Reserve Pension- Merged
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Rifleman62 said:
As usual, you are a wealth of information. The situation you describe is exactly mine; full-time contributor to the PSSA and Cl A reservist. I have already submitted my buyback estimate electing to buy back all of my past earnings being unaware of this particular issue. I was always concerned that by being part of both pension plans was going to cause me more grief than its worth.
Do you know where I could I read up on this in the regs?
You ask a good question: If you cannot count the time, why should you contribute? I have a better question. Why serve at all if you'll be screwed out of benefits everyone else is entitled to simply because you are a public servant?
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Anyone help me with this please? I am lucky enough to have all me CF 896's for the last 22 years of service I have completed from 1985 until Mar 2006 minus one year in the middle for some reason.
What do I use to find my total pay for that year when I am not allowed to use my T4 slips (which for some reason I seem to also have)
I really thought that when I had got ahold of my CF 896 for my whole time in that this would do the trick for me. Apparently not. What is next guys. Thanks.
Also when did we start receiving PILL?
What do I use to find my total pay for that year when I am not allowed to use my T4 slips (which for some reason I seem to also have)
I really thought that when I had got ahold of my CF 896 for my whole time in that this would do the trick for me. Apparently not. What is next guys. Thanks.
Also when did we start receiving PILL?
This may have been covered in the last 30 pages or so, but I could not find it. I retired from Reg Force in 95 (FRP), with 19 years of service. I received an immediate pension, albeit 38%. I have been working Res for the past few years and am now considering going with the Res pension plan, due to the fact my 39% is a relative small pension. Has any ex reg force annuitants on this site actually gone thru the complete process of stopping their pension and gone with the new one ?? I'm thinking it might improve my financial lot significantly, even if I have to pay them a small fortune to return the pension money I've received since 95. If there is someone like that could you pls contact me?? I have a few questions. (unit pension reps have virtually NO knowledge on annuitants issues).
Thanks
Thanks
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Big Cletus: Contact the pension folks in Ottawa for full information (go to http://www.admfincs.forces.gc.ca/pension/intro_e.asp to read more, or send an email to pensioninquiries@forces.gc.ca - but expect delays - my request for an update on my situation was sent 2 weeks ago and to date has received only an automated response.)
However, to the best of my knowledge there are no provisions for annuitants to become deemed re-enrolled; the regulations in place prohibit it - to the point where I know of one annuitant taking a one day break in service during their HLTA to avoid serving for more than one year.
Again, though, let me stress that you should contact the pension office in Ottawa for confirmation of the current regulations for individuals in receipt of an annuity under the CFSA. They will be able to talk you through the current rules.
However, to the best of my knowledge there are no provisions for annuitants to become deemed re-enrolled; the regulations in place prohibit it - to the point where I know of one annuitant taking a one day break in service during their HLTA to avoid serving for more than one year.
Again, though, let me stress that you should contact the pension office in Ottawa for confirmation of the current regulations for individuals in receipt of an annuity under the CFSA. They will be able to talk you through the current rules.
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Rules have changed. See the revised CMP Instruction 20/04. For periods of service of one year or more a member may now elect to be re-enrolled:
If you choose to do this, you will never again be able to draw an annuity and work part or full time for the military. To resume collecting your annuity you will have to either go 12 months without earnings or release from the CF - a transfer to the Supp Res will not start your annuity.
The impacts may be severe. Examine your situation carefully before making any such choice. And don't take advice from someone on an Internet message board - follow up via official channels.
If you choose to do this, you will never again be able to draw an annuity and work part or full time for the military. To resume collecting your annuity you will have to either go 12 months without earnings or release from the CF - a transfer to the Supp Res will not start your annuity.
The impacts may be severe. Examine your situation carefully before making any such choice. And don't take advice from someone on an Internet message board - follow up via official channels.
thanks dapaterson...
do you know if I continue on past the 330 days, and am deemed to be re-enrolled, do I have to repay every red penny I have drawn on my pension since I retired ?? That is what I had heard..and would have cost me about plenty of $$. (don't worry, I won't hold to to account for the answer!!), but you seem to be in the loop...much better than most...and definitely better than I
Cheers
do you know if I continue on past the 330 days, and am deemed to be re-enrolled, do I have to repay every red penny I have drawn on my pension since I retired ?? That is what I had heard..and would have cost me about plenty of $$. (don't worry, I won't hold to to account for the answer!!), but you seem to be in the loop...much better than most...and definitely better than I
Cheers
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My understanding is the following (and please confirm it through the chain of command!!!)
You can continue to draw your annuity until day 365 of your current consecutive period of full-time service. On day 366 you will lose your right to the annuity and begin to contribute to the CFSA again. This will likely add to your qualifying time, and may increase your best 5 years. However, if you cease full-time service and alter resume, you can never again both work full-time and draw an annuity. (Though I suppose if you re-joined the regular force, then released such a thing might be possible; I'm not certain).
Again, I recommend looking up the latest CANFORGEN with an announcement about the changes to CMP Instruction 20/04, and that you read CMP Instruction 20/04 in detail and formulate your questions from it.
You can continue to draw your annuity until day 365 of your current consecutive period of full-time service. On day 366 you will lose your right to the annuity and begin to contribute to the CFSA again. This will likely add to your qualifying time, and may increase your best 5 years. However, if you cease full-time service and alter resume, you can never again both work full-time and draw an annuity. (Though I suppose if you re-joined the regular force, then released such a thing might be possible; I'm not certain).
Again, I recommend looking up the latest CANFORGEN with an announcement about the changes to CMP Instruction 20/04, and that you read CMP Instruction 20/04 in detail and formulate your questions from it.
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One caution: The Internet version of 20/04 has not been updated (just checked); so get thee to a DWAN computer.
Roger that...
I had a call this a.m. from the pesnion people..(not too bad..about 24 hrs later!!), and it looks like I'm good to go. The main thing is that I do not take the 35 day break, and let the OR do the rest. I will have to repay all of the days for which I am claiming service...1 for 1. Thats much better than originally reported. Thanks again..
Cheers
I had a call this a.m. from the pesnion people..(not too bad..about 24 hrs later!!), and it looks like I'm good to go. The main thing is that I do not take the 35 day break, and let the OR do the rest. I will have to repay all of the days for which I am claiming service...1 for 1. Thats much better than originally reported. Thanks again..
Cheers
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For those looking for historical information on their prior pay, I have discovered that at least some of the old RDS data is accessible. After numerous emails of increasingly hostile tone between myself and the folks at DAIP, I ahve recevied RDS attendance listings for a two year period.
I cannot guarantee that all the information is available; however, if you are missing data it can't hurt to ask.
In my email request I expanded on my earlier request for all pay records, and specifically identified the time period for which I was asking the data and clearly stated that the data I was requesting was contained in RDS.
I suppose my additional observations that DND was in violation of the Privacy Act, that InfoSource stated the records I was requesting were available, and that my next recourse would be to approach the Privacy Commissioner with a formal complaint may have influenced their reply, and prodded them to provide the information. But that would be cynical...
I cannot guarantee that all the information is available; however, if you are missing data it can't hurt to ask.
In my email request I expanded on my earlier request for all pay records, and specifically identified the time period for which I was asking the data and clearly stated that the data I was requesting was contained in RDS.
I suppose my additional observations that DND was in violation of the Privacy Act, that InfoSource stated the records I was requesting were available, and that my next recourse would be to approach the Privacy Commissioner with a formal complaint may have influenced their reply, and prodded them to provide the information. But that would be cynical...
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For those that have submitted their paper work for the buyback, how long did you wait before you received any acknowledgement from the pension people?
Full disclosure: I've been following this thread and learning about their implementation challenges so I wasn't expecting an overnight reply. But it's been over four months now and not even so much as a acknowledgement of receipt of my application has been sent to me.
Full disclosure: I've been following this thread and learning about their implementation challenges so I wasn't expecting an overnight reply. But it's been over four months now and not even so much as a acknowledgement of receipt of my application has been sent to me.
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begbie
Call. Good luck getting an answer, as they just don't have the staff. Regarding Public Service buy back. I have been specifically informed you cannot buy back concurent Reserve and Public Service. Also notice that the CFPMP web page has been modified re buy back. Previously the web site refered to buying back RCMP and Public Service time. The following is from the web site with the subject heading and date of posting:
http://www.forces.gc.ca/hr/dgcb/cfpmp/engraph/home_e.asp?sidesection=5&sidecat=17
The Regular Force Pension Plan (2007-06-22)
Can I count past earnings and service toward my pension (called making an election)?
Yes. You can count certain types of prior service. Contact DAPP/Pension Services for more information.
Introducing the Reserve Force Pension Plan (2007-08-27)
Can I count past earnings and service toward my pension?
Yes. You can count (that is, obtain credit for) certain types of prior service.
Counting Past Earnings and Service (2007-08-27)
Eligible service
You can count your:
• Reserve Force service before joining the Reserve Force Pension Plan or the Regular Force plan; and
• Regular Force service for which you received a return of contributions
Purchasing prior service, send an email to: PriorPensionableServiceArrears@forces.gc.ca [Mail to: link]
Call. Good luck getting an answer, as they just don't have the staff. Regarding Public Service buy back. I have been specifically informed you cannot buy back concurent Reserve and Public Service. Also notice that the CFPMP web page has been modified re buy back. Previously the web site refered to buying back RCMP and Public Service time. The following is from the web site with the subject heading and date of posting:
http://www.forces.gc.ca/hr/dgcb/cfpmp/engraph/home_e.asp?sidesection=5&sidecat=17
The Regular Force Pension Plan (2007-06-22)
Can I count past earnings and service toward my pension (called making an election)?
Yes. You can count certain types of prior service. Contact DAPP/Pension Services for more information.
Introducing the Reserve Force Pension Plan (2007-08-27)
Can I count past earnings and service toward my pension?
Yes. You can count (that is, obtain credit for) certain types of prior service.
Counting Past Earnings and Service (2007-08-27)
Eligible service
You can count your:
• Reserve Force service before joining the Reserve Force Pension Plan or the Regular Force plan; and
• Regular Force service for which you received a return of contributions
Purchasing prior service, send an email to: PriorPensionableServiceArrears@forces.gc.ca [Mail to: link]
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Thanks for the quick responses. I have sent them an email since I can't find a phone number on any of their multiple websites.
I just spent the last hour reading through RFPP regulations and other regs amending other regs of other regs linked to the CF Super Annuation Act. Even though I do this kind of stuff for a living, it had my head spinning. They're not the most elegantly drafted set of regs I have seen before. It's incredible that you can take such an oblique cut through these things. It leaves me the impression that if you imaginative enough, you could easily arrive at any interpretation you like.
I just spent the last hour reading through RFPP regulations and other regs amending other regs of other regs linked to the CF Super Annuation Act. Even though I do this kind of stuff for a living, it had my head spinning. They're not the most elegantly drafted set of regs I have seen before. It's incredible that you can take such an oblique cut through these things. It leaves me the impression that if you imaginative enough, you could easily arrive at any interpretation you like.
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From the Minister's web site. Emphasis mine.
http://www.forces.gc.ca/site/minister/messages/2007-03-01_pension_e.asp
Minister's Statement - Pension Modernization
Caring properly for members of the Canadian Forces and sustaining the growth and personnel retention of the Forces are key government priorities. Recently, I had the pleasure of announcing modernization of the Canadian Forces pension system for both Regular and Reserve members. While ensuring that your tax dollars are put to the best possible use, the new pension arrangements that came into force on March 1, 2007, will improve the quality of life for all Canadian Forces personnel, recognize the important role of Reservists, boost CF recruiting and encourage serving members to stay in uniform.
The features of the modernized pension system include a shorter vesting period, more flexible and predictable rules for pension entitlements, improved portability opportunities and provisions that extend pension coverage to more than 21,000 Reserve Force members. The new arrangements also provide for a pension to be payable immediately upon completion of 25 years of service in the CF no matter the age of the member at release. Canadian soldiers, sailors and air personnel now enjoy pension arrangements that compare favourably with the pension plans available to other federal employees while respecting the exigencies of military service and CF members will have greater financial flexibility and security in planning for their retirement income needs.
The Reserve Force was the last large federal public sector workforce without a pension plan and is an essential part of the Canadian Forces. Its members are critical to our ability to meet defence and security challenges at home and abroad. In recent years, as those challenges became more demanding, increasing attention was focused on the need to bring the compensation of Reserve Force personnel in line with that of Regular Force personnel. The absence of a pension plan for the Reserve Force was not consistent with this objective.
The modernization of the Canadian Forces pension arrangements are particularly important to our human resource management requirements and the need to have the Canadian Forces continue to grow. This will happen in two ways: some of the changes make continuation of service more attractive to those already in uniform – retention of serving personnel is particularly important. Other changes will encourage people to join the Canadian Forces. The new provisions permit people who serve for a short period to earn pension credits that can then be transferred to another employer's registered pension plan, or another locked-in retirement savings plan. This in turn has significant human resource management advantages since it will facilitate the use of short engagements, which are often needed to enhance military capability temporarily.
To guarantee the best possible use of taxpayers’ money, we have ensured that the modernized Canadian Forces pension plan meets very high standards of fairness and accountability. At the same time, we have demonstrated an unequivocal commitment to ensuring our personnel and their families are looked after now and throughout their retirement years. Our goal is to keep the Canadian Forces in position as an employer of choice.
Date Modified: 2007-03-08
http://www.forces.gc.ca/site/minister/messages/2007-03-01_pension_e.asp
Minister's Statement - Pension Modernization
Caring properly for members of the Canadian Forces and sustaining the growth and personnel retention of the Forces are key government priorities. Recently, I had the pleasure of announcing modernization of the Canadian Forces pension system for both Regular and Reserve members. While ensuring that your tax dollars are put to the best possible use, the new pension arrangements that came into force on March 1, 2007, will improve the quality of life for all Canadian Forces personnel, recognize the important role of Reservists, boost CF recruiting and encourage serving members to stay in uniform.
The features of the modernized pension system include a shorter vesting period, more flexible and predictable rules for pension entitlements, improved portability opportunities and provisions that extend pension coverage to more than 21,000 Reserve Force members. The new arrangements also provide for a pension to be payable immediately upon completion of 25 years of service in the CF no matter the age of the member at release. Canadian soldiers, sailors and air personnel now enjoy pension arrangements that compare favourably with the pension plans available to other federal employees while respecting the exigencies of military service and CF members will have greater financial flexibility and security in planning for their retirement income needs.
The Reserve Force was the last large federal public sector workforce without a pension plan and is an essential part of the Canadian Forces. Its members are critical to our ability to meet defence and security challenges at home and abroad. In recent years, as those challenges became more demanding, increasing attention was focused on the need to bring the compensation of Reserve Force personnel in line with that of Regular Force personnel. The absence of a pension plan for the Reserve Force was not consistent with this objective.
The modernization of the Canadian Forces pension arrangements are particularly important to our human resource management requirements and the need to have the Canadian Forces continue to grow. This will happen in two ways: some of the changes make continuation of service more attractive to those already in uniform – retention of serving personnel is particularly important. Other changes will encourage people to join the Canadian Forces. The new provisions permit people who serve for a short period to earn pension credits that can then be transferred to another employer's registered pension plan, or another locked-in retirement savings plan. This in turn has significant human resource management advantages since it will facilitate the use of short engagements, which are often needed to enhance military capability temporarily.
To guarantee the best possible use of taxpayers’ money, we have ensured that the modernized Canadian Forces pension plan meets very high standards of fairness and accountability. At the same time, we have demonstrated an unequivocal commitment to ensuring our personnel and their families are looked after now and throughout their retirement years. Our goal is to keep the Canadian Forces in position as an employer of choice.
Date Modified: 2007-03-08
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Note that the buy back calculator is still not up on the web site. The folks at ADM FIN (CS) are stressed out with the problems of Reserve Pension system. A few weeks ago it was discovered that there was a programming error on the internal computer to calculate the "Rollover/Top Up Election" - not including CPP, Bridge, etc. The Programmers are still working on it.
Apparently there are approx 30 Reservists awaiting this "fix" so that their pension can be calculated, then sent to Benefits for finalization, then to Public Works for payment. I have been waiting since 5 Aug; someone else since Apr. End Dec pension cheque????
DND already has a quite substantial amount of my money as a lump sum payment so therefore that money is no longer collecting interest as an investment. I am still paying interest on the amount that I am financing over 20 years.
Who on this site is waiting? This whole situation is a mess as a result of an anticipated another year delay that did not materialize, rushed through Regulations open to interpretation ( which created discovery of new problems as I have personally found out), and the obviously lack of proper Battle Procedure by CMP.
As this buy back is so expensive due to the 7% CI, I could not buy back 100% of the Top Up even after rolling over all of my RRSPs. (which were maxed ever year).
Not a happy camper.
Apparently there are approx 30 Reservists awaiting this "fix" so that their pension can be calculated, then sent to Benefits for finalization, then to Public Works for payment. I have been waiting since 5 Aug; someone else since Apr. End Dec pension cheque????
DND already has a quite substantial amount of my money as a lump sum payment so therefore that money is no longer collecting interest as an investment. I am still paying interest on the amount that I am financing over 20 years.
Who on this site is waiting? This whole situation is a mess as a result of an anticipated another year delay that did not materialize, rushed through Regulations open to interpretation ( which created discovery of new problems as I have personally found out), and the obviously lack of proper Battle Procedure by CMP.
As this buy back is so expensive due to the 7% CI, I could not buy back 100% of the Top Up even after rolling over all of my RRSPs. (which were maxed ever year).
Not a happy camper.
