RPAS (was JUSTAS): the project to buy armed Medium Altitude Long Endurance (MALE) UAVs

[Eye In The Sky]

I attended a pretty detailed briefing on RPAS late last week; the timeline to IOC & FOC has been and will be mostly influenced by government (in)decision and funding "challenges/realities".

If the wheels on this one don't exactly go "round and round"...I wouldn't be overly critical of RCAF personnel involved.

 

[dapaterson]

Exactly. If you want to criticize RCAF / ADM Mat, there are other projects to choose from.

 

[Good2Golf]

Exactly. If you want to criticize RCAF / ADM Mat, there are lots of other projects to choose from.

…and I see they misspelled ‘TCR Round 2’…

 

[kev994]

IIRC for the Heron contract circa 2008/2009 it was about a year between the contract being signed and the aircraft being flown in theatre.

 

[dapaterson]

UoR vs regular procurement.

 

[SupersonicMax]

UoR vs regular procurement.

Can we make the Kingfisher replacement a UoR?

 

[dapaterson]

No long term sustainment plan? That's one of the many UOR tradeoffs. Not a great idea from an airworthiness perspective.

Better to ask where the problems came from and ensure they don't get repeated.


Almost as if buying off the shelf (Herc-J, C-17) doesn't end up a disaster (Cyclone, Kingfisher...).

 

[Good2Golf]

IIRC for the Heron contract circa 2008/2009 it was about a year between the contract being signed and the aircraft being flown in theatre.

And eight months for CH-147Ds after the FMS sale to Canada.

Almost as if buying off the shelf (Herc-J, C-17) doesn't end up a disaster (Cyclone, Kingfisher...).

…or off someone else’s ‘almost finished’ shelf, then scoop them with the first purchase without their last little bits.

 

[SupersonicMax]

No long term sustainment plan? That's one of the many UOR tradeoffs. Not a great idea from an airworthiness perspective.

Better to ask where the problems came from and ensure they don't get repeated.


Almost as if buying off the shelf (Herc-J, C-17) doesn't end up a disaster (Cyclone, Kingfisher...).

Tell me how the Kingfisher is going from an airworthiness perspective again?

 

[dapaterson]

Tell me how its going from the perspective of requirements definition by pilots and AERE officers, and how they'd do a better job on a UOR?

 

[SeaKingTacco]

Tell me how the Kingfisher is going from an airworthiness perspective again?

It is not.

 

[SupersonicMax]

Tell me how its going from the perspective of requirements definition by pilots and AERE officers, and how they'd do a better job on a UOR?

You need people directly working with what you want to buy to decide what you need. You need a procurement person to translate those needs into procurement speak. The process works relatively well (albeit slowly) until you have political interference….

 

[Good2Golf]

The process works relatively well (albeit slowly) until you have political interference…

 

[dapaterson]

If you abandon requirements after minor pushback instead of better articulation of the requirements to explain them to ISED, PSPC and other participants, that's on you, not on the system.

If you refuse to ever use the tools in your contract and instead let your vendor always deliver late from their hangars in Halifax and jack up prices as well, you don't have political problems, you have contract management problems.

 

[Weinie]

If you abandon requirements after minor pushback instead of better articulation of the requirements to explain them to ISED, PSPC and other participants, that's on you, not on the system.

If you refuse to ever use the tools in your contract and instead let your vendor always deliver late from their hangars in Halifax and jack up prices as well, you don't have political problems, you have contract management problems.

There is a non-zero chance that well-timed phone calls didn't influence the political, which influenced contract management.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

There is a non-zero chance that well-timed phone calls didn't influence the political, which influenced contract management.

@dapaterson If, hypothetically, the DoJ lawyers refuse to enforce the contract because various Ministers get phone calls and we get ordered to accept product ”as is”, tell me again how this is the CAF’s fault?

All hypothetically, of course.

 

[Weinie]

@dapaterson If, hypothetically, the DoJ lawyers refuse to enforce the contract because various Ministers get phone calls and we get ordered to accept product ”as is”, tell me again how this is the CAF’s fault?

All hypothetically, of course.

Snort.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

Snort.

What? It was a thought experiment. Nothing more…

 

[dapaterson]

@dapaterson If, hypothetically, the DoJ lawyers refuse to enforce the contract because various Ministers get phone calls and we get ordered to accept product ”as is”, tell me again how this is the CAF’s fault?

All hypothetically, of course.

Then you file a bar complaint.

But if ADM Mat staff behave more like employees of the contractor than representatives of the public (see also: MSP) you have these sorts of problems.

 

[Weinie]

What? It was a thought experiment. Nothing more…

And so was my snort.