Reserve Pension- Merged

[dapaterson]

Still waiting for determination here as well; two months after I submitted an email request for an update I received the following:

The payments are being deduct from your bank account in order to protect your election.

We are processing the election by election date but if a member is being release, we need to process his file in priority. As we received a considerate number of elections and the complexity of the calculation, it could take up to 1 year before your election is calculated.

Be advise that, prior to send the PSPA to CRA for certification, each member will be contacted in order to give them an update on their election.

Hope that answer your concern.

Ignoring the poor grammar, what's being said is that releasing members are the priority, and that it may take upwards of one year for my file to be processed.
My file has been in their possession since April.

To call this grossly incompetent would be an understatement - my reply read something like this:

1. Per the reply below, a delay of one year for determination of my situation is an unacceptable delay.  Royal Assent was granted on 14 Sept 1999 to the enabling legislation authorising pension benefits for the Reserve Force under the CFSA (Bill C-78).  Over 7 1/2 years has elapsed between Royal Assent and implementation; that represents more than adequate time to prepare for any influx of new members.

2. That calculations are complex is the problem of the DND/CF, not of the individuals making elections, particularly since DND/CF staff were instrumental in drafting the regulations which were approved by Treasury Board (acting in the capacity of Governor-in-Council).  DND cannot claim complexity as a mitigating factor when DND is itself responsible for that complexity - it is tantamount to Lizzie Borden asking mercy from the court because she is an orphan.

3. DND has now had in excess of six months to perform the requisite determinations on my file.  That is a more than reasonable length of time.

4. I therefore require the Department to provide me their completed calculation for my election no later than (a date they have ignored).

No answer, though the staff did read the email...


(edit to fix my typing...)

 

[geo]

Still waiting over here.
Guess I am due to ask for an update.
Since I am expecting the worse....

 

[Greymatters]

Quote fm dapaterson
1.  Per the reply below, a delay of one year for determination of my situation is an unacceptable delay.  Royal Assent was granted on 14 Sept 1999 to the enabling legislation authorising pension benefits for the Reserve Force under the CFSA (Bill C-78).  Over 7 1/2 years has elapsed between Royal Assent and implementation; that represents more than adequate time to prepare for any influx of new members.

2.  That calculations are complex is the problem of the DND/CF, not of the individuals making elections, particularly since DND/CF staff were instrumental in drafting the regulations which were approved by Treasury Board (acting in the capacity of Governor-in-Council).  DND cannot claim complexity as a mitigating factor when DND is itself responsible for that complexity - it is tantamount to Lizzie Borden asking mercy from the court because she is an orphan.

3.  DND has now had in excess of six months to perform the requisite determinations on my file.  That is a more than reasonable length of time.

4.  I therefore require the Department to provide me their completed calculation for my election no later than (a date they have ignored).

No answer, though the staff did read the email...

Still, the tone of the letter was appropriate.  perhaps you should start including the names of persons you talked to or corresponded with in your letter?  Personal responsibility can be a wonderful incentive to motivation...

 

[begbie]

I am still awaiting determination as well.  I only submitted mine 4 months ago.

On another note, I did receive the clarification I was seeking a few weeks ago.  Apparently, a reservist is allowed to enroll in the part-time plan even if they are a regular contributor to another federal pension plan.  The only reason a reservist would not be eligible to participate in Part 1.1 is if they bought back prior reserve service for use against their other federal pension plan (double counting is the concern).  This answer came over the phone and not in writing so I am still worried I won't be entitled to enroll in the Part 1.1 given how smoothly implementation has gone, I won't believe it until the final determination is made.

I also found out why I hadn't heard anything from pension buyback administrators.  I was expecting to get something in writing by way of official correspondence mailed to my residence.  It turns out they were emailing me updates and requesting more information.  However, they were sending those emails to my forces.gc.ca account... an account that rarely gets checked as a Class A reservist, especially over the summer months when the unit was stood down and only during the trg year if and only if I had admin to get done.  Needless to say, I check it every Tuesday night now.

While discussing my other concerns with the pension buyback administrators, they told me that despite my application being submitted over 4 months ago, the determination was still going to take anywhere from another 6 months to a year due to a backlog of applications and being short-staffed.

 

[geo]

I also found out why I hadn't heard anything from pension buyback administrators.  I was expecting to get something in writing by way of official correspondence mailed to my residence.  It turns out they were emailing me updates and requesting more information.  However, they were sending those emails to my forces.gc.ca account... an account that rarely gets checked as a Class A reservist, especially over the summer months when the unit was stood down and only during the trg year if and only if I had admin to get done.  Needless to say, I check it every Tuesday night now.

Why don't you ask them to change your contact email address..... matter of fact, I thought they specificaly asked that you do not use your forces.gc.ca address.

 

[begbie]

Why don't you ask them to change your contact email address..... matter of fact, I thought they specificaly asked that you do not use your forces.gc.ca address.

I just looked over my submission that I sent in and I can't find the place where you are required to enter your email address.  Regardless, the person looking after my file now has my regular email address.

 

[geo]

isn't your email address your login info ?

 

[begbie]

isn't your email address your login info ?

You're quite right... it is in fact my regular email address. 

So it appears they aren't using the information inputed into the online system. 

 

[Northern Ranger]

Quote fm dapaterson


3.   DND has now had in excess of six months to perform the requisite determinations on my file.  That is a more than reasonable length of time.

4

I do feel for you guys, I got out of the Regs Jul 13 did 30 days retirement leave(all papers where signed in Jul) Just last week I recived a letter asking me if I wanted to take a buy out or start getting a pension.  At least for me I will get the money owing on the pension but for some reason its taking a long time.  Giving it till the end of this month and then start making calls.

So for all you Reg Force guys that are getting out, make sure you plan on at least three months, sounds bad but not near as long as those that are dealing with the Reserve Pension are dealing with.

 

[Roy Harding]

I do feel for you guys, I got out of the Regs Jul 13 did 30 days retirement leave(all papers where signed in Jul) Just last week I recived a letter asking me if I wanted to take a buy out or start getting a pension.  At least for me I will get the money owing on the pension but for some reason its taking a long time.  Giving it till the end of this month and then start making calls.

So for all you Reg Force guys that are getting out, make sure you plan on at least three months, sounds bad but not near as long as those that are dealing with the Reserve Pension are dealing with.

That's terrible.  I got out 4 Jan 04 - my first pension payment hit the bank account end Feb, just like it was supposed to - and they've been regular ever since. 

Kind of a neat feeling, actually - the Queen now pays me NOT to show up!  I get a giggle out of it every month - even almost four years later.

Roy

 

[Greymatters]

So for all you Reg Force guys that are getting out, make sure you plan on at least three months, sounds bad but not near as long as those that are dealing with the Reserve Pension are dealing with. 

I havent read all 32 pages of this topic recently, so this might have been pointed out already, but it sounds like a very different setup between personnel retiring from the Reg Force and Reserves.

When I retired in 2005, the clerk made it very clear, in fact a point of pride, that they ensured retiring reg force members were receviing their first pension check ASAP, and they came through.  I took a month of retirement leave and bang on schedule, my pension as in the bank on time very payday afterwards.  Hell, even my SISIP and VAC money was showing up on time.

But it doesnt sound like this is happening for Reserve members.  There's a gear slipping here somewhere...

 

[54/102 CEF]

No question about slipping gears - I`m told the staff has 1000 files and less than 10 people to handle this.

In my case it didn`t dawn on them they hadn't received the pay records material from the archives - but "your file is now being reviewed" - even at that it took from May 25 to 15 Nov to get 35 pages which was probably sitting in a folder that you or I could get in 10 minutes.

So maybe its time for the CDS to pay a visit to the Reserve Pension Office - and drag along CLS as he owns most of the reserves.

Just the two of them - un announced - with note books - no Blackberries.

 

[Rifleman62]

My perception is that the staff at Canadian Forces Pensions Services (DCFPS) are caught in the middle and are doing their upmost to deal with a bad situation. Short staff, new regulations that need clarification from CMP, huge work load, etc. DND has really dropped the ball on the Reserve Pension, and it is the worker bees at DCFPS that are on the firing line, without flak vests. If I was to point a finger, based on what I know and my perceptions, I would say someone high up in the food chain did not do their Battle Procedure and/or does not give shite about the Reserves. So far this has been proved by the length of time it took to get the Reserve Pension implemented, the doubling and in some cases tripling of wages guised as "updating", the 7% CI vice 4% SI, the requirement to get your own pay records to prove your service, etc. I sent a letter (previously posted here) Dec 06 directly to the VCDS. He read it . All I got in return was a "prompt" to use the chain of command. So I sent another letter through the C of C. The result of both - nothing. I was not impressed, especially with the VCDS who is responsible for CMP. So I will try again, and up the ante (good time to sent it with all that's going on in Ottawa!).

All the people that I have been dealing with at DCFPS have been enduring and professional. I have been assured that my pension will be resolved in time for an end Dec payment. In the meantime arrangements have been made to off set the delay: 5 Aug - Dec.

If you do not give your troops the tools to do the job, the mission will fail. My opinion is that the mission commander did not give DCFPS the tools, and there is no overwatch on the mission commander or nobody gives a shite about this.

If "they" think that we in the Reserve are going to take this mismanagement and loan sharking lying down, guess what , they better think again.

 

[54/102 CEF]

Suggest you send in this to your MP or Senator of Choice. I just did.

Dear Senator ______________

Subject - Reserve Forces Pension.

My concerns center on two things

1.    The Pension staff at DND seem to be seriously under staffed versus what I understand to be a massive caseload. The time to get an answer from DND seems excessive. If I was putting up to $300,000 into a pension fund I am sure the financial agency I would deal with would send a limousine to my doorstep, answer questions promptly, and provide clear indications of service to the pension subscriber. The DND staff I have dealt with are very obliging but it is clear to me they are overwhelmed.
2.    The perception is that the rate the reserves are being charged is approaching twice what a regular force person who buy`s back their time in the program for pension purposes. I have heard that ex-regular force personnel coming back to the regulars can buy back their time at 4% simple interest up to age 99. Reserves who may have accumulated significant time to qualify for a pension of at least 25 years full time are paying 7 percent plus at compound interest.

Can you have your staff look into this? Can these rumours be debunked without having to rely on canned replies from DND which are no better than what we defeated in the Cold War.

There is an extensive thread on this topic on the well known WWW.ARMY.CA website  at http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/28418.new;topicseen#new

 

[kratz]

Ouch! It appears that the solution to the 4% vice 7% buy back is going to be resolved this winter (around Feb/Mar).  Right now all I have is RUMINT, so I will save what I have for another post.

 

[Rifleman62]

Kratz, the source of your RUMINT is? Your profile loc is far from the centre of the universe.

 

[RLD]

Ouch! It appears that the solution to the 4% vice 7% buy back is going to be resolved this winter (around Feb/Mar).  Right now all I have is RUMINT, so I will save what I have for another post.

I'm not sure what you mean about the interest rate being "resolved" but anyone reading should avoid procrastinating on their election in the hopes it will be reduced. Not only is the interest cost (whether at 4% or 7%) continuing to add up every day but on 1 Jan 08 the wage factor used in updating past earnings will go up. This means that the amount owed for each year being bought back will go up and with compound interest will add significantly to the cost. In my case the daily interest cost is about $30, i.e. electing on 31 Dec would cost me about $30 more than electing on 30 Dec. However electing on 1 Jan 08 would cost me >$3800 more than electing on 31 Dec 07. IF (and I think it's a big IF) TB decides to revert to 4% or in any way step back from the 7% compound interest I would expect it to be retroactive to personnel who have already elected although that is a personal opinion. You can see the effect on your own circumstances by changing the election date on the buyback calculator.

Even worse, if you are buying back and you have not remained a participant since CIF (1 Mar 07), then the contribution rate for next year (4.6% vice 4.3% for 2007) will be usd in calculating each years cost. With compound interest then applied to the result the cost spikes pretty quickly. As long as you remain a participant then the 4.3% rate will apply so this shouldn't affect too many people but it could be costly for those who it does that wait until 2008 or later to elect. The pertinent info can be found in para 14(2) of the RFPP reglations at:
http://lois.justice.gc.ca/en/showdoc/cr/SOR-2007-32///en?page=1

 

[Rifleman62]

Good Advice. Until you make your election, the 7% CI accumulates on the total amount owing. As stated the rate of contributions for both all earnings under the annual CPP maximum, and over the CPP maximum increases .3% each on 1 Jan 08. If you do not have enough funds either through rolling over your RRSP/other savings to buy back all of the pension, the rate of interest to buy back the remaining outstanding is approx 5.63 % CI for 10 year repayment plan or 6.27 % CI on the maximum 20 year repayment plan (based on  info I had, an actuary figured this out). Consequently if you still owe $50K on buyback, and are repaying this over 20 years, add 6.27 % CI, calculated annually, to the $50K until repaid in full. This covers interest and the mortality charge on the outstanding amount.
I received a printout "Calculation of Annuity Payable under Part I of the CF Superannuation Act".  The column headings are: Year, Part Time Days, Full Time Days, Prorata, Buyback ratio, Rollover Ratio, Earned Annuity, and CPP Reduction. In my case in some years the number of part time and full time days did not match my records (+27 days) so I requested a verification. The very interesting item is the Earned Annuity column. No matter how much I made for a 20 year period which was full time, the amount of the earned annuity remained exactly the same. My earned annuity for 8 months in 2007 was negligible, which I requested verification. From the online buyback calculator record I have, you can see for example the following, period 1986-1990:

Total Pay    Updated earnings    Required Contribution    Election Costs
$26400            $67100                   $2900                          $11700
  30900             74100                     3200                            12100
  40400             90200                     3900                            13800
  38900             80800                     3500                            11500
  53200            103000                    4400                            13700

Total Pay is actual earnings (what I made that year), after adding the wage factor, total pay becomes Updated Earnings, the Required Contribution is the 2007 contribution rate (for both earnings under and over the maximum CPP) X each year earnings equals what your pension contribution is, and the Election Cost is the required contribution x 7% CI. Expensive. For each of these years my Earned Annuity was $1631. Granted for the last five years of service the updated earnings, ratio is not as harsh. You can see how much what you acually made jumps and the effect of the compound interest. I personally cannot see the relationship between my election costs and the earned annuity which remains constant.  I will show it to an actuary. My feeling is that is DND is making Reservists pay all(?) or most of the costs of their own pension. Taking into consideration the huge surpluses that were in all three superannuation plans (before the lieliberals extracted into general revenue), Treasury Board has figured out the chances of collecting over various periods of retirement time, thus the huge surpluses.
Anyway the wait for the pension continues. Don't think their programming problems with the roll over/top up are solved yet. Personnel at DCFPS are working at it. My impression is that management is lacking. Never heard of concurrent activity. Forms that must be actioned to kick in an item, sit in my file. DCFPS are to send you a package soon after you retire. Package incudes dental/medical sign up, CPP declaration, tax forms. If you do not complete the dental/medical applications within 60 days of release, you will not be eligable. You then must write to Treasury Board requesting an exemption to the rule. If you do not send in the CPP declaration, Public Works (who issue the cheque) considers you to be on CPP disability, and automatically deducts $691 monthly. So if you don't get the package you are in a fix. Despite many requests I did not get my package until 15 Nov (released 5 Aug), which I returned immediately. DCFPS did not receive until 4 Dec (15 Nov-4 Dec: increadable). I personally phoned Public Works (CPP declaration), and Pension Special Services (medical application) to get them to phone DCFPS to have the forms sent to them, as they were just dumped into my file. Could not get DCFPS to return my numerous calls to three different personnel for over a week. I was lucky as I got Pension Special Services to send me the the medical application which I returned directly to them on 28 Aug (photocopy returned to DCFPS with pkg). Was not lucky with Pension Special Services dental branch. they refuse to send the dental application, stating it would be in the package from DCFPS. Guess what, I am over 60 days now.
Some personal info here. Hope it helps other. Reserve Pension=FUBAR

 

[begbie]

My feeling is that is DND is making Reservists pay all(?) or most of the costs of their own pension.

So if this is the case, I will say again, what's the point  of electing? 

Either way, I hope this is not true.  It would defeat the purpose of a pension plan as I know it.  If it is, it's a shame that it wasn't communicated that way.

 

[geo]

My spin on this....
When all is said and done, the pension plan for reservists will be a valuable tool for reservists of today going into the future.  If us old timers are accomodated all fine and good, but I don,t think that's the priority or object of the exercise.

Many reservists have benefited handsomely from the sevarance gratuity they have received. Those who received "credit" for a full year - in spite of as little as 12 Class A training days per year have laughed their way to the bank.