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Pro/Anti Child Bearing Policies (split from "Canada don’t matter" thread)

50K? Is that what you live off? is that net or gross? I know 50k is not supporting me and my family, guess I shouldn't have had those kids after all. That's ok, I already plan to work myself to death. Do you factor in that some people getting OAS will still have kids and spouses to support? It still plays out to have kids, get money and then when you age out you are on your own with them or does your plan put an age limit on who can have the kids?

We already pay people to have kids - claim them on taxes, give the child benefit if you make under x dollars, welfare if you can't work. In Ontario a family of 4 (2 kids, 2 adults) can get approx 34k a year for doing nothing and the plan is to restrict the person that has worked their whole life supporting their family and paying taxes to a level barely above them. Why penalize the worker instead of encouraging them?

I do agree that something has to be done but don't agree hitting OAS is the answer or at least the sole answer. Why are we paying so many people to sit home and do nothing while bringing in more people to work? Put the people we already have to work. Farmer needs crop pickers, we have all kinds of them already. Want that welfare check? Start picking. Stores need staff - lots here already.
 
50K? Is that what you live off? is that net or gross? I know 50k is not supporting me and my family, guess I shouldn't have had those kids after all. That's ok, I already plan to work myself to death. Do you factor in that some people getting OAS will still have kids and spouses to support? It still plays out to have kids, get money and then when you age out you are on your own with them or does your plan put an age limit on who can have the kids?

We already pay people to have kids - claim them on taxes, give the child benefit if you make under x dollars, welfare if you can't work. In Ontario a family of 4 (2 kids, 2 adults) can get approx 34k a year for doing nothing and the plan is to restrict the person that has worked their whole life supporting their family and paying taxes to a level barely above them. Why penalize the worker instead of encouraging them?

I do agree that something has to be done but don't agree hitting OAS is the answer or at least the sole answer. Why are we paying so many people to sit home and do nothing while bringing in more people to work? Put the people we already have to work. Farmer needs crop pickers, we have all kinds of them already. Want that welfare check? Start picking. Stores need staff - lots here already.
you sound like you are or were a Mike Harris fan!! Totally agree though. No one should receive money for sitting on their ass.
 
50K? Is that what you live off? is that net or gross? I know 50k is not supporting me and my family, guess I shouldn't have had those kids after all. That's ok, I already plan to work myself to death. Do you factor in that some people getting OAS will still have kids and spouses to support? It still plays out to have kids, get money and then when you age out you are on your own with them or does your plan put an age limit on who can have the kids?

We already pay people to have kids - claim them on taxes, give the child benefit if you make under x dollars, welfare if you can't work. In Ontario a family of 4 (2 kids, 2 adults) can get approx 34k a year for doing nothing and the plan is to restrict the person that has worked their whole life supporting their family and paying taxes to a level barely above them. Why penalize the worker instead of encouraging them?

I do agree that something has to be done but don't agree hitting OAS is the answer or at least the sole answer. Why are we paying so many people to sit home and do nothing while bringing in more people to work? Put the people we already have to work. Farmer needs crop pickers, we have all kinds of them already. Want that welfare check? Start picking. Stores need staff - lots here already.
Generally OAS was intended to be a supplement income for those who were less fortunate.

When your retired your not supposed to be supporting you and your family, at that point in life it is generally you and maybe your partner. Generally you have your housing paid off, and generally your expected to have savings to take care of yourself.

If 50k a year isn’t enough income to support your lifestyle retired, then your living extravagantly or have lived your life negligently. I know plenty of people who make less than 50k a year, don’t receive any money from the government, and still survive.

OAS is welfare, it isn’t CPP. It isn’t paid into your whole life. It isn’t something you or me are entitled to, it is something the state provides out of the goodness of their heart. Cutting the money provided to those who don’t need it and giving it to those that do is smart policy. If your making up to 134k a year you don’t deserve a cent of my tax dollars to fund your extravagance well most the working class is living and earning less.

I am not ok with welfare either, OAS is basically welfare for old people.
 
Planting this here to fertilize the "how do we get mo' babies?" discussion - one country's proposed approach ....

In today's news regarding child marriage....

MAY 17, 2024


Child marriage will remain legal in Missouri for at least another year
 
What are the social consequences of couples having wealth generation as their primary reason for wanting to have children rather than an actual desire to raise a family?
What is the social consequences of families not having enough funds to survive themselves, let alone raise a child?

The housing crisis and cost of living crisis ties into this equation as well. Children are expensive and when people can’t/can barely afford to survive at the moment that can be a large factor in not having children.
 
What are the social consequences of couples having wealth generation as their primary reason for wanting to have children rather than an actual desire to raise a family?
Children used as economic tools is nothing new. For millennia they have been used as tools to cement alliances, forge economic unions, pass on wealth, estate and legacy etc etc.
 
Planting this here to fertilize the "how do we get mo' babies?" discussion - one country's proposed approach ....
"Could a $70,000 Baby Bonus Solve South Korea’s Fertility Crisis?"
View attachment 85264
Article also archived here if earlier link doesn't work for you.
Would that work in Canada? That is a pretty big “big govt” approach that would add a ton of debt.

What are the social consequences of couples having wealth generation as their primary reason for wanting to have children rather than an actual desire to raise a family?
I don’t know about the country-wide social consequences but I wouldn’t want to be a kid in that sort of family…
 
What are the social consequences of couples having wealth generation as their primary reason for wanting to have children rather than an actual desire to raise a family?
has existed for years in the child welfare system. Couples that foster larger numbers of kids often use it as primary income. Can be quite profitable
 
Children used as economic tools is nothing new. For millennia they have been used as tools to cement alliances, forge economic unions, pass on wealth, estate and legacy etc etc.
and take care of me in my dotage.
 
has existed for years in the child welfare system. Couples that foster larger numbers of kids often use it as primary income. Can be quite profitable

And any social worker can tell you all about how that works ...
 
Planting this here to fertilize the "how do we get mo' babies?" discussion - one country's proposed approach ....
"Could a $70,000 Baby Bonus Solve South Korea’s Fertility Crisis?"
View attachment 85264
Article also archived here if earlier link doesn't work for you.

South Korean immigration levels are just about zero though. Like Japan, they are famous xenophobes and it will cost them dearly...


Korea could disappear from map if it doesn't welcome more immigrants: justice minister

Justice Minister Han Dong-hoon warned, Wednesday, that Korea could disappear from the map unless the nation implements effective immigration policies, and called for parliamentary support for his ministry's push to launch a new government agency handling immigration affairs.

"When it comes to immigration policies, we have passed the stage of deliberating whether to implement them or not. Because if we don't, we cannot escape the fate of extinction due to the demographic catastrophe," Han said during a meeting with lawmakers of the ruling People Power Party (PPP) at the National Assembly in Seoul.


 
Not sure incentives on 3rd childs is the way to go when we are likely headed to sub 1 fertility, although one shouldnt underestimate the impact of super breeders

Hard to see how child care can be reasonably priced in a lot of cases, especially if it is licensed and regulated. Does the child care provider not need to earn an income too? Or just another govt subsidized thing.

eg make $20/hr work 44 hrs a week = $880 gross, $10 a kid daycare where available
Home daycares can be a profitable avenue for individuals to take if they sign on with a licensing agency that has access to the Canadian Government Childcare grant. In Ontario, where I have current experience, the maximum children under 6 a single caregiver can have, including their own children, is 6. So if a parent decides to stay home with their first child after their 1 year or 18 months of maternity benefits, they can have five other children in their care. In our area, the cap providers can charge is $55/day, of which parents are currently paying $15-$18/day to the provider, and the agency pays the provider the other $40ish dollars. That adds up to approximately $71,500 gross income per year. Depending on the individual home daycare set up, about 50% of that can be expensed, and as a home business, things like a percentage of mortgage interest/rent, utilities, groceries, property taxes, etc. qualifies. Basically things you'd be paying for anyways out of a normal salary.

The problem lies in that as your family grows, the number of childcare slots you can provide declines until your children reach school age.
 
you sound like you are or were a Mike Harris fan!! Totally agree though. No one should receive money for sitting on their ass.
Sorry, don't really know anything about him other than recognizing his name and some people hated him while others liked him.
Generally OAS was intended to be a supplement income for those who were less fortunate.

When your retired your not supposed to be supporting you and your family, at that point in life it is generally you and maybe your partner. Generally you have your housing paid off, and generally your expected to have savings to take care of yourself.

If 50k a year isn’t enough income to support your lifestyle retired, then your living extravagantly or have lived your life negligently. I know plenty of people who make less than 50k a year, don’t receive any money from the government, and still survive.

OAS is welfare, it isn’t CPP. It isn’t paid into your whole life. It isn’t something you or me are entitled to, it is something the state provides out of the goodness of their heart. Cutting the money provided to those who don’t need it and giving it to those that do is smart policy. If your making up to 134k a year you don’t deserve a cent of my tax dollars to fund your extravagance well most the working class is living and earning less.

I am not ok with welfare either, OAS is basically welfare for old people.
So you do put an age limit on when people can have children and receive benefits.

Housing paid off - that would be nice but in reality not everyone has had the chance to purchase a house due to various circumstances. Yes some they control but not everything is within our control. In some cases building a large down payment simply has not been possible and in some rent has been more affordable than buying. Some cases homes within price ranges simply were not available while others were priced out due to bidding from people with deeper pockets. Then there is that little pesky issue of not enough houses for our population size that keeps some out of owning.

Or they lived their life supporting family which some people do say having children is negligent but then isn't that the point - for us to have children?? Living extravagantly is off for some unless you consider feeding everyone and having a bus pass. I know for myself don't have a car or cable/satellite TV as I prefer to feed my kids. My parents had 15 kids, both worked, bought a house and when retired neither could afford to live without OAS. What they did wrong was to have a large family to feed, I know that was horribly wrong of them.

Yes some changes are needed but there is more than just "oh he makes this amount, doesn't deserve anything" to factor in as it is not just a matter of surviving, someone that has worked 40 - 50 years should be able to live comfortably. By some stats a single person in Canada on average needs up to $45k to cover basics so I see $50k too low for a senior in most Canadian locations while I do agree that $134k is too high for a lot. I believe there needs to be a family size and location factor in there. Maybe 2 parents renting in Toronto or Vancouver with 1 kid needs a little more than that single guy in Yarmouth living in the family inherited house.

OAS is similar to welfare except for one major difference - it is helping some old people that have worked their entire lives paying taxes that have funded this country while welfare is largely paying people that won't work or pay taxes. I would rather my money go to the OAS than welfare but understand a need for both as not everyone's circumstance is the same. Personally, I don't think providing more money for more kids to someone on welfare while the father(s) are claiming bad backs so not able to work is the way to go either (but they can spend all day working on their car - hmmmm).
. In our area, the cap providers can charge is $55/day, of which parents are currently paying $15-$18/day to the provider, and the agency pays the provider the other $40ish dollars. That adds up to approximately $71,500 gross income per year.
But that doesn't mesh with the government $10 a day they just pushed. 😁

Here is another idea - instead of paying a daycare $40 a day why not pay the parent that money directly so they can stay home and take care of their children if they want to or use it to pay a daycare. Adding that amount to the savings from not going to work may be enough for some to choose staying home. I know my wife would be happy to have it.
 
Hey how about a tax on the rich? Like those that make over $150K per year....

Tax The Rich Joe Biden GIF by GIPHY News
 
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