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Retire from CAF and entering Fed PS [Merged]

NightSins said:
Avoid applying for pools. Hiring managers already know who they want to hire when they establish a pool. This doesn't mean you are SOL but the odds are not in your favour. On the flip side, if you qualify in a pool as a FB-03 for example, another hiring manager from a different department or section can straight up hire you assuming the criteria for that position is similar hint: network with managers and let them know you are qualified as x and y in pool ABC.

How does one do that? I currently work on mainly internal projects, in a small team and get very limited to people outside of my Team let alone organization. I am qualified in another pool already, but I don't expect to see an offer from that department.

I don't want to be that guy who is just emailing hiring managers, the only time I've really networked with a hiring manager  was when I was informed that I didn't have enough experience (Time) and thus was screened out.
 
Can I ask just what constitutes a "Public Service" job? Is it any other Federal Government department? What about Provincial? Is CBSA a "Public Service" job?
 
NightSins said:
Avoid applying for pools. Hiring managers already know who they want to hire when they establish a pool. This doesn't mean you are SOL but the odds are not in your favour. On the flip side, if you qualify in a pool as a FB-03 for example, another hiring manager from a different department or section can straight up hire you assuming the criteria for that position is similar hint: network with managers and let them know you are qualified as x and y in pool ABC.

I would advise applying for anything you can.  It makes for good practice and if you can get feedback.  About pools, you should apply for them.  A lot of hiring managers will know about the pools and encourage their people to apply in order to pick them up or put them where they want, sure but, a lot of jobs will never be advertised and hiring managers will be told to go to older still valid pools to hire.  So while you might not get picked up immediately you can get picked up later.
 
Occam said:
Read the competition poster several times.  Make a checklist of every essential criteria listed, and ensure you address how you meet every single one of them right in the cover letter.  If you're equating military experience to a civilian requirement, go into detail how that equivalency works.
I've gone as far as doing a point-by-point grid outlining how my experience matches specifically with each essential criterion for the screeners - I've attached a rough template as a start.  When I get home, I'll find one I did for a competition and share that to show what a completed one looks like.

Also, make it as easy for the screener to match the tasks you did in the military or previous jobs to the criteria - here's a link to a Google Search for "military skills translators" to help you convert mil-speak to plain, civvy English.
 

Attachments

[:D

milnews.ca said:
Also, make it as easy for the screener to match the tasks you did in the military or previous jobs to the criteria - here's a link to a Google Search for "military skills translators" to help you convert mil-speak to plain, civvy English.

For easy access to what the CAF has provided, translating rank and Trade terms into "Civilian"; try this link:

George Wallace said:
You may find this link useful:

http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/business-reservist-support/tools-resume-writing-guide.page
 
NightSins said:
Avoid applying for pools. Hiring managers already know who they want to hire when they establish a pool. This doesn't mean you are SOL but the odds are not in your favour. On the flip side, if you qualify in a pool as a FB-03 for example, another hiring manager from a different department or section can straight up hire you assuming the criteria for that position is similar hint: network with managers and let them know you are qualified as x and y in pool ABC.

I second the "apply for pools". While many pools are to fill entry level positions (CR-04/05, AS-01), this is a great way to get started. Typically, the Essential Qualifications they are looking for are minimal (secondary school education completed, word processing experience, etc.), and IT GETS YOUR FOOT IN THE DOOR. Plus, the pools are often for more than one area within a department, and will be dipped into by more than one hiring manager.

VAC has two or three pools currently advertised, and they cover English Essential and Various Linguistic Profiles. If you are bilingual, whatever your B's and C's, apply to both pools. No harm in trying.

Lumber said:
Can I ask just what constitutes a "Public Service" job? Is it any other Federal Government department? What about Provincial? Is CBSA a "Public Service" job?

There is the Federal Public Service (i.e., Federal government-wise), and a provincial public service. CBSA is a Public Service employer, at the Federal level.

The big thing, and the FPS makes this very clear in the job poster, is the cover letter. The CV/résumé is actually a small piece of the pie. The cover letter is used to assess your written communication skills and will be used to screen you in (or out) based on how well you have outlined your experience, and how said experience meets the given criterion in the Essential and/or Asset Qualifications.
 
blackberet17 said:
The big thing, and the FPS makes this very clear in the job poster, is the cover letter. The CV/résumé is actually a small piece of the pie. The cover letter is used to assess your written communication skills and will be used to screen you in (or out) based on how well you have outlined your experience, and how said experience meets the given criterion in the Essential and/or Asset Qualifications.

How long is the cover letter generally? Does it ever go longer than 1 page?
 
mariomike said:
As this is the VAC forum, this discussion may also be helpful,

Priority Hiring in the Federal Public Service 
http://army.ca/forums/threads/41696.125.html
6 pages.
Good point - merged to bring all the tips/news/info together.
 
Lumber said:
How long is the cover letter generally? Does it ever go longer than 1 page?

Yep. Don't get tied up in the conventions of a cover page being X length.

Have a look at the current poster for positions with VAC: https://emploisfp-psjobs.cfp-psc.gc.ca/psrs-srfp/applicant/page1800?poster=924740

Look at the heading "In order to be considered, your application must clearly explain how you meet the following (essential qualifications)". Under this heading, there are six Essential Qualifications:

1) Education: Successful completion of a secondary school diploma or an acceptable combination of education, training and/or experience;
2) Experience in planning and organizing meetings, workshops or special events;
3) Experience in preparing correspondence and drafting reports;
4) Experience with a word processing program such as Microsoft Word;
5) Experience providing information to internal or external clients in person, in writing and/or by telephone;
6) Experience in providing administrative support services.

For each one of those criteria, you want to write out exactly how and why you meet the criterion. Provide concrete examples, with dates, time frames, where you were working, for whom. What I do, so it's clear for the hiring manager, is I built my cover letters to have headings and subheadings, then my examples:

ESSENTIAL QUALIFICATIONS

Education:

Ed1 - Successful completion of a secondary school diploma or an acceptable combination of education, training and/or experience.

I have successfully completed secondary school.

I graduated from Fictitious Secondary School, in Fictitious Town, QC, in June 1993, with my secondary school diploma.

I hold a Bachelor of Fiction from the Fictitious University of Fictitious Town, Class of 1998, with Majors in Fiction and Non-Fiction.

Experience:

E1 - Experience in planning and organizing meetings, workshops or special events;

I have experience in planning and organizing meetings, workshops or special events.

Example 1:
As the Adjutant for B Squadron, Royal Tankers United, from September 2012 to June 2015, I planned weekly meetings for the Senior Leadership. These meetings were held every Friday at 1500hrs, to plan and discuss the following week's training events. I prepared an e-mail reminder and sent it to all stakeholders every Wednesday, and created an agenda attached to the e-mail. I booked the meeting room, reserved and setup the LCD projector, and prepared all written submissions for the meeting.

Example 2:
As the President of the Mess Committee for the Garrison Officers Mess, I planned the Change of Command Dinner for the Armour School Change of Command in June 2015.

And then I would go on to detail everything required in planning, organizing, etc., for the dinner.

I do not hesitate to add more than one example. This shows the breadth and depth of the experience acquired, and how I meet each criterion.

So if there are six criterion, or even just three and they are asking for examples, you will easily go past one page. Any of my cover letters these days are rarely under two pages. The longest one, I think, was eight pages. Applicants had to detail how they met all of the qualifications listed, both Essential and Asset...

I cannot emphasize enough: read the instructions in the poster carefully. For example, under "Information you must provide", it clearly states:

It is your responsibility to provide appropriate examples that illustrate how you meet each qualification. Failing to do so could result in your application being rejected.

I have seen too many people skip writing a cover letter, or saying simply, "Please see my attached résumé."

As someone who has again been on both sides of the table, candidate and hiring committee member, if I see "Please see attached", you're in the rejected pile before you can say bang.
 
lot's of good advice here, also google the branch/department and see if you can pick up some useful info. Certainly helps if you get to the interview stage.
 
runormal said:
How does one do that? I currently work on mainly internal projects, in a small team and get very limited to people outside of my Team let alone organization. I am qualified in another pool already, but I don't expect to see an offer from that department.

I don't want to be that guy who is just emailing hiring managers, the only time I've really networked with a hiring manager  was when I was informed that I didn't have enough experience (Time) and thus was screened out.

What are you doing after work?

I got my gig by googling professional associations in my field within Ottawa.  I attended one of Thier social events and things started happening from there.

I asked a colleague today how she got in and she said info on reddit helped her get in touch with someone which opened up some back channels. 

My spouse was hired the first time after her college placement . She did the agency thing and after the 2x 90 day contracts a competition for a pool was posted for her position.  When we returned to Ottawa she applied to an inventory and was picked up by her previous department and she  attributes it to a simple LinkedIn friend request to her previous director.

Again what are you doing after work?  You may not have the opportunity to network at work so you'll need to create it. If you have a specific background like computer science there's so many opportunities out there. However, if you're rocking a high school diploma with general work experience you need to be that guy and create your opportunities to stand out among the 1000's of other applicants.  I honestly can't say how to network for cr or generalized admin support positions.

Pm me your email and I'll send you a contact who can review your cv and provide priceless feedback.
 
milnews.ca said:
I've gone as far as doing a point-by-point grid outlining how my experience matches specifically with each essential criterion for the screeners - I've attached a rough template as a start.  When I get home, I'll find one I did for a competition and share that to show what a completed one looks like.
As promised, attached find a sample one I prepared as an example & shared years ago for a job opening at Indian Affairs, with (what used to be called) Statement of Qualification - you can use Essential Qualifications now - on one side, and how the candidate fit in the other.  As I look at it again with fresh eyes, I'd draw even more from these military translators for descriptions (thanks, George, for the CF one - I _DID_ miss your earlier post  :P):
You may find this link useful:

http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/business-reservist-support/tools-resume-writing-guide.page
milnews.ca said:
Also, make it as easy for the screener to match the tasks you did in the military or previous jobs to the criteria - here's a link to a Google Search for "military skills translators" to help you convert mil-speak to plain, civvy English.
I'm also attaching my LinkedIn profile to show how I've "plain languaged" my various job experiences.
 

Attachments

NightSins said:
What are you doing after work?

I got my gig by googling professional associations in my field within Ottawa.  I attended one of Thier social events and things started happening from there.

I asked a colleague today how she got in and she said info on reddit helped her get in touch with someone which opened up some back channels. 

My spouse was hired the first time after her college placement . She did the agency thing and after the 2x 90 day contracts a competition for a pool was posted for her position.  When we returned to Ottawa she applied to an inventory and was picked up by her previous department and she  attributes it to a simple LinkedIn friend request to her previous director.

Again what are you doing after work?  You may not have the opportunity to network at work so you'll need to create it. If you have a specific background like computer science there's so many opportunities out there. However, if you're rocking a high school diploma with general work experience you need to be that guy and create your opportunities to stand out among the 1000's of other applicants.  I honestly can't say how to network for cr or generalized admin support positions.

Pm me your email and I'll send you a contact who can review your cv and provide priceless feedback.

This is excellent advice thanks. I should get on with networking, I have a contact within the main professional organization for my field and I'll send her an email later. After work right now I'm practicing my French and doing physical training. But yes I agree I need to network more. Likewise I should put some effort into my LinkedIn profile as it is pretty poor at the moment. .

For me I've got a university degree, French (results TBD). I've been pretty lucky I got a student contract in the middle of my third year of my undergrad and it continued until I graduated. So I have about 2 years experience (in time, I.e 12 months full time, 12 months part time or 1.5 year in terms of time in a chair). I'm currently employed there on casual contract. There are talks of extensions, but I'll believe that when I see it.  I've recently updated my resume for a job that I just applied to, but I'm going to work on it this weekend and then I'll send it over to you.

Of the jobs I've applied it has been going fairly well, but I need to take time to plain talk my work experience especially the "Army work" as this is where I struggle the most (I either withhold information because I feel it is too complicated to explain, or I try and explain but haven't thought about it before hand and look/sound like an idiot). The resume again is something I've never "needed" to update because I've only ever had three jobs (Army, Grocery Store and my one job with the government, that luckily kept on being extended). I did get it "built" by someone within the industry when I was a second year student, but she advised to keep it short and to the point (private sector), and I hadn't really needed to update it until now :cold:.

Now that school is done and my future employment is uncertain I need to have this sorted by the end of the month..

Thanks again to everyone for all of the advice this has been an excellent thread to find.

Cheers,


 
Please, please don't spend all your time responding to job ads or drafting and redrafting and redrafting resumes.

You will always be more likely to get a job through making personal connections with actual human beings. Sadly, because we are in our own 'social silo', military people tend to come with a civvy social network disability.

This can be easily fixed in a variety of ways some of which are a lot of fun.
 
milnews.ca said:
I'm also attaching my LinkedIn profile to show how I've "plain languaged" my various job experiences.

"Tony is organized, efficient, extremely competent, and has an excellent rapport."

That important "likeability" factor.  :)

"...Tony is always eager to share what he knows and to help others be better communicators."

Sometimes, people who quietly help others don't always get the credit they deserve.  :salute:


 
Thanks for the kind words, but you don't know if I solicited those endorsements or not  ;D
 
I can confirm that if you don't anyone, you would be hard pressed in getting any sort of response. Out of 22 positions I've applied for internally, I had 2 processes that I moved along to the testing stage (DND and RCMP), 3 that responded I didn't fulfill an essential qualification and the rest no communication whatsoever. I had better luck applying for external positions where I had a few interviews.
 
Gunplumber said:
So I have applied for a bunch of PS jobs over the last year and have not been successful. I applied to one in November and in April they asked for more information and a few weeks later I was told I didn't make the cut. It was a job that I had lots of experience in both in the Military and Civilian life and I really want to contest this one as I am getting the feeling that I am not getting it as I am Military, just wanted to find out what steps I should take to complain about this?
If you're still a CF member, the Learning and Career Centres offer a couple of free courses that are geared to the public service hiring process: Resume Writing and From Poster to Offer (or something similar to that).
 
meni0n said:
I can confirm that if you don't anyone, you would be hard pressed in getting any sort of response. Out of 22 positions I've applied for internally, I had 2 processes that I moved along to the testing stage (DND and RCMP), 3 that responded I didn't fulfill an essential qualification and the rest no communication whatsoever. I had better luck applying for external positions where I had a few interviews.

25 pages of jobs here in the BC public service FYI. https://search.employment.gov.bc.ca/cgi-bin/a/alljobs.cgi. I assume other provinces have a similar way of posting jobs.

My experience has been that they will usually look at education, then experience, in comparing applicants for most jobs so, if your education isn't up to speed, you'll automatically be shuffled to the bottom of the deck. Especially during a time like now where downturns in various industries make a guv'mint job look more attractive.
 
daftandbarmy said:
25 pages of jobs here in the BC public service FYI. I assume other provinces have a similar way of posting jobs.

City of Toronto

Current Opportunities
https://www.brainhunter.com/frontoffice/searchSeekerJobAction.do?sitecode=pl389#searchResult#searchResult

Ongoing Opportunities
https://www.brainhunter.com/frontoffice/searchSeekerJobAction.do?sitecode=pl435#searchResult

Agencies and Corporations
http://www1.toronto.ca/wps/portal/contentonly?vgnextoid=48142acbda21b410VgnVCM10000071d60f89RCRD



 
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