Racism in Canada (split from A Deeply Fractured US)

[YZT580]

well spoken Jarnhamer. 

 

[CBH99]

As much as I don't like the fact that everybody has a smart phone these days (I've really tried to adhere to a 30-day phone detox, which, if you haven't tried, I highly recommend doing what you can)

It IS nice that people like this can be recorded & publicly shamed. 



Not in a petty sense.  But perhaps he'll see the video, and realize "Wow" - and have some self awareness, and possibly some self improvement come of it. 

 

[mariomike]

It IS nice that people like this can be recorded & publicly shamed. 

Peel Police are investigating it as a "hate incident". They are trying to identify him.

Twitter people say they are not only going "name and shame" him, they are going to forward the video to his employer ( if he has one ).

There is a Gofundme account set up for the affected employee(s).

Makes one wonder, if that is how he feels about Asian people, why shop at T and T?

 

[YZT580]

probably doesn't feel that way about Asians in particular.  There are tons of folks out there who don't like anyone who doesn't belong to their own culture.  Thus we have racial ghettos and those people who locate in Bramalea because they are Hindu and Bramalea has a large minority of Hindus are every bit as racist as this chap.  They are just more polite about it.

 

[Xylric]

We had my niece and her grandmother visit for the day to give my brother and his wife a quiet day of work. I spent two hours watching a news program from Kenya with my sister's mother (ten years they've been together, and I'm still wrapping my head around the fact that there's no such thing as in-laws in their culture), along with several dozen commercials.

Many, if not all of the products being advertised were either brands we have available here (Coca-Cola, for example) or an equivalent local product (such as telecommunications). Not a person of European ancestry to be seen in any of them. Every single one of those advertisements were functionally the same as the ones we would see here, even accounting for differences in culture. The way the news is handled in Kenya is very, very different from what we grow up with here, because there is a general lack of what I would call "commentary." The news focuses on the facts, and just the facts. Not a talking head to be seen.

My sister's mother noticed the utter curiosity with which I was watching the program, and so I simply asked her a question which has been bugging me ever since I was introduced to my sister and her family. I asked her about her opinion on the idea that exists here in Canada and elsewhere about how the "personal is political." She didn't understand the concept, because her worldview is so heavily focused on the community itself that it just came across as child-like selfishness. An interesting perspective, to say the least.

So I asked if my brother ever dealt with racism when he was visiting Kenya, and the response I got was essentially "Only when haggling in the marketplaces, because people would see his white skin, recognize that he is from a land swimming in wealth but not in sense, and deal with him accordingly." The interesting thing is, my brother is a master negotiator, and actually *enjoys* haggling, so he surprised more than a few merchants in the process.

When you seek only mutually beneficial interactions, racism disintegrates.

 

[CBH99]

Peel Police are investigating it as a "hate incident". They are trying to identify him.

Twitter people say they are not only going "name and shame" him, they are going to forward the video to his employer ( if he has one ).

There is a Gofundme account set up for the affected employee(s).

Makes one wonder, if that is how he feels about Asian people, why shop at T and T?

Haha, that's a good point MM.  I'm sure there's a Safeway somewhere nearby he could have gone to 

 

[mariomike]

probably doesn't feel that way about Asians in particular. 

I doubt Peel Police care much about his feelings.

It's the words out of his mouth they are investigating as a hate incident.

Peel Regional Police

This is being investigated as a hate-motivated incident. Anyone with information, such as the identity of the man, is asked to call 905-453-3311 ext. 1133 or Crime Stoppers.
https://twitter.com/AkhilMooken/status/1281028737216233472

 

[OldSolduer]

When I see videos like that I wonder if perhaps (sometimes) it's not a matter of systemic racism where all these people hate other races but simply a matter of people being assholes because we as a society have gotten off on being an ******* for the last 30 years. maybe instead of being borderline supremacists these people are just dumb and can't articulate their emotions/feelings/thoughts very well so they go for the lowest hanging fruit and attack someones race?

Big of a tangent about treating people bad.

30 years ago Americans Funniest Home videos hit the screens. 30 seasons, ran for 10 years and what were some of the most popular videos? People getting hurt.

20 Years ago Survivor hit the screens and ushered in the era of reality TV. It's still going. Do we tune in for the slick survival skills? Or to watch the drama, fighting and backstabbing.

Cops ran from 1989 to 2 months ago. Lots of TV shows center on the suffering or humiliation of others (bachelor, big brother).

We also love our memes. Subtle (and not so subtle) ways to say frig you to people and laugh at them or their misfortune. Look at Milnet.ca's political cartoon thread. Basically a meme thread with left and right saying frig you to each other while smiling.

We brought up Cpl Bloggins. I've mentioned it here before but when you see what Cpl Bloggins actually posted it wasn't really bad. He'd make a comment like "girls in the military, right?" or something fairly ambiguous and the real vitriol came from everyone else. He'd light a match and everyone else would throw gas on. Dumb. Like the sgt or WO in DEUs posting under his own name calling a Capt a c**t and making fun of her name who got nailed with a $1000 charge IIRC. Raging misogynist or someone who's been taught (conditioned?) to think that being hateful to someone else is acceptable.


I could be way off in left field or totally wrong but I think in a lot of these cases it could be because people just forgot how to respect and treat each other. A lot of people are just shitty to each other.

Actually the decline started in the 70s with TV commercials showing parents playing board games with kids. The parents lost every time and were made to look utterly stupid.

If it was Dad versus the kids Dad always ended up losing to the kids and was made to look like an (Can I say this) idiot.

If it was Dad versus Mom , Dad lost. Every time.

:2c:

 

[daftandbarmy]

Actually the decline started in the 70s with TV commercials showing parents playing board games with kids. The parents lost every time and were made to look utterly stupid.

If it was Dad versus the kids Dad always ended up losing to the kids and was made to look like an (Can I say this) idiot.

If it was Dad versus Mom , Dad lost. Every time.

:2c:

Dude, have you got a surveillance camera hidden in my house somewhere? #unofailure

 

[Eaglelord17]

I doubt Peel Police care much about his feelings.

It's the words out of his mouth they are investigating as a hate incident.

That is terrifying. The government should NEVER be trying to determine what you can or cannot say, or what you can or cannot think. It is a violation of our Charter Rights (Right to Freedom of thought, opinion and expression), and should not be tolerated.

The talk coming out of the government in recent months is unacceptable. They believe they have the right to force their opinions and thoughts on others. Such as stating they will root out racism wherever it is found (not that they can even agree on a definition as to what is or isn't racist). That is not the role of the government in a democracy and reminds me of such things as the residential schools where the government believed they were doing what was best for society.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Thanks YZT.



I wonder a sort of Salem 1692 thing will happen with "hate crimes".

Suspect identified after Pride crosswalk defaced outside West Vancouver police station
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/pride-crosswalk-west-vancouver-1.5642701

"gesture of hate"
The guy spun his tires on a crosswalk.

Are we running a risk of potent, powerful words like hate and racism becoming overused and muddled?

 

[mariomike]

That is terrifying.

Even more terrifying if / when the internet identifies the individual, and forwards the video to his employer.

( Depending, of course, if he has an employer, and who the employer is. )

Police are now investigating the incident as hate-motivated and have identified a suspect. They are urging him to seek council and turn himself in.
https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/prime-minister-weighs-in-on-video-of-racist-anti-mask-rant-at-toronto-supermarket-1.5019056?cache=piqndqvkh

 

[ModlrMike]

There's already a precedent with someone being fired for actions not related to their employment being given their job back. Remember the FHRITP guy? Besides, if the whole point of reconciliation is that people learn and grow, what does ruining a person's complete life and livelihood have them learn? Not that I'm excusing his behaviour, but a certain degree of proportionality is required.

 

[Kat Stevens]

There's already a precedent with someone being fired for actions not related to their employment being given their job back. Remember the FHRITP guy? Besides, if the whole point of reconciliation is that people learn and grow, what does ruining a person's complete life and livelihood have them learn? Not that I'm excusing his behaviour, but a certain degree of proportionality is required.

You run the risk of turning them into a zealot. If blowing up a man's hut can turn him from a moderate to a radical, blowing up his life by doxing him and, by extension his family, could have every bit the same result.

 

[mariomike]

Remember the FHRITP guy?

For those who do not,

Harrasment in public..Hydro One fires "jerk" for reporter prank 
https://army.ca/forums/threads/119361.150
8 pages.

Shawn "made amends". "including voluntary sensitivity training and a donation to the White Ribbon campaign."
He also apologised in writing to the reporter.

He was also a member of a union. The union took it to arbitration, and won.

Legal experts at the time said, "a non-unionized worker in his shoes would have a much harder time regaining their job."

A key factor was that his job description did not involve interaction with the public.

In firing decisions where I worked for off-duty conduct, the arbitrator has sided with the City. The arbitrator ruled we are held to a high standard of professional conduct - even off duty. 

They may, or may not, be offered a lower paying job in another City department.

Most of the off-duty career suicides I am aware of have been via social media.

Maybe the T and T guy is un/self-employed, or has a very tolerant employer.

I'm sure there's a Safeway somewhere nearby he could have gone to 

:goodpost:

 

[BeyondTheNow]

While not speaking solely about this video on its own, but more generally of similar instances, I don’t entertain the sentiment of ‘just a bad day, maybe a person is stressed out/extenuating circumstances’ etc. as touched on earlier in the thread.

When we’re stressed/angry/in a heightened state of emotional turbulence (for whatever reason) a series of functions occurring in our bodies includes heighten cortisol levels which reduce neurons to our prefrontal cortex. In short, we’re quite literally incapable of thinking straight—we typically exact poorer judgement in those moments. (Some become stressed out more easily than others. NOTE: Again, speaking generally. We know that training exists related to certain fields to better cope with stressful situations.)

Anyway, without getting too much into the physiology of why some react how they do during crisis, the bottom line is that racial slurs/comments with racial undertones, derogatory statements, elevated threats, actions portraying unbalanced and intense entitlement, etc (think the Costco guy and the Amy Coopers of the world) don’t occur unless the person already maintains those thoughts/feelings/beliefs when calm—when they’re able to think before they speak—when they’re more adequately able to control their thought/mouth filters.

Yes, we’ve all said things we don’t mean when angry. But the majority don’t resort to bringing ethnicity, at any level, into the argument/conflict.

 

[brihard]

That is terrifying. The government should NEVER be trying to determine what you can or cannot say, or what you can or cannot think. It is a violation of our Charter Rights (Right to Freedom of thought, opinion and expression), and should not be tolerated.

The talk coming out of the government in recent months is unacceptable. They believe they have the right to force their opinions and thoughts on others. Such as stating they will root out racism wherever it is found (not that they can even agree on a definition as to what is or isn't racist). That is not the role of the government in a democracy and reminds me of such things as the residential schools where the government believed they were doing what was best for society.

Really? There are absolutely cases in which an expression can be a criminal offense or civil wrong, and rightly so. You don't get to utter threats (S.264.1 CC). You don't get to advocate genocide (S. 318 CC) or wilfully incite hate (S. 319 CC). You don't get to defame by libel and slander (civil torts).

This is not the government forcing opinions or thoughts on people. It's the government determining that some things are concretely harmful.

Beyond that there is the more nebulous world in which hate motivation is a factor in sentencing. Other than Ss. 318 and 319, 'hate' does not form any basis for offences in its own right, but where something that is already illegal anyway (e.g., assaults, threats, causing a disturbance, mischief, etc) is hate motivated, it can be considered an aggravating factor in sentencing (S. 718.2(a)(i) CC) , in order to deter people from committing things that are already independently criminal, because they think it's OK to do that because they hate an identifiable group.

So no, the state has not gone and newly criminalised anything because of new societal beliefs around what hate constitutes. 'hate crimes' are basically not a thing in Canada outside of the narrow scope of Ss. 318 and 319 which are both extremely rarely used. Instead the state has said 'if you insist on being a crappy person and do something that's already illegal because you hate a group, that will be a consideration in your sentencing'. This will not affect anyone who doesn't commit a crime.

There is the entirely separate realm of the various human rights commissions/tribunals at federal or provincial levels, but those don't involve police or criminal sanction and are outside the scope of this thread so far.

 

[mariomike]

Looks like his wife ( or caregiver? ) is trying to steer him off-camera.  https://twitter.com/Bauhini78869713/status/1279867266373423104

Not wearing a mask either.

Love her tolerant expression.

Sounds like some Espanol thrown in.

May be best for all concerned if he waits in the car, and let her go in.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Really? There are absolutely cases in which an expression can be a criminal offense or civil wrong, and rightly so. You don't get to utter threats (S.264.1 CC). You don't get to advocate genocide (S. 318 CC) or wilfully incite hate (S. 319 CC). You don't get to defame by libel and slander (civil torts).

This is not the government forcing opinions or thoughts on people. It's the government determining that some things are concretely harmful.

Beyond that there is the more nebulous world in which hate motivation is a factor in sentencing. Other than Ss. 318 and 319, 'hate' does not form any basis for offences in its own right, but where something that is already illegal anyway (e.g., assaults, threats, causing a disturbance, mischief, etc) is hate motivated, it can be considered an aggravating factor in sentencing (S. 718.2(a)(i) CC) , in order to deter people from committing things that are already independently criminal, because they think it's OK to do that because they hate an identifiable group.

So no, the state has not gone and newly criminalised anything because of new societal beliefs around what hate constitutes. 'hate crimes' are basically not a thing in Canada outside of the narrow scope of Ss. 318 and 319 which are both extremely rarely used. Instead the state has said 'if you insist on being a crappy person and do something that's already illegal because you hate a group, that will be a consideration in your sentencing'. This will not affect anyone who doesn't commit a crime.

There is the entirely separate realm of the various human rights commissions/tribunals at federal or provincial levels, but those don't involve police or criminal sanction and are outside the scope of this thread so far.

I don't often watch TV series, but I recall one episode of 'Life on Mars' where Jason O'Mara plays a cop who travels back in time - from 2008 to 1973 - and meets up with another (1973 version) cop, played by Harvey Keitel.

They're looking over the details of a crime and O'Mara says 'This looks like a Hate Crime!'.

Keitel looks at him strangely and says ... As opposed to an "I really, really love you crime?"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_on_Mars_(American_TV_series)

 

[ModlrMike]

The BBC version was way, way better. As was the follow-on, Ashes to Ashes. Rumour has it that there's a third series in the works for UK tv.