Racism in Canada (split from A Deeply Fractured US)

[jacksparrow]

He shouldn't have made the false claim in the first place is my primary point. He is the Premier of a province, a grown man and even teenagers know that racism exist in Canada. Yes any grade 8 kid knows this.

It's always comical also when people refer to visible minority acquaintances as "friends" to meet their objectives. Do you invite these "friends" to your home, to meet your family and mingle with them outside of work???? It's the old BS line that minorities know too well....."I can't be X, because I have friends that are Y"

Remius...the above paragraph is hypothetical and not referring to you specifically!

So he shouldn’t have backtracked?

 

[Jarnhamar]

Who's to say he doesn't truly believe what he said, but the PR folks managed to get him to go out there and actual speak the reality on the street.

I think that's a super astute observation.

We constantly see people in the public eye make statements and then backtrack on them. Is it because they legitimately believe they made a incorrect assessment or observation? Or is it because people on social media are making such a stink about it and it's easier for the person to just say sorry and say what's expected (demanded) of them.

 

[Jarnhamar]

[quote author=jacksparrow]"I can't be X, because I have friends that are Y"

[/quote]
Kind of like "I can't be racist because I'm not white"

 

[jacksparrow]

Yesterday, you claimed to stand with Ford on his comments...you making a 360 as well then i.e. are you big enough to admit you are to lunch just like he was???

I won't hold my breathe.

I think that's a super astute observation.

We constantly see people in the public eye make statements and then backtrack on them. Is it because they legitimately believe they made a incorrect assessment or observation? Or is it because people on social media are making such a stink about it and it's easier for the person to just say sorry and say what's expected (demanded) of them.

 

[jacksparrow]

Minorities in general are not known for going around calling Caucasian names in order to make them feel less human.

All links from today posted above are true life experiences of minorities from different cities, that paint a true picture of the daily life of minorities.

Kind of like "I can't be racist because I'm not white"

 

[Remius]

He shouldn't have made the false claim in the first place is my primary point. He is the Premier of a province, a grown man and even teenagers know that racism exist in Canada. Yes any grade 8 kid knows this.

It's always comical also when people refer to visible minority acquaintances as "friends" to meet their objectives. Do you invite these "friends" to your home, to meet your family and mingle with them outside of work???? It's the old BS line that minorities know too well....."I can't be X, because I have friends that are Y"

Remius...the above paragraph is hypothetical and not referring to you specifically!

I didn’t take it that way. 

I acknowledge my own limited knowledge on the Black expérience in Canada.  For along time, as an example, I had no clue about the history of blacks in Halifax.  But I always endeavour to learn about people’s culture and history.  For me the best way to understand those things is to try and experience what those cultures offer.  I have a very diverse workplace.  I’ve learned more from them through humour and food than any book could offer. 

Back to Ford though.  I think it might be better to assume that his own ignorance on systemic racism in Canada in his initial statement was then tempered after having it explained to him and he came out now to acknowledge. 

Would you not agree that that is progress on his part?

If a white person is unaware of his own biases and recognizes that and acknowledges it but then still gets accused of racism because of what they originally thought or said then how is there any room for growth beyond the state of affairs we are in? 

If people don’t believe that a person can change their view of the world then we’ll never get out of this.

And he didn’t say racism didn’t exist.  He said he didn’t believe we have the same systemic racism.

Systemic racism.  People have a hard time understanding that concept and what it really means.  Or even recognizing it when it is there.

That’s why this is tough.  We all know what racism is.  It’s the systemic part that people have a hard time grasping.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Yesterday, you claimed to stand with Ford on his comments...you making a 360 as well then i.e. are you big enough to admit you are to lunch just like he was???

I won't hold my breathe.

You mean 180.  Doing a 360 would put them back in the same direction.  Does this now mean I am a qualified navigator ?

 

[Good2Golf]

Minorities in general are not known for going around calling Caucasian names in order to make them feel less human.

Nor, in general, are Caucasian majorities...for as long as Caucasians remain a numerical majority in Canada.  Do you have statistics as to what % of Caucasian Canadians call minorities names?

As well, the point noted by many earlier about minorities practicing racist action within and across other minorities and the majority shouldn’t be dismissed either. It exists without doubt...the magnitude, either absolute or relative to their applicable racial populations remains for the most part to be determined, but it exists. Is is something that should have a blind eye turned to it until someone seems that “okay, they’re even now”?  No, that’s principally just as bad as any other instance of racism. 

 

[Remius]

Minorities in general are not known for going around calling Caucasian names in order to make them feel less human.

All links from today posted above are true life experiences of minorities from different cities, that paint a true picture of the daily life of minorities.

Except when they are the majority.  I’ve worked up north and was called “white boy” a lot by the Inuit people I worked with.  One even joked about how white fish was for me since I was a white boy,  it wasn’t out of hate, it was just them, being familiar and joking with me.  I was also called “white meat”.

But yes, it had nothing to do with them trying to make me feel less human.  Or at least that was my take.

But I’ve been called a frog, I’ve been separated because of my language and I’ve been treated differently because of language.  But that was a long time ago and haven’t experienced it in a while.  But nowhere near what visible minorities go through.

The issue I think about being different.  Humans have a hard time Dealing with differences.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Minorities in general are not known for going around calling Caucasian names in order to make them feel less human.

I had a post all typed out but I'll be a good Moderator and bin it.  Lets just say you have no freakin' idea how wrong you are, I spent 7 years living that exact scenario at work, ended up in front of the Ontario Human Rights Board wondering if I would have a pension one day. To my surprise, when presented with the evidence, they ruled in my favour and I eventually got a tiny settlement.  Nothing that could give back the days I sat in the parking lot dreading to go in the building of course, so take your totally bullshit made-up-in-your-head claims and............

 

[Jarnhamar]

Yesterday, you claimed to stand with Ford on his comments...you making a 360 as well then i.e. are you big enough to admit you are to lunch just like he was???

I won't hold my breathe.

You mean am I making a 180. A 360 would put me back where I started, which is a spot I never left.  I don't think we have the same systemic racism that the US does, or perhaps better said same level. Is there still racism in Canada? Absolutely. The way we treat first nations, past and present, is an easy example. The way we disgustingly herded Japanese-Canadians in to camps is another one.

editing in part for fact checking.

 

[Quirky]

Minorities in general are not known for going around calling Caucasian names in order to make them feel less human.

All links from today posted above are true life experiences of minorities from different cities, that paint a true picture of the daily life of minorities.

I’m in my mid-30s, white, have no debt, two new cars and I’m financially secure. This is the most hated demographic in society.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Minorities in general are not known for going around calling Caucasian names in order to make them feel less human.

Maybe in your experience;  what would you say if I told you a FN superior officer once referred to me and my coursemates as "you effin white guys"? 

Racism exits in Canada, and it isn't perpetuated only from white Canadians.  Sorry if that bursts your bubble.

I've lived and worked in quite a few provinces in Canada, for almost 3 decades since high school.  My opinion, which I'm entitled to, is that yes there is racism in Canada, it isn't limited to 'white people against XYZ', but it also isn't systemic.

From a post of your earlier:

He shouldn't have made the false claim in the first place is my primary point. He is the Premier of a province, a grown man and even teenagers know that racism exist in Canada. Yes any grade 8 kid knows this.

According to your own first post in this thread, he didn't say "racism doesn't exist in Canada".  He said...(according to you)

" Doug Ford says Canada doesn’t have the “systemic, deep roots” of racism that the United States does.

See the difference? 

Reading thru the thread, this is what it is like to watch you try to force your argument and logic together against anyone who doesn't 100% agree with you. 

Over and above that, your posts in this thread come across as very hostile and provoking.  Not all Canadians (regardless of their skin color..) are racist.  Full stop.  There is no argument on this point.

 

[FSTO]

If we want to prioritize time and resources to people to enable them to become less of the losers in modern society then IMO it should look like this"

1. Indigenous Canadians - Previous governments broke them and that we as a first world nation have people living in such squalor and hopelessness that their only way out is suicide is a blight on this country.

2. Mental Health - The idea that closing down institutions and putting these folks on the street so that the "community" will support them is almost criminally bad. That first responders are now front line social workers is a burden that should never be put on those people.

3. Visible Minority underclass - More education resources and more integration efforts to rise above the poor hand they were born with.

During my 50+ years on this earth, I cannot remember the amount of times there has been a rise up of the people to protest the inequities of society during that time period. Promises are made, quotas established, and task groups are formed. And here we are in 2020 and has anything really advanced all that much? I actually do see progress from the macro level but there are things like First Nations Reserve Squalor that seem to have no solutions to bridge that yawning gap between our cultures in Canada. 

 

[mariomike]

Mental Health - The idea that closing down institutions and putting these folks on the street so that the "community" will support them is almost criminally bad. That first responders are now front line social workers is a burden that should never be put on those people.

Case in the local news these days about an Afro-Indigenous woman did a "dry dive" from the 24th floor in West Toronto during a wellness check,
https://www.google.com/search?sxsrf=ALeKk00gew9LLw0dQJy4ZePu-vT0vxFPbA%3A1591373103778&ei=L23aXoqPL8aDtQbEx7e4Ag&q=%22Regis+Korchinski-Paquet%22+%22wellness+check%22&oq=%22Regis+Korchinski-Paquet%22+%22wellness+check%22&gs_lcp=CgZwc3ktYWIQAzIFCCEQoAE6BAgAEAM6BQgAEIMBOgcIABCDARBDOgIIADoHCCEQChCgAVDCZljflAFgv5kBaABwAHgAgAGPAYgB5A-SAQQyLjE2mAEAoAEBqgEHZ3dzLXdpeg&sclient=psy-ab&ved=0ahUKEwjK4rjkhuvpAhXGQc0KHcTjDScQ4dUDCAs&uact=5#spf=1591373127559

 

[Brad Sallows]

Up-thread a point was made about how well immigrants fare.

We can't just lump immigrants by point of origin, track them and measure their well-being, and draw conclusions.  Immigrants come to Canada by different paths.  Some have to score well on a points assessment and probably come here with some assets; some are admitted as refugees and probably come here with almost nothing.

Another recurring question, which arises in all aspects of social welfare, is "why is X still a problem"? 

Many solutions are proposed.  If we could measure likelihood of success in advance, we could plot "useless to useful" on a horizontal axis; if we could rank them by how aesthetically or ideologically appealing they are we could plot "not very to very" on a vertical axis.  The upper right quadrant would be the sweet spot; the lower left quadrant would be the least desirable.  Objectively, we should not heed the second measure at all, but it exerts a huge influence.  We fail because the second quality is easier to gauge than the first and is not dismissed as a factor, so we end up with a lot of situated estimates, and thus solutions, that fit the way people want the world to be but which contribute little towards solving the problems.

For example, a UVic study (not yet complete) has very recently gained some publicity: "Forthcoming research out of the University of Victoria's economics department finds that the introduction of collective bargaining produces somewhat higher compensation for police officers. It does not correlate with a reduction in total crime%u2014but it does eventually correlate with higher numbers of killings by police, especially of minorities."

This is aesthetically and ideologically unappealing to people whose political instinct is to favour police unions.  So what is the likelihood that effective reform on this particular point will happen?

 

[Remius]

Interesting study I will have to read.  Thanks for that.

So it says that unionized police forces tend to have higher incidents of killings of minorities?

I wonder how that compares to an organisation like the RCMP pre-collective bargaining.  Will be interested to see how that goes now that they formed a union.

 

[jacksparrow]

I'll say how convenient in your quest to make a point. Additionally, I'll ask why you and your crse mates didn't address it? Remember, we're told everyone is a leader, and it behoves us all to address matters like this. If you aren't speaking up, you're part of the problem.

what would you say if I told you a FN superior officer once referred to me and my coursemates as "you effin white guys"? 

 

[jacksparrow]

Congratulations...so you paid cash for 2 new cars and your house is mortgage free. Certificate of accomplishment is on its way to you!

I’m in my mid-30s, white, have no debt, two new cars and I’m financially secure. This is the most hated demographic in society.

 

[Gunplumber]

Jacksparrow. Are you actually in the Military?