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Sailors being sailors

Navy_Blue

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Listening to CBC this afternoon.  Wanted to smash the radio out of the dash.  I wish I had never experienced what the real navy was like.  Mind you it was the early 2000's and nothing as epic as the 70's 80's and 90's must have been like.  Every one I have talked with that was with me and has sailed since said HMCS Montreal's NATO in 2005 was the last time the navy was fun.  Sadly this link will confirm the cancer that is taking the last breaths out of something that has been my chosen career but so much more than that.  No one was charged by civi police, there was no rape, no murder, no drugs even.  Just a bunch of people blowing off steam and acting no different than many tourists in key west.  It breaks my heart.  :facepalm:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/story/2012/10/12/ns-drunken-sailors.html
 
Navy_Blue said:
Listening to CBC this afternoon.  Wanted to smash the radio out of the dash.  I wish I had never experienced what the real navy was like.  Mind you it was the early 2000's and nothing as epic as the 70's 80's and 90's must have been like.  Every one I have talked with that was with me and has sailed since said HMCS Montreal's NATO in 2005 was the last time the navy was fun.  Sadly this link will confirm the cancer that is taking the last breaths out of something that has been my chosen career but so much more than that.  No one was charged by civi police, there was no rape, no murder, no drugs even.  Just a bunch of people blowing off steam and acting no different than many tourists in key west.  It breaks my heart.  :facepalm:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/story/2012/10/12/ns-drunken-sailors.html

Unfortunately that's the way we're going these days. As long as no one got hurt and the uniform wasn't disgraced have fun.
 
Shockingly enough, the comments on the CBC are *for* the sailors/soldiers/air-people letting off some steam.  On the CBC.  :o
 
Dimsum said:
Shockingly enough, the comments on the CBC are *for* the sailors/soldiers/air-people letting off some steam.  On the CBC.  :o
The clustering of comments can sometimes be surprising.
 
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/story/2012/10/12/ns-drunken-sailors.html

Hilarious story... CBC is short on news again it seems...
 
More breaking news and in-depth reporting from CBC; our tax dollars hard at work.  ::)
 
5000 Yanks, Brits, Canucks, Francos and other assorted nationalities and only 14 incidents?  Weren't they trying?  Was it that miserable an exercise?
 
This is pretty disheartening to see based on my experiences in Key West three years in a row. Us fighter guys know how to have a good time. I could write a book about what went down on our nightly trips down Duval St during American Spring Break. It's an amazing place to be at any time of the year. Walking up and down the street with open alcohol (as long as it's in cans pr plastic cups) is pretty much allowed. People of all ages and life experiences mingling. We often stayed at the Truman Annex which was walking distance to the bar strip. There are a few nights I don't remember the walk home and I certainly was slumped on a stool a few times, but nothing serious. Despite our antics, we were tee-totallers compared to the often underage college kids passed out on the beach by 1300 with a keg of Bud Light.  If anything KW is quite open-minded and accepting of all the tourists that come. CBC at it's best quality reporting yet again...
 
That story was about as usefully informative as a story about conservation officers receiving reports of bears defecating in the woods. ::)
 
WeatherdoG said:
That story was about as usefully informative as a story about conservation officers receiving reports of bears defecating in the woods. ::)

Pure outrageous speculation; what happens in the woods stays in the woods. Bears are too smart to get caught by Conservation Officers.
 
cdnleaf said:
Pure outrageous speculation; what happens in the woods stays in the woods. Bears are too smart to get caught by Conservation Officers.

Apparently not:

Bear%20shitting%20in%20the%20woods.bmp
 
In my days, we had a sophisticated questionnaire developed specifically to deal with cops returning drunk sailors to a ship.

It went like this:

We asked the cop:

1- Was he in a fight?
2- Did he hurt anyone in any fashion?
3- Did he steal or break anything? and,
4- Can I expect any flak from a local politician, official or important citizen concerning their daughter?

Unless the answer to any of these questtions was a yes, we just  "put them in the long boat till ..."
 
I am not sure if this is still being done but a couple years ago when I was on a Great Lakes trip, the job of the FP Chief first night in was to pay a visit to the local constabulary with a nominal role of the ship's company as well as a cell phone number to a cell phone ONLY the FP Chief carried. Admitedly a pain in the a** getting woken at 4 am to bail someone out, it beat the alternative for the individual and therefore the ship as a whole.  Though there were a few disciplinary issues, they were all handled internally and there was no harm done.
On another note, I recall getting a ride from the Boston Police once when myself and another buddy were found in a 'no-no' zone wandering aimlessly!

Pat
 
I have found that as time goes on the official attitude towards blowing off steam has become more of "Billy Graham Crusade" more often than not.  Work hard, play hard has pretty much been killed off.  Now it's just work hard, work hard and be good little children.
 
jollyjacktar said:
I have found that as time goes on the official attitude towards blowing off steam has become more of "Billy Graham Crusade" more often than not.  Work hard, play hard has pretty much been killed off.  Now it's just work hard, work hard and be good little children.

Agreed...sadly morale is being eroded more and more with each day and nothing is being done to stop it. :/
 
Ex-Dragoon said:
Agreed...sadly morale is being eroded more and more with each day and nothing is being done to stop it. :/
I firmly don't believe they give a damn about the morale.  Image is everything and god forbid there is a whiff of scandal to any degree.  That's what they care about now.  Image.
 
jollyjacktar said:
I firmly don't believe they give a damn about the morale.  Image is everything and god forbid there is a whiff of scandal to any degree.  That's what they care about now.  Image.


You are quite right, except fr the use of the word "now." It was the same in 1945 when the political and military pond scum in Ottawa laid off the blame for the Halifax "riots" in RAdm Murray - who was the most significant Canadian military leader in all of our history, and, yes, I include, Frontenac, Wolf, Brock, de Saliberry, Otter and Currie. The issue then, as now, was image.

The media, whose ignorance in as boundless as its arrogance, is all powerful and admirals and generals, like their political masters, quake before its power.  But the politicians and generals are wrong: the people don't care. A few will cluck about "sailors being sailors" but it will not change their votes in the next election, nor will an unfortunate barroom brawl in a friendly foreign port cause the PCO, Finance and the Treasury Board to cut the Navy's budget. But the brawl will "embarrass the minister" and that has become a mortal sin. And therein lies a serious, moral, problem for leaders ~ while no one should go out looking for ways to embarrass the minister, or anyone else, for that matter, commanders, at all levels, must be, as Murray was in 1945, loyal both up and down the chain - as loyal to the men and women under their command as they are to those who have authority over them. Thus while we ought not to embarrass the minister we, equally, ought not to severely punish our people for matters of little consequence.

But, since embarrassing the minister is now sufficient to consign one to the ninth circle of hell it will decide who will or will not get promoted to commodore or admiral so captains and commodores will do the wrong things for the wrong reasons.

When sailors break the rules ship's captains have adequate powers of punishment; if breaches of discipline are rare, as I'm guessing they are, it is none of the media's business and the correct reaction when a reporter asks is to say "fuck off, rude message follows" "this matter has been resolved to the satisfaction of the chain of command by the Code of Service Discipline; when sailors make mistakes corrective measures are available and are used." If there are too many breaches then commodores and admirals need to look at how they select captains and coxsains and, probably, at the captain and coxswain of the ships having the problems.

Discipline matters, it is what sets sailors (and soldiers) apart from thugs; but so does morale and commanders must recognize that the two go hand in hand; "sailors being sailors," every now and again, is, probably, a fairly healthy thing that tells commanders that the constant trade offs that are characteristic of getting (any) people to do (any) things are in balance. Too many incidents may tell us that something is wrong, maybe leadership, maybe taskings ... but I would suggest that a Navy or Army full of "Goody two-shoes" types cannot cope with the real stresses and strains of battle.
 
Ex-Dragoon said:
Agreed...sadly morale is being eroded more and more with each day and nothing is being done to stop it. :/
I'll add another morale killer is the coming penny pinching.  That will and has crossed all lines, arms and branches of the CF.  Right now for the Fleet what is killing morale for the HFX, CAL and soon FRE is the lack of sea pay upon coming out of the yard.  I know, I know sea pay and duty watches are not "connected", however, the guys are cheesed at standing frequent watches and doing all the extra work that comes with coming out of refit without the previous benefits of return of sea pay.  Especially when HFX and CAL have been out of their respective yards since June and there's no end in sight.

There are some other issues as well, but I won't speak of them in public.  Excellent post BTW E.R.  :salute:
 
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