RCMP officers told not to wear symbol depicting ‘thin blue line’

[blacktriangle]

Our department - not police - would suspend you. Nothing the union could do about it.

Interesting, thanks. Would it be suspended with pay?

 

[Jarnhamar]

Just a guess, Black Lives Matter(tm) took aim at TBL because of how similar it may be to Blue Lives Matter. And anything other than the statement *Black* lives matter is racist.

RCMP management decided pissed off paid employees are a lot easier to handle than pissed off BLM.

 

[mariomike]

Interesting, thanks. Would it be suspended with pay?

No.  But, first you would be warned, not to wear it ( or any unsanctioned thing ). If push came to shove, you would then get it in writing. Suspension would only be a last resort.

 

[Jarnhamar]

[quote author=mariomike] If push came to shove
[/quote]

Good thing everyone knows first aid  :rofl:

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

, expired body armour

You gotta be kidding me....Ontario Corrections gets made to measure brand new ones every 5 years or we can refuse to do an outside/hospital escort.  And as far as I can remember, in the last 31 years, we've only had a firearm pointed at an officer one time.

 

[Navy_Pete]

Just a guess, Black Lives Matter(tm) took aim at TBL because of how similar it may be to Blue Lives Matter. And anything other than the statement *Black* lives matter is racist.

RCMP management decided pissed off paid employees are a lot easier to handle than pissed off BLM.

Thin blue line is actually just a private company making apparel and other swag, so someone is just doing this for profit.

Rather then ask why aren't they allowed to wear them, I would ask why should the RCMP or any other LE officer be allowed to wear them on their uniform?  I can also personally support the general aim of BLM and the general idea behind TBL and supporting LE, but wouldn't wear a morale patch for either because of the politics involved, and we're supposed to be apolitical. I would expect the cops to be the same in uniform.

I mean, I think generally lean more towards pagan religions, but would think twice about wearing Thor's hammer because of it's association with white supremacy. Given the overlap with the TBL and white supremacists in the US, it's hardly a neutral symbol. Also really hard to take them seriously when they start bringing in the Punisher symbol, who is antithetical to the notion of law and order and is really about an extreme reaction to the failure of the justice system. It really undermines any institutional message about reconciliation or anything else if they allow individuals to wear that with their uniform as it's impossible to de-link it from the general association it has from the original US origins and pop culture meanings (even if they aren't necessarily what it is supposed to represent).

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Except TBL has been around supporting law enforcement for as long as I can remember.
Long before BLM figured out how to make money and support no one.

 

[trooper142]

I know full well the back blast generated by this, at least in the Federal police force, is generated by disdain for and anger at senior management. Hardly a day goes by they aren't in the news calling the membership systemically racist or sending our Force wide emails with silliness like banning the TBL flag before their political masters tell them to make it so. Only to come back and encourage pink, orange and other shirts for certain awareness days.

Meanwhile issued kit from the 25 year old jam o matic pistols they have run out of spare parts for to the cargo pants that make CADPAT pants look like skinny jeans, expired body armour that is a lower ballistic rating than issued by other agencies, massive staffing issues, especially in small Detachments, the list goes on. The new union has a massive task ahead of it calling out the nickle and dimeing of the RCMP into the Walmart of policing. Look at RCMP pay against any other major Police agency in Canada.

And the whole discussion about how the RCMP should get out of contract Policing...

I could go on but I'm on days off and don't need to think about this mess any more than I already do.

Are you sure you're not an MP? Sounds an awful lot like the problems in that organization

 

[brihard]

For any of you that are unionized, does that give you any leverage to "protest" these sort of directives? Or are you just going to put them up regardless of the consequences? Not like they can fire all of you!

Perhaps they should just authorize a standardized, subdued TBL patch for wear instead of alienating everyone?

The RCMP’s new union sent out a communique today to all members to the effect that they strongly oppose this move, and that they’ve bulk ordered Velcro patches featuring a blue line superimposed on the union’s logo (a Stetson hunt on a maple leaf). It’ll be in the same black/grey subdued colours. The union’s quite new, still establishing its credibility, and is making a point about management sending out a blast like this without engaging them first. They’re letting management know they’ve picked a dumb fight on this in terms of what they’re prioritizing during very difficult times for the profession.

The union has a ton on its plate, but management has handed them a perfect, simple issue to really galvanize support with.

 

[blacktriangle]

The RCMP’s new union sent out a communique today to all members to the effect that they strongly oppose this move, and that they’ve bulk ordered Velcro patches featuring a blue line superimposed on the union’s logo (a Stetson hunt on a maple leaf). It’ll be in the same black/grey subdued colours. The union’s quite new, still establishing its credibility, and is making a point about management sending out a blast like this without engaging them first. They’re letting management know they’ve picked a dumb fight on this in terms of what they’re prioritizing during very difficult times for the profession.

The union has a ton on its plate, but management has handed them a perfect, simple issue to really galvanize support with.

Glad to hear it.

 

[mariomike]

The RCMP’s new union sent out a communique today to all members to the effect that they strongly oppose this move, and that they’ve bulk ordered Velcro patches featuring a blue line superimposed on the union’s logo (a Stetson hunt on a maple leaf).

That sounds reasonable ( to me ), if it is part of the official union insignia.

I'm not a labour relations expert. But, I was a member of the same union local for over 36 years. In regard to union insignia on our uniforms, the key words were "public contact". We had the right to wear union insignia (lapel buttons ), and watches from the union to long term members. They had to be "small and non-distracting". You couldn't go around in public looking like walking billboards.

In Toronto, police, fire, paramedic, and TTC vehicles are marked with exterior union insignia.

 

[Remius]

I am of the opinion that Police in general are losing the PR war.  Maybe this is one of those things that they think will help.  But honestly does the average joe civy notice?  It isn’t offensive as far as I can see or even that noticeable in my mind.  Seems like such a minor thing to be going after given the current climate of COVID, Manning issues and morale issues.  Seems like a waste of effort to enforce.

Now, I can see why the Corp Sgt Major is reinforcing standards and dress regs etc.  Morale patches in the CAF is an issue as someone mentioned punisher badges and spartan helmets (not technically spartan but the association is there) etc etc.  And the RCMP is a far more regimented Force than most police forces.

Question for any regular members of the RCMP,  and I guess this could apply to any uniformed force, are those patches or pins acceptable on a full dress uniform?  I guess what I am getting at is why is acceptable on one uniform and not another?

Personally I see no issues with this patch.  But I also believe that an organisation can dictate how it wants to project its image.  Now if the organisation is out of touch with what may or may not be acceptable then I suppose that merits a conversation.

If the the TBL symbol is important then has someone used the proper channels to make that an approved part of the dress regs? 

 

[mariomike]

But honestly does the average joe civy notice? 

Perhaps the first time some noticed was during the Charlottesville white supremacist rally in 2017, when the TBL flag was flown alongside Confederate and Nazi flags.

 

[Jarnhamar]

What's the idea behind displaying union insignia's? Everyone belongs to the union, it seems redundant. 

 

[brihard]

I am of the opinion that Police in general are losing the PR war.  Maybe this is one of those things that they think will help.  But honestly does the average joe civy notice?  It isn’t offensive as far as I can see or even that noticeable in my mind.  Seems like such a minor thing to be going after given the current climate of COVID, Manning issues and morale issues.  Seems like a waste of effort to enforce.

Now, I can see why the Corp Sgt Major is reinforcing standards and dress regs etc.  Morale patches in the CAF is an issue as someone mentioned punisher badges and spartan helmets (not technically spartan but the association is there) etc etc.  And the RCMP is a far more regimented Force than most police forces.

Question for any regular members of the RCMP,  and I guess this could apply to any uniformed force, are those patches or pins acceptable on a full dress uniform?  I guess what I am getting at is why is acceptable on one uniform and not another?

Personally I see no issues with this patch.  But I also believe that an organisation can dictate how it wants to project its image.  Now if the organisation is out of touch with what may or may not be acceptable then I suppose that merits a conversation.

If the the TBL symbol is important then has someone used the proper channels to make that an approved part of the dress regs?

No. What has happened is that management has picked a stupid little fight and have come across as attacking our solidarity as a profession on the altar of ‘wokeness’. The organization as a whole is in crisis right now. Members are dramatically underpaid, our recruiting is suffering badly, detachments are understaffed, soft vacancies are buried in staffing statistics, and the grievance, promotional, harassment, and conduct systems are broken. That’s why members finally fought a case to the Supreme Court to in the right to unionize, and why they pushed to get the numbers to actually certify.

The RCMP is now in a process of collective bargaining. The harassment process as it exists is being scrapped and rebuilt with the authority to find complaints founded or unfounded being taken away from the chain of command. Every member facing a code of conduct investigation/charge under the RCMP act is now being provided with a lawyer by the union in order to hold the disciplinary process accountable. A lot of things are slowly starting to change, and management and treasury board are on notice that some old ways of doing things are no longer going to fly.

The TBL patch issue is management picking a silly and dumb little fight. Total tone-deafness. Members have had enough. And no, this won’t extend to ‘punisher’ patches and dumb crap like that. As a union rep I’ve advised members that they should definitely take those off because we can’t do much to protect them from that.

 

[Jarnhamar]

[quote author=Brihard]

The TBL patch issue is management picking a silly and dumb little fight. Total tone-deafness. Members have had enough. And no, this won’t extend to ‘punisher’ patches and dumb crap like that. As a union rep I’ve advised members that they should definitely take those off because we can’t do much to protect them from that.
[/quote]

I'm pretty tone deaf and even I can come up with a ton of reasons why police officers wearing a Punisher patch is ridiculous.

 

[PuckChaser]

What's the idea behind displaying union insignia's? Everyone belongs to the union, it seems redundant.

Probably harder to tell people not to wear it since it makes the patch have a nexus to union solidarity.

Thin blue line patches have been around for decades as an apolitical show of support for LEOs. No reason a simple Canadian Flag with a thin blue line through it shouldn't be allowed on the uniform.

 

[daftandbarmy]

No. What has happened is that management has picked a stupid little fight and have come across as attacking our solidarity as a profession on the altar of ‘wokeness’. The organization as a whole is in crisis right now. Members are dramatically underpaid, our recruiting is suffering badly, detachments are understaffed, soft vacancies are buried in staffing statistics, and the grievance, promotional, harassment, and conduct systems are broken. That’s why members finally fought a case to the Supreme Court to in the right to unionize, and why they pushed to get the numbers to actually certify.

The RCMP is now in a process of collective bargaining. The harassment process as it exists is being scrapped and rebuilt with the authority to find complaints founded or unfounded being taken away from the chain of command. Every member facing a code of conduct investigation/charge under the RCMP act is now being provided with a lawyer by the union in order to hold the disciplinary process accountable. A lot of things are slowly starting to change, and management and treasury board are on notice that some old ways of doing things are no longer going to fly.

The TBL patch issue is management picking a silly and dumb little fight. Total tone-deafness. Members have had enough. And no, this won’t extend to ‘punisher’ patches and dumb crap like that. As a union rep I’ve advised members that they should definitely take those off because we can’t do much to protect them from that.

Well, it's probably not like it's as important as the challenging 'scramble parking' issue you must be tackling right now as a highest priority item

RCMP union loses 'hot button' battle over free parking spaces in Victoria and Whistler

Labour tribunal rejects union's claim that RCMP changed employee parking policy

Members at Vancouver Island's RCMP headquarters call it "scramble parking."

The region's chief superintendent told a labour tribunal that no-charge spaces in and around the Victoria HQ were at such a premium that staff would regularly scour the parking lot for spaces from the windows during the workday.

And when one came up, they pounced.

"They would leave their workstations or meetings, exit the building, and move their personal vehicles into the vacant spots," the Federal Public Sector Labour Relations and Employment Board said in one of two recent decisions devoted to the problem.

"Parking is a hot button issue. For those who must drive to work, the question of where one can park, and what one must pay to park there can be of significant importance."

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/parking-rcmp-union-victoria-whistler-1.5706964

 

[brihard]

I'm pretty tone deaf and even I can come up with a ton of reasons why police officers wearing a Punisher patch is ridiculous.

Sorry, I wasn’t clear. The union’s not going to bat for anything other than some variant of the TBL patch. Punisher skulls, spartan helmets, all the other dumb some people like to wear are not being defended. Management has the right to manage and dress and deportment is firmly in their wheelhouse, but they pushed this one too far, too arbitrarily, at the wrong time. They managed to make a mockery of themselves in doing so. They galvanized some real solidarity among a lot of worn out and worn down members.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Probably harder to tell people not to wear it since it makes the patch have a nexus to union solidarity.

Thin blue line patches have been around for decades as an apolitical show of support for LEOs. No reason a simple Canadian Flag with a thin blue line through it shouldn't be allowed on the uniform.

I should have quoted. I meant more about MM mentioning the insignia being on vehicles and stuff. Unions have that whole good and bad aspect to them. Protecting their members from getting screwed over, but they also have the image of protecting really bad members.

Union insignias kinda seems in the same vein as having a mess insignia or masons sticker. "Special club" stuff.

I'm personally not a big fan of patches and embellishments (CAF hypocrisy took care of that). Doesn't really bother me when someone else has them and I certainly support professional police officers. I don't think the Canadian flag should be modified however.