research for a new series

[Michael Dorosh]

Blackhawk Down was pretty good.  I think you could put Band of Brothers in that catagory as well.

I didn't ask what you thought was good, I asked you to name something 100 percent accurate. Band of Brothers is my all time favourite.  Want to know how accurate it was.  Go here:  http://www.101airborneww2.com/bandofbrothers3.html

Some pretty nitpicky stuff and the author is a bit torqued that he wasn't included among the advisors, but shows some of the changes made for dramatic purposes.  SS troops in Normandy on D-Day?  Never happened, but the series shows them being gunned down by Spiers in a flashback type sequence.  The assault on Foy?  Check out the footage of the actual terrain in the documentary WE STAND ALONE TOGETHER and then the fictional attack.  The real assault was over several hundred metres of terrain.  The field in the movie is what - 200 metres across?  A good example of space being compressed for dramatic purposes (everything needs to fit onto the screen).  Did the garrison at Foy really run around back and forth in white snowsuits every time someone in Company E looked through their binoculars at the town?  One rather doubts it.... etc.

Can't speak for Blackhawk Down - I did love the closeup shot of the Minimi crew with blanks in their weapon.   Kind of like Upham in SPR whose closeup revealed his MG ammo had no primers....it's all about willing suspension of disbelief....

 

[writerchic]

Wow, what a difference between yesterday and today, unreal.
My drama, and it is a drama, will hopefully show all of Canada, that you truly exist, and are important to us as a country. I hope it will shed light of the CF and draw some much needed attention to it.
The 'conflict' that is needed will be personal to each specific character, family or relationship or religious issues, I won't put in something that is completely unbelievable. I'm sure my consultants won't let me, nor do I wish to. But I will write about things that could possibly happen, rare if that, but could.
A disturbing article I read recently said the TO police has 2000 more officers than the Canadian Infantry has soldiers. Is that true? That's depressing. Why not show potential enlisters (enlistees?) the difficult decision it was to put your life on hold and the pride in your decision to join. Is that such a bad thing?
I'm not a journalist trying to uncover the big bad scoop, just a writer who desperately wants to see more good Can. TV, with our flag on all the buildings in the background.
For all those who were helpful, thanks for the advice and suggestions, I'll take them all.
For those who were not, if this show gets picked up, feel free to change the channel.
Carolyn

 

[TangoTwoBravo]

Writerchic,

The CWO you are describing would most likely be referred to at an army training establishment as the RSM (Regimental Sergeant Major).  He is the senior Non-Commissioned Officer at the school (there is also a Commanding Officer).  He does not "teach" classes to the recruits but he sets the tone for the whole establishment.  His interaction with the recruits will be limited (as stated by others) but he will have interaction with the staff. The RSM does have an office but I would not characterize his work as being paperwork driven (the Adjutant, Chief Clerk and Coy 2ICs do that).  He will often be out and about checking on things.  The maintenance of discpline and morale are his two big duties.  The RSM will be looking after the careers and welfare of the instructors and he will be "interviewing" them from time to time.  In addition, while there are other NCOs who look after "standards" the RSM will make sure that things are running properly from a staff perspective.

Their are other senior NCOs such as the training Company CSMs, the DSM (Drill Sergeant Major) and the senior Standards NCO (often a Master Warrant Officer) who will deal with most recruit issues.  I understand, however, that for a series you are limited in the number of characters.

The school will have a civilian secretary and a chaplain.  The chaplain will get involved with recruits who are having personal problems (and being a drama I'm sure that your recruits will have these).  Having a Commanding Officer character would be useful, as he and the RSM form a team.  The CO and RSM can get involved with recruits who are failing or have failed training.  Each school is a bit different, but they will usually convene a "board" that will decide the future disposition of recruits who are having problems.  This may be delegated to lower levels but again, I understand that you do not want a cast of thousands.

If I could offer one small piece of advice, basic training does not emphasize the conduct of humanitarian assistance operations.  Army basic training is focused on transforming civilians into soldiers, not aid workers.  The field training emphasis is on warfighting.  Perhaps you could have a recruit who thought he was signing up to do humanitarian work and instead is faced with learning how to kill people and is having some moral problems (cue the chaplain)?  I've observed basic training in the US and while there are differences the basic premise is the same.

Best of luck,

2B

p.s. I worked on the staff of a training school for three years and my comments above are based on my observations of the RSM.  Hopefully you can get some advice from an actual school RSM who actually did the job!

 

[writerchic]

An RSM! That sounds exactly right, yes, that is definitely the description of this character.
Perfect, thankyou.

 

[Michael Dorosh]

Well, my only experience with a school RSM was to be given three days of extra duties by one after an inspection, because there was a wrinkle in my bedcover.  Hell of a way for a 32 year old man to be treated - "Take a look!  Do you see that!  Or maybe you think I'm on crack?"

And of course one of my nights of extra duties was during the course graduation party.

The course warrant advised me that he thought the RSM was mistaken about the dates - couldn't fathom why anyone would make me miss the course party over a wrinkled bed.  So he advised me to stay in the barracks that night and come out to the party. 

So the duty NCO had to come find me half an hour after my duty was to commence.  I felt like a jackass, but so did the course warrant - who felt so bad about it that he brought me some of the barbeque dinner everyone else was enjoynig while I did my duties at the school.  ;D  Of course, the RSM HAD intended I miss the first bit of the course party, and the course warrant had advised me to forget about it in error.

I did, however, make an entrance once my duties were over by being the only one to show up to the party with a date - one of the cuties on another course was at the school while I was doing my duties and I explained my situation.  She was more than happy to attend the party with me.

Luckily the RSM wasn't at the party that night.  (Lucky for me, that is).

My course warrant was a reservist, incidentally, while the school RSM was a regular.

 

[writerchic]

ONE small wrinkle? Really?
Wow, strict doesn't begin to describe it.
Good info to know, I'll have to write that in somewhere.
Thx.

 

[big bad john]

The RSM was reinforcing self discipline.  It is a lesson for the person who erred and their unit.

 

[writerchic]

I understand.
Is it quite common for a unit to suffer for the mistake of one individual?
What normally happens to that individual at fault?

 

[big bad john]

They are not suffering.  The unit learns what happens to an individual (remember they are learning to be a team.  Their lives depend on that...literally).  The Warrant is learning his or her short comings through this also.  It is not brutal.

 

[ex royal now flyer]

Judging from what I have read from the respondants to your original question, have you thought about turning your drama into a dysfunctional comedy?? ;D

 

[TangoTwoBravo]

Part of the aim of putting the group of recruits under stress is to weld them into a team.  On my basic officer training we had a rather terrible room inspection.  The School RSM stopped the inspection at my room (shared with three others).  He was so upset with what he saw he ceased the whole thing and declared us the worst he had ever seen. 

Three candidates were placed on "Show Parade" that night where they were inspected three times at one hour intervals.  Their kit (sixty odd items set to a very specific layout) would not be found "up to par" and would usually end up on the floor.  There was no way to get the kit back in shape in one hour if they worked alone.  What happened was that the whole course helped out and got the gear squared away in time.  Once the staff figured out that this was happening they stopped the inspections for the night (they had achieved their purpose, namely to bring us together). 

If the recruits stick together and work as a team they wil get through.  Going alone is not usually a good thing.  Some things in basic training can seem silly or non-sensical but they do have a purpose that is not readily understood at the time but comes into focus after the fact.  Inspections turn into a game where you have two of everything (one for show and one for wear).  If they start inspecting behind the power outlets for dust then you are doing well.

Cheers,

2B

 

[Fraser.g]

Lets not forget the attention to detail portion of the corrective training.
Mr Doroch was probably far along in his training by the time a corrective acton that strong was laid out for such an infration.

In the military what may look like a small detail to a civilian can turn into a life threatening one to a soldier in the field.

Small things like "oops I forgot to pack the extra radio batteries" or setting the magnetic declination on a compass incorrectly.

Remember this is not punishment it is corrective training. An group is not "punished" for an individual but an individual can  be "corrected" for a shortfall in his or her conduct.

A wrinkle on a bed sheet will not get a person killed but it sets up a desirable behavior within the group as a whole.

GF

 

[writerchic]

Things like this are already included in show ideas for future episodes.
Question: Are there 4 to a room for Basic Training?

 

[George Wallace]

If you are seriously going to be writing on the "Recruits" aspect, the RSM is a bit of a stretch if you intend on making him a central character.  As an Instructor at the Armour School my only real experiences with the RSM were Clearing In and Clearing Out "interviews".  The Recruits exposure to the RSM would probably be limited to the Commandant and RSMs Welcoming Speeches, a Commandants Inspection and finally Grad Parade.  Any other exposure to the RSM would probably have been a result of a serious offence.

I am sure that you will find much of value by surfing the various threads here.  There are whole stories to be found in the Recruiting and Training Threads.  Best War Stories and other topics will give you some insight as to what military life is like in the CF and Reserves.  Be very careful to stay away from the Cadet Forums, as they are the "Kids" literally and do not reflect at all on life in the CF.

If you have watched "Full Metal Jacket", "Band of Brothers", "The Boys in Company C" or many of the other American war films, you will see that the Recruit's exposure to others than his/her immediate Instructors is very limited.  Many of their problems are settled amongst their peers.

Happy Research.

GW

 

[Michael Dorosh]

PRN is correct- this was on a trades training course, not basic.

And I guess I need to point out - I certainly didn't feel aggrieved.  The bed wasn't that wrinkly, but the standard was set and I failed to meet it.  The RSM acted properly, and in the end, I felt good about it because I managed to get a date out of it!  I in fact wrote a letter of apology to the RSM for being late (after the course warrant officer told me not to bother), and the RSM returned it to me with the minute "apology accepted."  It felt like mutual respect.

My duties were three evenings as duty NCO - sitting at the entrance of the school.  Each night, the RSM left for the day while I was on duty.  I always made sure to stand to attention, look him right in the eye as he passed, and wish him a good night.  It showed him I was a professional and wasn't about to sulk, or be afraid of him.

I bring it up to illustrate some potential areas of conflict -

a) the 32 year old soldier who really wishes he was past the stage of being yelled at to make his bed properly
b) the reservist course warrant who doesn't see the need for discipline the way the regular RSM does

I don't like to overplay the regular vs reservist thing, but the dichotomy was interesting in that case, and may be an appropriate subject for study via a dramatic presentation.  The regular/reserve issue has always been with us - whether it is in a peacetime training school like I mentioned, or deciding which general gets to command an armoured division in World War Two.

However, the roles could have been reversed also - I am sure many reserve WOs are stricter disciplinarians than some regular WOs - it comes down to personality and experience.  And, come to think of it, drama is based on personality ("character") too.  So there are no right or wrong answers when it comes to that - just write what is interesting, and at least feasible.

 

[Cliffy433]

Good to see some constructive criticism after, what?, 2-3 pages of pettiness... I like the idea of focussing on a section within a platoon sized crse - that seems to work around your cast numbers... and Best War Stories is a good place to go for the odd bit of comic foil that even a drama needs.

WRT your question of 4 to a room on Basic - well, maybe in the Air Force... KIDDING!   > ;D

It varies from school to school, most of my courses were done in LFWA TC in wainwright and the accoms were as follows:

Tent City - 10 recruits/4 sect of mod on a concrete slab in the middle of a shale field, sand-bagged down our first day on training because of tornado warnings.   Co-Ed accoms.

H-Huts - basically, galvanized steel covered buildings built in the shape of an H.   The middle bar is the main hallway/entrance and contains showers, toilets, sinks, and laundry area.   My course was in one of the struts which are further "divided" (no doors) into approx sect sized rooms (8 pers), with enough for approx 6 sections per strut.   We were a small course and the females took half the strut, males the other half, and were about 4 per section sized "room".

Bldg 599 LFWA TC - Shangri-La compared to the other two - enough room for about 8 per room but averaging 4

Barracks in Borden - RQL6A - Sergeant's course - 4 per room.   No bldg 599, but there was cleaning staff to do halls and common areas!!   See what the others meant by Borden not being "military" - but in my defense, they CHOSE their trades, and subsequently their training establishments.

tlm.

 

[TCBF]

I got 14 extra duties in Cornwallis for having my squad of 32 guys get up 15 minutes early on the day of the Chief Instructor's inspection.  This was in the fall of 1984.  10 Platoon, C Company,  CFRS.  I didn't bother telling the RSM that my Sgt (I was a MCpl at the time) had told me to do it.  The Sgt had gone away on course the day of the inspection and so wasn't around, and I wasn't about to blade a guy who wasn't there.  Besides, I knew the rules.  being a duty NCO in Cornwallis was great fun.  There were over a thousand recruits in house, and the platoons who were allowed in the "Green and Gold" would display their competitiveness physically.  "Off to jail with these two, and try not to slip on the blood and broken teeth", etc.  Fun was had by all.

When the Sgt got back from course, he heard about my extras and started slagging me.  I just grinned and said nothing.  One of my fellow MCpls shot his mouth off and said "Hey, he got them because of you."  Then we had to stop the Sgt - a very professional soldier - from falling on his spear.

The WW2 RCN barracks held a platoon of up to 160 people.  Whoever got off the bus/plane/train was in your platoon.  Maybe thirty.  Maybe 130.  Four squad floors.  Forty max to a floor.  Forty guys in one room:  Welcome to MY jungle, boys.  Still, it bonded them quick  I found a squad and platoon bonded much faster in Cornwallis than in St Jean, because the design of St Jean is not conducive to good basic training. 

Tom

 

[Glorified Ape]

Things like this are already included in show ideas for future episodes.
Question: Are there 4 to a room for Basic Training?

For Ocdts. at St. Jean, the platoon is divided into pods, which consist of 6-9 rooms each with each room sleeping 1 ocdt. Depending on the pod, there are one or two common bathrooms in each pod with 1 shower, toilet, and 3 sinks, or in pods with 2 bathrooms, the aforementioned setup with the 2nd bathroom containing a bathtub w/ shower, sink and a toilet. Males and females are divided into different pods, although they're all branches of the same main hallway. The pods run in a U-shape off the main hallway, so the 2 pod entrances intersect (at the ends of the U) with the main hallway. In each pod there's a common room with a few chairs and a table. Each room contains a closet, desk, bed, chair, end table, mirror, small fan, and window.

I understand that for recruits the setup has 10 recruits sleeping in a large room with mid-height dividers between each recruit's sleeping area.

I understand.
Is it quite common for a unit to suffer for the mistake of one individual?
What normally happens to that individual at fault?

From my own experience during IAP (first phase of basic officer training), alientating practices such as punishing the entire platoon for one member's mess-up weren't that common - they tended to isolate problem troops from the platoon and create hostility and animosity towards them which really does nothing but fracture the platoon and exacerbate problems. There were exceptions, but they were rare and the punishment was never so severe that it created real anger towards the offenders (especially since we all screwed up sometimes). That being said, punishing the group for an individual's mistake can serve to increase the pressure and incentive for an individual to ensure the mistake doesn't happen again.

An individual's punishment for his/her mistake was usually embarassment at making the platoon look bad, as well as notes-to-file and the instructor's contempt. Group punishments were usually a result of group screw-ups - our standards of conduct, dress, or cleanlines weren't good enough one day, etc.

 

[McG]

It could be an interesting sort of juxtaposition to base a TV show on the concurrent (and typically seperte) dramas of a BMQ section and a school's HQ.   Contrast Pte Bloggin's concern that he never gets the peanut butter in his IMP to the school Commandant's problems with budgets and a burgeoning drug problem amongst bored PATS.

While the officers do play a central role in how our military functions, maybe they could be pushed to the rear (as far as screen time) in order to show the interactions of the NCO net and how the School CWO would continually be involved in the development of his senior NCOs that were in turn responsible for the development on Canada's newest crop of non-commissioned members.  

Some of the key people that would exist in an army school would be:

Commandant - Lieutenant Colonel â “ is the commanding officer of the shcool
Deputy Commandant â “ Major â “ is second in command of the school
School Chief Warrant Officer (or RSM) â “ CWO - the senior non-commissioned officer in the school
Commandant's secretary â “ civi
Adjudant â “ Capt â “ senior captain in the school, responsibilities include personnel administration, policing the jr officers, and much of the schools external correspondence

Below this â Å“Comd cellâ ? would be an operations cell, an orderly room, and a standards cell.   These would make up the school HQ.   Below this headquarters would be the instructional companies or squadrons.   Each company could be responsible for running several concurrent (or overlapping) course serials that are each structured as a platoon.

 

[pipesnake]

Wow cool idea. I wonder how quickly I could write it. Having gone through Basic, Battleschool, etc. I think I have the research down pat. My wife is a published author and has been telling me to write a screen play for some time. Thanks!!