Retire from CAF and entering Fed PS [Merged]

[meni0n]

25 pages of jobs here in the BC public service FYI. https://search.employment.gov.bc.ca/cgi-bin/a/alljobs.cgi. I assume other provinces have a similar way of posting jobs.

My experience has been that they will usually look at education, then experience, in comparing applicants for most jobs so, if your education isn't up to speed, you'll automatically be shuffled to the bottom of the deck. Especially during a time like now where downturns in various industries make a guv'mint job look more attractive.

All of my experience is with the Federal Public Service job site. The thing is that most of the internal job postings have lower education requirements and most of the ones I applied for were mostly high school. From what I understand is that you're supposed to get some kind of answer for internal applications so it's been kind of disheartening not hearing back from any of the postings, even though I tend to apply to job postings where my experience fits the requirements and I got a professionally drafted cv. The only conclusion I can draw is that a lot of the HR departments are ignoring the new legislation with regards to the hiring of veterans and canadian forces personnel.

 

[Jed]

All of my experience is with the Federal Public Service job site. The thing is that most of the internal job postings have lower education requirements and most of the ones I applied for were mostly high school. From what I understand is that you're supposed to get some kind of answer for internal applications so it's been kind of disheartening not hearing back from any of the postings, even though I tend to apply to job postings where my experience fits the requirements and I got a professionally drafted cv. The only conclusion I can draw is that a lot of the HR departments are ignoring the new legislation with regards to the hiring of veterans and canadian forces personnel.

I agree with your conclusion.  Probably through ignorance as opposed to willful disobedience.

 

[daftandbarmy]

I agree with your conclusion.  Probably through ignorance as opposed to willful disobedience.

Suggestion: send a copy of their own legislation with your resume.

 

[Lightguns]

I agree with your conclusion.  Probably through ignorance as opposed to willful disobedience.

Concur, 17 applications, seven of which didn't even ack my application. 

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

It's civil service protectionism.  They care about seniority, not qualifications.  I've been part of a hiring board in Kingston and what the HR people will do for more senior level jobs is build an internal hiring pool from existing civil servants already working in the area. 

My suggestion, if you actually want to work for the government, apply for an entry level job then once you're in, begin searching for better jobs.  If you've got education though, why not look towards the private sector?

 

[The Bread Guy]

Just throwing something out there as just a tiny cog in a big bureaucratic wheel:  is hiring of veterans on any DM's or senior official's "get a bonus" list?  I certainly see sustained action, say, for the United Way Campaign.

If someone's bonus was linked to hiring veterans, even to REASONABLY considering vets, things could happen.

Or am I being WAY to cynical for a Monday morning?

My suggestion, if you actually want to work for the government, apply for an entry level job then once you're in, begin searching for better jobs.

Based on my experience with the feds, I agree.  Not only do you get government experience, you get easier access to a lot more job postings, as well as the "institutional cultural knowledge" to help you have an easier time on the competitions.

 

[Lightguns]

I am in DND right now, but I would like to enter the belly of the beast, The Canadian Firearms Programs as a "hated" Firearms Officer for a few years to further my understanding of the beast. 

 

[mariomike]

Based on my experience with the feds, I agree.  Not only do you get government experience, you get easier access to a lot more job postings, as well as the "institutional cultural knowledge" to help you have an easier time on the competitions.

Not sure if all employers and all unions operate this way, depends on the collective agreement.

But, if applying for a union job, this may be something for job hunters to consider,

For Job Postings within the Local, qualified members of the Local are called first from the Senior Qualified list in order of seniority.

When that list is exhausted, HR calls from the general open-competitive list.

 

[The Bread Guy]

I am in DND right now, but I would like to enter the belly of the beast, The Canadian Firearms Programs as a "hated" Firearms Officer for a few years to further my understanding of the beast.

From what little I've heard from a few folk who've worked at the Firearms Centre, the "customer response" to program staff in that area could sometimes be a bit ... harsh.  That may have changed a bit now that it appears to be under the RCMP's wing.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

One of the guys in the Lab is a avid gun collector and a few of the CFO staff are decent and like firearms. One of my assistants went to the Surrey Centre and from her I heard that staffing was terrible and they were short handed. I found the office staff out here in BC decent to deal with, always helps to treat people nicely. But it is a program designed from the ground up to punish and discourage gun ownership, so your best efforts are undone by policy and legislation. 

 

[Rheostatic]

All of my experience is with the Federal Public Service job site. The thing is that most of the internal job postings have lower education requirements and most of the ones I applied for were mostly high school. From what I understand is that you're supposed to get some kind of answer for internal applications so it's been kind of disheartening not hearing back from any of the postings, even though I tend to apply to job postings where my experience fits the requirements and I got a professionally drafted cv.

If you're applying to internal jobs then you get an automatic acknowledgement of your application. Beyond that, every posting has a listed point of contact that you can speak to get an update on the status of your application.

Your "profesionally-crafted CV" won't do you much good if it's not tailored to the Public Service.

The only conclusion I can draw is that a lot of the HR departments are ignoring the new legislation with regards to the hiring of veterans and canadian forces personnel.

Did you draw this conclusion after speaking to the point of contact listed on the job advertisement? If you were eliminated from a hiring process for the wrong reasons, You should complain through the proper channels to fix the problem.

The other possibility is that the hiring process is slow and still ongoing. I've been through hiring processes that lasted about two years. I thought I must have been eliminated, but each time I emailed the HR contact, they replied that the applications were still being processed.

 

[Rheostatic]

Concur, 17 applications, seven of which didn't even ack my application.

For every application I've submitted I've received a response like this:

This message acknowledges that an application for the advertisement with selection process number ##### has been submitted to the Public Service Staffing Advertisements & Notifications system at TIME on DATE.

Your application has been automatically stamped with the date and time of submission.

The Human Resource contact identified on the staffing notification will be notified of your application.  Any questions concerning this staffing action should be directed to the Human Resource contact.

Thank you for participating in the Online Application process.

 

[meni0n]

I've looked at http://www.psc-cfp.gc.ca/plcy-pltq/frame-cadre/policy-politique/index-eng.htm and it states that for internal hiring:

13. Inform persons eliminated from consideration for internal appointment processes of the decision to eliminate them, following which they may request informal discussion.

I can tell you this hasn't happened in about 80% of all the applications I've done internally. I never get acknowledgment except on jobs.gc.ca application status.

 

[Rheostatic]

That's unfortunate (but not surprising). It's still true that there is an HR person designated to answer your questions about why you were eliminated.

 

[daftandbarmy]

I've looked at http://www.psc-cfp.gc.ca/plcy-pltq/frame-cadre/policy-politique/index-eng.htm and it states that for internal hiring:

13. Inform persons eliminated from consideration for internal appointment processes of the decision to eliminate them, following which they may request informal discussion.

I can tell you this hasn't happened in about 80% of all the applications I've done internally. I never get acknowledgment except on jobs.gc.ca application status.

Everything happens for a reason. The Public Sector is not the only game in town. Lots of private firms everywhere need good people, now. Try that...

 

[meni0n]

I know but that would mean losing 13+ years of pension contributions and the possibility of early retirement.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

You could take a leave of absence, work privately for a bit and then come back.

 

[meni0n]

I am really close to a being put on a pcat so I am just being proactive by trying to find something right now so that I don't get left without any employment.

 

[daftandbarmy]

You could take a leave of absence, work privately for a bit and then come back.

Bingo! 

 

[CampCricket]

I did 25 years in the military and now have an indeterminate position doing what I did in uniform as a civilian. Your best opportunities come from being added to hiring pools. That's how I got in. Positions they hire for that are one of... they usually have someone in mind and arrange the competition or hiring process to bring aboard the preferred candidate. Have watched that happen for over 10 years from my civilian position.

My spouse was a medical release with a priority hire and he was dicked around for 2 years. They would invite him to test for competitions but this was mostly procedural. They already knew the candidate they wanted to hire and went through the hiring process to cover their butts. He was even told he was not qualified to do a position at the base where he held the military equivalent position for 5 years before is release because they wanted someone else... and disqualified him based on the fact they would not consider or placed a greater level of qualifications with the individual with college accreditation. So a DND position blowing off military training that was equivalent or better.

Same with me... I was eliminated from an internal position that would have been a leteral move only - because a key word was missing from my resume... but it appeared in my cover letter. They had some one with 6 months experience in mind that they liked so went out of their way to devalue my 12 years. Also been denied work assignments because supervisors don't want to loose someone with my skills or experience so they wont allow me to progress in my civilian career.

So,basically it comes down to who you know as to whether or not you get placed. But you can slip in if they hire a few people at once and need a qualified pool of people to pick from - or you are willing to take term positions and float around until they hire you.