Political Correctness gone too far?

[Thompson_JM]

I lived there i know what he did and who he is.

thats pretty impressive that you had such a keen interest in politics between the ages of 6-13. When I was that age I spent most of my time watching cartoons and playing GI Joes and Lego....

During the Time Harris was  in i didn't even spend that much time really looking into it... I was too busy trying to get through those 5 (now 4) crappy years called high school. (thanks to the Harris Gov. students are now being thrown into post secondary with even less of a clue of what they want to do with there life...)

If I were you Id read the Bio's on Rae, Harris and McGuinty.

Rae didn't make all the right decisions but he also had to deal with a MAJOR reccession... not something anyone would really want to have to deal with...

I think the big problem people had with Harris was that he said he would use common sense to trim the fat....

then he made single moms work for their welfare, and cut day care (who the hell takes care of their kid? the dad whose already knocked up 3 other women? yeah right....) He introduced an entirely new curriculum to the school system... All at once with no chance to really review it.... and appointed a high school dropout as education minister.. (John Snobellen did not get an OSSD... by all accounts I am a better Educated and more qualified man to be the minister of education then he is...)  lets face it... Harris was not the best man for the job... he was a failed teacher come Golf Course Pro/Manager.....   

So why did he win?

well Geo pretty much hit the nail on the head...  People wanted Rae out, and during the leadership debates he proved himself to be the most worthy leader. he sounded strong, confidant, and gave answers people liked. McGuinty was too new, and Hampton was just useless... and that was the case in both elections that he won.

It can be argued that this was the same reason Stephen Harper won the last election, albeit by a minority... people were sick to death of the Liberals, and of Paul Martin. Given the options Canadians really only had one choice...

I do have to disagree with Geo that Harris had to make cuts where he could. I think some of it may have been the case, but he definitely had a serious hard-on for messing with the teachers.... he did everything he could to make them look like they were just wasting taxpayers money and basically turned everyone against them... and i mean come on....

"In 2001, the Harris government introduced a plan to give a tax credit for parents who send their children to private and denominational schools (despite having campaigned against this in 1999)." 

The reason he did this is cause he knew the public system went to S@#T under his government, and he wanted to send his kids to the better schools. he just didn't want to pay full price....   

fact is, if parents can afford to send there kids to private schools they make enough to NOT need the tax credit...  how many moms have you seen pick up their kids from a Montessori school while driving a beat up rusted out Honda?

by the time he left office he had no integrity left.... i mean we shouldn't look too much into a politicians personal life but yikes...

"Harris has been married three times, and has two children"

  three times... he left politics because his wife left him.... the man couldn't manage a relationship... why  should we trust him with a province? 

..In late 2003, he made a speech in Halifax which many believed was the unofficial launch of a campaign to lead the new Conservative Party of Canada. Within weeks, however, he unexpectedly announced his decision to drop out of the race.

Many believe that heightened media attention on Harris's private life was the reason for his decision. He had recently separated from his wife a second time and was in a relationship with Laura Maguire, the ex-wife of hockey player and referee Kevin Maguire. It was alleged, through court documents relating to a custody battle, that Laura had spent lavishly and neglected her three children while dating Harris. Faced with this negative publicity, Harris decided to stand aside; he later endorsed former Magna International President and CEO Belinda Stronach, in the 2004 Conservative Party of Canada leadership election.

OK... yes it is only alleged, but at the same time, it does make you have to question the integrity of this guy... there are more then enough other bad decisions he made, or ethical quagmires in his political history, but I'm not going to draw out every single one..

The Simple Fact of the matter is. Harris promised to cut waste within the government... He didn't state that he would do that by drastically slashing pretty much any program he had control over, privatising Ontario Hydro. which his friends made ALOT of money off of.

"During his tenure, a number of his close aides such as Jaime Watt, Deb Hutton, Tom Long and Paul Rhodes benefited from millions of dollars in untendered contracts with government agencies, particularly Hydro One, which operates the province's electricity grid. This resulted in a major scandal for the party when the details of these arrangements were revealed in late 2003 (i.e., just after the Tories were removed from office)."

AND downloading too much onto municipalities without really increasing the amount of money given to them by the Government of Ontario...

Yeah real great guy.... I wonder if i can get him to watch my house while im away, I mean come on... he seems really trustworthy...

Regards
     Josh

*** Edited to clean up and add quote bubbles***

 

[ChopperHead]

I didnt have to have a keen interest in politics I saw the end result of the actions. I was the second class year to be put through the new curiculum. I personally think it was a good move to update the education system. At first it was not very well put together and there were alot of people running around with their heads cut off sorta speak but now it's getting most of those kinks out and is settling in. Other provinces are following suite and mkaing changes and upgrades to their education systems as well.

 

[nULL]

...you just had nothing to compare and contrast it with, which makes all the difference. Changes to an institution such as an education system should be GRADUAL, lest the initial test subjects (that's you) end up with a sub-par education during one of the most important periods of their lives.

there's a joke here, but I'm not touching it.  ;D

 

[Thompson_JM]

If this curriculum is so great then why is it we seem to have stupider youth then ever before.... or maybe I'm just starting to get old and crusty....

nULL hit the nail on the head. you have nothing else to base it on...

 

[ChopperHead]

I never said it was all great and wonderfull. I hated it because it's harder lol from a student stand point it sucks cause you have to work harder but the world is changing and the education system has to too. doing the same curriculum that my parents did really isnt going to be as efective or as usefull anymore. it's diffrent times and a diffrent world.

we have an abundance of stupider kids now because we have an abundance of lazy ass retarded parents and the school systems are so caught up in political correctness and zero tolerance policys.

 

[aesop081]

we have an abundance of stupider kids now because we have an abundance of lazy *** retarded parents

Agreed

the school systems are so caught up in political correctness

Again, agreed

zero tolerance policys.

Now, what wrong with zero tolerance POLICIES ?

 

[Kat Stevens]

Ah, yes, blame Mummy and Daddy for everything.... Dr Freud, table for one?  :

 

[aesop081]

Ah, yes, blame Mummy and Daddy for everything.... Dr Freud, table for one?   :

I know what you mean Kat but in alot of cases if mom and Dad got themselves involved in raising their kids, things would turn out different.  i am not saying parents should shoulder the blame for everything.

Anyways, this is way off the "political correctness" topic

 

[ChopperHead]

The problem with Zero tolerance policies is that just send people home all the time for the smallest idiotic things. It's badly put together and school these days is more like prison then a school. Things that when you whent to school you would have just got a little talk and sent back to class well we get suspended for a week for that.

Also where is the logic in suspending people for skipping school?

 

[aesop081]

The problem with Zero tolerance policies is that just send people home all the time for the smallest idiotic things. It's badly put together and school these days is more like prison then a school. Things that when you whent to school you would have just got a little talk and sent back to class well we get suspended for a week for that.

Also where is the logic in suspending people for skipping school?

maybe one day when you are all grown up you will realize why things are the way that they are.  yes in my school days we just got a little talk.  Now think of all your schoolmates and ask yourself how many of them would listen to that "little talk" and actualy change their behaviour.  Schools have had to take drastic measures because the methods of yore are lost on kids these days.

Topic ?

 

[ChopperHead]

they havent really taken drstic measures. all they do is send kids home for a week or 2 to sit around and do nothing or go out and cause trouble. since when does a school need 42 security cameras? and then have the balls to compain about not having enough money to buy this and that for students. At my sisters school the students dont have any labtops to do inclass work with because the teachers have all taken them for their personal use? this is what Im saying schools are more focused on making out side interest groups and other people happy then actually trying to teach kids.

 

[Kat Stevens]

I went to my kids school, and laid out what I would prefer to see.  A day off for negative behavior is exactly that.  I work, and there is no other parent here to supervise them.  So, here's what they do with my kids:  They are handed over to the custodial staff at the school for their suspension time, and I ensured that it was understood by all that they were to perform every nasty, grungy job available, even to save them up if possible.... It worked great.

 

[Scott]

since when does a school need 42 security cameras?since when does a school need 42 security cameras?

You can't be serious. Since some kids decided to arm themselves and bring arms to school!!!

At my sisters school the students dont have any labtops to do inclass work with because the teachers have all taken them for their personal use?

If your sister is in high school then what does she need a bloody laptop computer for?


Bah, I see little sense trying to reason with you, just get this back towards topic please?

 

[ChopperHead]

ok you cant be serious scott you actually think that kids dont use labtops in school? give me a break I used them all the time and are important tool. the main point to that comment was that they are for the students and the teachers took them.

no school needs 42 secruity cameras. when our shops are all closed down or barley working, after school programs now cost the students hundreds of dollars just to participate, the schools are in need of major repairs, many schools dont have enough books to go around to everyone, classes filled to the brink, and there are empty classes down the hall, principles have the latest greatest $3000 computers, oh ya art programs are being shut down now as well. and why is this? suposedly because there isnt enough money well I say thats Bull. Schools just spend it on crap they dont need and it gets all passed around and by the time it gets to the students there aint much left.

if people want to continue to talk about this topic im fine with continuing but if you think this is off topic (which I dont think it is as they sort of go hand in hand) then fine back on topic

 

[Scott]

Chopperhead, I am always very serious when I ask a question. It's not that long ago that I was in school and we had zero need for laptops. Do you have a need for them? If not then the discussion is over. I wasn't debating wether or not you use them but what the need was.

I don't think I need to explain the difference between luxury and need. You spend extra money on luxuries and remove them if they are needed elsewhere or if someoen can use them better or has more need for them. Kind of sounds like the teachers in this case.

Schools need cameras today, that's a fact of life in these days and you whining about it will do nothing to change that. Everything you mention is true, I won't argue that, it's true accross the country, because tax dollars are spread thinner and demands for things like cameras is higher. Blame the kids who bring guns to school, they're responsible for this. Your principals need things like computers to get by, they are managers of sorts and find computers a valuable tool. You are there to learn, to an extent, how to do things without relying on computers, they need them to teach you to do that. Wierd but true. When I was in school we had Computer Lab, that was when we arsed around with computers.

 

[westernarmymember]

There are very few jobs in today's society that do not require some level of computer competency. I can't see the logic in asking if there is a "legitimate need" for them in schools. My wife is a university graduate and in her chosen line of work, every interview she goes to, the interviewer asks if she is capable on a computer. Computers were not available when she was in school, even though they should have been. This is the computer age and the demand for computer knowledge will only continue to grow. (off topic, but I just figured I'd throw that into the mix)

Back to watching the discussion.

 

[Scott]

Points to which I completely agree. However, there is a time and place for that. The impression I was getting was that all kids are armed with laptops to do their schoolwork and the poster was upset because they were taken away in a cash crunch. Computer literacy is paramount in getting the jobs of the future and even the ones now, I wasn't raising issue with having the machines in schools, just at the need for them to be posessed by the kids.

I know pleanty of people, as a matter of fact I live under the same roof with one, who have made it through four years of University (She's a BscN) without having full time access to a computer. If the students at that level can manage it then I am sure most of the high school kids will survive.

My point, again, was merely this: If it is classified as a luxury, which IMHO laptops are, then they can do without. Security cameras, again IMO, rank a bit higher on the importance scale. If a kid gets into your school with a gun you ain't gonna need yer shiny new Dell!

I think we've heard both sides fairly and cleared up any misunderstanding, now methinks it's time to steer this back on topic.

 

[Thompson_JM]

To answer the initial question,

Yes. Political Correctness Has gone too far.

its Christmas Dammit! not festive holiday! 

I think the problem is that we have in some cases gone from recognizing, and making some accommodations for special interest groups, to flat out catering to their needs. and neglecting ours....

your thoughts? (without turning this into a hate-fest...)

 

[ChopperHead]

yes i agree, and in fact when you do this it really makes for more racism and whatever cause when you think about it if you cater to a certain race or religion or whatever and give them special privilages arnt you just recognising that they are diffrent from other people and further segregating them by singling them out?

 

[George Wallace]

To answer the initial question,

Yes. Political Correctness Has gone too far.

its Christmas Dammit! not festive holiday! 

I think the problem is that we have in some cases gone from recognizing, and making some accommodations for special interest groups, to flat out catering to their needs. and neglecting ours....

your thoughts? (without turning this into a hate-fest...)

You do have a point; to a certain extent.  We do have a problem if we are to treat these different holidays by "excluding" others.  There is a way to turn it all around though and that is to find ways to "include" others. 

Take the example of "Mens' Christmas Dinner" held at a Unit in early December before sending everyone off on "Christmas Leave".  There are ways to be inclusive in these celebrations and still be respectful of others beliefs and cultures.  I am not saying to deny Christian values for anyone else, but to be creative and include others' values in the celebrations.  Does the celebration have to be held at a certain time?  No, other than it is held before everyone goes on Leave.  Does it have to be a certain type of food?  Not really, but Turkey has been the traditional food and is usually not an offensive meat to any religion.  Does the Grace and/or Prayer have to be only a Christian one?  No, there can also be a 'Neutral Blessing' or a series of Grace/Prayers from the different Religions.  Do many of the symbols or Christmas really have any Religious significance?  Christmas Trees are from long dead Pagan rituals.  Jingle Bells has no religious connotations.  Christmas Holly and Mistletoe are not really 'religious symbols'.  Nor are 'snowmen', or Santa Claus.  If Christian Religious Symbols are present, can not other Religions' Symbols also be present?  Can not the Star of David, the Crescent, and other symbols just as easily be displayed?  There really is no need to take away or hid ones beliefs for another, just be tolerant and understanding of their beliefs too.  "Include" vis "Exclude".

Actually it is really more 'Christian' to be 'inclusive' at this time of year than to be 'exclusive'.