RPAS (was JUSTAS): the project to buy armed Medium Altitude Long Endurance (MALE) UAVs

[Underway]

Is there an operational logic for controlling them from Ottawa? I would think an actual operational location would make more sense.

As @dimsum pointed out closer to where their information will have an impact. These are not tactical assets, they are strategic ones, and strategic decisions are usually made from Ottawa. I suspect Ottawa has the pre-exisiting infrastructure to support the farm needed to fly them once they are purchased. The location basing will vary.

 

[Infanteer]

Is there an operational logic for controlling them from Ottawa? I would think an actual operational location would make more sense.

The platform is not "theatre specific" in that you could fly it from one theatre to another theatre, supporting various missions. So shipping control stations to a theatre location where it may not even be used doesn't make much sense. Some sort of control station near CJOC and CANSOFCOM's operating centres make sense.

 

[CBH99]

Is there an operational logic for controlling them from Ottawa? I would think an actual operational location would make more sense.

And from the 'colour me shocked department', the NDP is against them:

NDP doesn't support military purchase of armed drones

NDP Leader Jagmeet Singh says Canada's military should be focused on peacekeeping and he doesn't back a plan for the Canadian Armed Forces to buy military drones. The federal government is planning to launch a formal bidding contest to buy such drones this fall.

ca.news.yahoo.com

The NDP is the same party who ACTUALLY brought forth a motion to debate whether they should disband the entire armed forces, at their last meeting.

On the grounds that 'the world is safer and no longer needing militaries, many other countries are also disbanding their militaries, and bad guys won't do bad things if we change the wording on one of our foreign policies.'


My goodness... not to get political. But between the Liberals doing their woke, snobby nonsense. The NDP being like your super friendly neighbour who is retired, very nice, tends to her garden, and is always high, the PQ (which as an Alberta guy, doesn't exist) - and the Conservatives having a leader that most Canadians couldn't point out in a group photo...

 

[dimsum]

The NDP is the same party who ACTUALLY brought forth a motion to debate whether they should disband the entire armed forces, at their last meeting.

I thought it was just a motion that some random NDP member asked, and they specifically said they weren't going to discuss?

 

[CBH99]

Oh, looks like you are right.

I was under the impression that it was being brought forward as a motion for them to debate at their meeting, by one of their MP's. I hadn't heard of the follow-up.


My bad

 

[Eye In The Sky]

At the same time, preparations are underway so the military is ready to begin using the unmanned aerial vehicles when they start to arrive in the next three to four years. That includes plans to establish a central hub in Ottawa where pilots will fly the drones.

 

[lenaitch]

Close to the decision-makers.

I will assume you meant that as a good thing.

 

[Loachman]

The US operates UAVs from Vegas. As long as you're in satellite range, physical location is irrelevant from a purely physical perspective.

They operated them from KAF as well, as engaging moving targets via satellite link doesn't work very well because of the two-way signal delay.

Very nice GCS, too. Much, much, much better than what we had,

 

[dimsum]

They operated them from KAF as well, as engaging moving targets via satellite link doesn't work very well because of the two-way signal delay.

Very nice GCS, too. Much, much, much better than what we had,

By the time I was there, they definitely did not do that anymore. Missions were run out of Vegas, landings and takeoffs out of KAF.

From what I've read, the latest generations of RPAS don't even need the local landing/takeoff crews - everything now run from one place in the world.

 

[NavyShooter]

 

[Gorgo]

If they're going to hook in head-mounted VR control tech to the UAV controls, I can seriously see this happening.

 

[dimsum]

If they're going to hook in head-mounted VR control tech to the UAV controls, I can seriously see this happening.

Or even manned aircraft.

The Air Force's Virtual Reality Fighter Training Is Working Best for 5th-Gen Pilots

The Air Force is finding that virtual reality fighter pilot training is working best for students who want to fly the most advanced stealth platforms.

www.military.com

 

[Fabius]

Our CAOC is in Winnipeg though. All our airspace operations are controlled from there as far as I know.
Why not locate the GCS there? Makes more sense than Ottawa.

Having a GCS close to Ottawa because that’s where decisions ultimately are made is pure nonsense in today’s age of fibre optic and sat data transfer and comms.

 

[SupersonicMax]

Our CAOC is in Winnipeg though. All our airspace operations are controlled from there as far as I know.
Why not locate the GCS there? Makes more sense than Ottawa.

Having a GCS close to Ottawa because that’s where decisions ultimately are made is pure nonsense in today’s age of fibre optic and sat data transfer and comms.

Not too many people will sign up for this job if it’s in Winnipeg. It could literally be anywhere. Put it somewhere where it is attractive for people to live.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

Not too many people will sign up for this job if it’s in Winnipeg. It could literally be anywhere. Put it somewhere where it is attractive for people to live.

Compared to Cold Lake, Winnipeg is attractive (I would also happily live in Cold Lake. I am that kind of guy…)

 

[CBH99]

Where would the ideal place be, and why?

Does the GCS need to be located at an already existing airbase? (I am guessing not since Ottawa is a suggested option.)


(Curious to hear various opinions from those still in, or those with experience)

 

[kev994]

Where would the ideal place be, and why?

Does the GCS need to be located at an already existing airbase? (I am guessing not since Ottawa is a suggested option.)


(Curious to hear various opinions from those still in, or those with experience)

In Kandahar it was literally at the side of the runway. Decisions were made on the other side of the base. It can be annoying to have the decision makers in the flight deck, so somewhere far enough that people aren’t constantly dropping in would be great.

 

[Ostrozac]

Not too many people will sign up for this job if it’s in Winnipeg. It could literally be anywhere. Put it somewhere where it is attractive for people to live.

The entire CAF are approaching the point where this question does indeed to be asked for every new capability, as well as many existing capabilities. Now I’m not saying that Winnipeg‘s a perfect city, but it is considerably more affordable than Ottawa.

The institution doesn’t want to deal with this question — see the mismanagement of the PLD file and the stillbirth of ’The Journey’. But we are going to be forced to deal with this by demographics and economics. If we have large bases in places where Privates and Corporals cannot afford to live, they will quit and/or not join in the first place.

But if Winnipeg is too crime ridden and Ottawa too expensive — what bases do we have left that are legitimate candidates for expansion? I took a look at a list of the 20 most affordable cities in Canada, and the only one of those cities that has a major CAF facility is St Jean, Quebec.

Is that the answer? Operating UAVs out of the Mega seems properly futuristic and maybe we can move our recruit training somewhere with fresh air.

 

[SupersonicMax]

The entire CAF are approaching the point where this question does indeed to be asked for every new capability, as well as many existing capabilities. Now I’m not saying that Winnipeg‘s a perfect city, but it is considerably more affordable than Ottawa.

The institution doesn’t want to deal with this question — see the mismanagement of the PLD file and the stillbirth of ’The Journey’. But we are going to be forced to deal with this by demographics and economics. If we have large bases in places where Privates and Corporals cannot afford to live, they will quit and/or not join in the first place.

But if Winnipeg is too crime ridden and Ottawa too expensive — what bases do we have left that are legitimate candidates for expansion? I took a look at a list of the 20 most affordable cities in Canada, and the only one of those cities that has a major CAF facility is St Jean, Quebec.

Is that the answer? Operating UAVs out of the Mega seems properly futuristic and maybe we can move our recruit training somewhere with fresh air.

Why do you need to constrain yourself to an Air Force base or a base at all?

 

[Ostrozac]

Why do you need to constrain yourself to an Air Force base or a base at all?

That’s a fair point. So long as there’s sufficient power and bandwidth, an office park could be bought, and an RCAF flag flown in front. And now we have 23 Wing — or CFS Brockville/Sarnia/Prince George... I’m open to suggestions on location.