Police pulling guns on Reservists in BC

[medaid]

Secondly, just a hypothetical question, what kind of cop are you that when responding to a complaint or concern that there are armed men in the streets and coming upon said complaint or concern (as a person that represents the government , law, order and discipline no less) you do NOT IMMEDIATELY recognize these 'suspects' as CF members? Not only do they not realize or make the physical/chemical connection inside their brains that these are Canadian Soldiers and very most likely do not mean any harm whatsoever to the public but they DRAW THEIR WEAPONS ON THEM?

Holy ROE violation  ;D

You don't know what you're talking about here. i suggest you stay within your lane with regards to LEO UoF.

 

[jmackenzie_15]

How polite; take a joke dude.

Coming from the guy that doesn't understand what OPSEC is. You stay in YOUR lane.

 

[medaid]

How polite; take a joke dude.

Coming from the guy that doesn't understand what OPSEC is. You stay in YOUR lane.

Uh huh. That thread had no bearing what so ever in this one. Your hypothetical question was not a joke, at least from how I read it. You are questioning the competence of members in a realm that you have no experience with. This isn't over seas. Just because someone is wearing a uniform does not mean anything. You have any idea how easy it is to acquire uniform parts to misrepresent oneself. You want an example? Look at Airsofters, some of them are better equipped equipment wise then most of us in the CF.

When a member is dispatched to a high risk situation, and unknown other then "group of armed men" is given over dispatch they react as they would to find a group of armed men. The sidearm was NOT aimed, but was drawn which shows the member was trying to ascertain the situation and attempting to identify the situation and establish presence. Until such time as the member is able to be certain that the "group of armed men" are indeed members of the CF, he or she had no way of knowing that they are who they claim to be or the threat is non-existent.

Many of my partners have been at the low ready in unknown high risk situations.

Did you always get the perfect information when you rolled on to a scene overseas?

I do know what I am talking about. I say again, stay in your lane.

 

[jmackenzie_15]

Uh huh. That thread had no bearing what so ever in this one. Your hypothetical question was not a joke, at least from how I read it. You are questioning the competence of members in a realm that you have no experience with. This isn't over seas. Just because someone is wearing a uniform does not mean anything. You have any idea how easy it is to acquire uniform parts to misrepresent oneself. You want an example? Look at Airsofters, some of them are better equipped equipment wise then most of us in the CF.

When a member is dispatched to a high risk situation, and unknown other then "group of armed men" is given over dispatch they react as they would to find a group of armed men. The sidearm was NOT aimed, but was drawn which shows the member was trying to ascertain the situation and attempting to identify the situation and establish presence. Until such time as the member is able to be certain that the "group of armed men" are indeed members of the CF, he or she had no way of knowing that they are who they claim to be or the threat is non-existent.

Many of my partners have been at the low ready in unknown high risk situations.

Did you always get the perfect information when you rolled on to a scene overseas?

I do know what I am talking about. I say again, stay in your lane.

I'm not going to dignify your childish antics in the public and further degenerate the thread. PMs inbound

 

[medaid]

I'm not going to dignify your childish antics in the public and further degenerate the thread. PMs inbound

Excuse me?! You were the one that brought another thread into your reply which had no bearing here. You asked a hypothetical question to which I found slightly insulting to the member that attended the scene, I then offered a possible explanation to how this could have transpired. Here you are saying that my explanation in my experiences first hand along side LEOs are childish antics? Please...

 

[Fishbone Jones]

OK kiddies, get off this means and beat each other up in PM's.

Nuff said. No more toleration.

Milnet.Ca Staff

 

[Danjanou]

Having been ceremonially granted Freedom of the City doesn't negate requirements to follow regulations and expectations to inform local authorities; it's a ceremonial privilege, not a carte blanche to do as you wish within the city limits.

Obviously Michale has never seen what Seaforths are like after the parade in Gastown, or at least in the bad old days. Eh Colin

The lowdown: Weapons drawn but not pointed. Proper notification was given prior to march. Watch commander was not informed during handover to evening shift. Confusion reigns, but it's a police screwup. There is now a more formal procedure to be followed including phoning local police prior to stepping off to confirm with watch commander.

That said, whatever dumbass actually drew is (I hope) still filling out paperwork in triplicate.

Like I said earlier sometimes dumbshit happens even among professionals. Deal with it, learn and move on.

Ok I think we’re done here and the flame wars have moved to PMs so

“Nothing to see folks move along.”

 

[fraserdw]

Was this done by local cops or the Federal Bureacrats in Red Serge!

 

[OldSolduer]

You fellows in BC need to recruit police officers. We have in Winnipeg and its a very handy way of keeping the local police and RCMP informed...its nice when the RSM is a police officer.

 

[fraserdw]

Never mind, I just went to the city web site.........Federal Bureacrats in red serge.  I can believe it now!  I served as a Reservist in a city with RCMP and a town with local cops.  The latter is preferred as they are often a part of our mess and our units and working with them is great.  The other crowd seems to feel that the CF is just something that competes with them for budget money.

 

[JBP]

Something liked this happened at my old reserve unit in St. Catharines, ON, Lincoln and Welland regiment...

We tried everything we possibly could to notify citizens and the police but still it turned ugly... I was one of the guys who spent 3 days on the Queen's dime handing out flyers all throughout downtown to houses and businesses and talking to all of them advising them of our "high level training operation" in the area the next week, along with a few other guys. Add that to the fact that many of the higher-ups in the unit ARE cops on the local force and you would think that everyone would know. We even posted it in the local newspaper...

Then that night came, we were downtown doing our thing and some civilians absolutely lost their minds and ran into buildings and called the police all hysterical which in turn caused the cops to come down where we were with weapons on 1 of our platoons...  :  There was a big write up about it in the newspaper the next day and we were from that point forward banned from active training in the downtown core and had to have approval to even leave our property with weapons of any kind... We once HAD the grace of the city and then we were put on a leash, even after all of that...

I would have always thought the Canadian Flag on our shoulders would help with people wondering who we were?

 

[garb811]

.........Federal Bureacrats in red serge

Congrats, you've managed to insult a few respected members of this site, not the least of which is one who is not only one of the "Federal Bureacrats in red serge" but who was also one of the driving forces behind the changes in Regulations which now allows those "Bureacrats" to serve in the Primary Reserve, which he is now doing.

Incidents of this type have happened, do happen and will happen again and they have been discussed on this board before (see the thread Military 'Might' not 'Right' for Schoolyard, father says for a few instances related last year).  The best defence against them is to do what's already been suggested; contact, liaison and education of the local police service.  One other avenue to do this is via your MP Det.  All MP Dets maintain liaison with their civilian counterparts (even in locations with a reserve unit only) and if you run into "issues" doing the notification yourself, they should be more than happy to assist you in ensuring your local police are aware of the legailty of what you are planning to do.

The truth of the matter is, after thinking about it for awhile and having lived in a location where it was the norm, I'm glad that I live in a country where armed troops are enough of an oddity that at least some of the citizenry are concerned enough about the sight of unknown (to them) armed persons on the street that they call the police. 

 

[Scoobs]

garb811,

I agree that we should not be insulting anyone.  That is unnecessary.

However, if the police were properly informed by the local unit and the police failed to brief the incoming shift, then it is a police problem.  I think that an apology to the local unit is not out of the question.  It may have already happened for all that we know.

Having armed troops in public should not illicit such a ridiculous response by Canadian citizens.  During the Ceremonial Guard one year at Carleton U, we were no longer allowed to carry our weapons at the ready, but had to hold them against our shoulders because the citizens were afraid.  One time in my uniform in Toronto, while in a government vehicle with "CANADA" plates at a gas station, I was asked by a citizen, what do you do?  I was so surprised it took me 30 secs to actually recognize that this citizen didn't actually know what I did and what I represented. 

 

[noneck]

I spoke with the Det Trg NCO a little less than 2 hours ago....he has heard nothing about this, nor had it been mentioned in the morning briefing. In his estimation someone is making a mountain out of a molehill. As for all the comments concerning "drawing" on military members stay in your lane unless familiar with our ROE's and IMIM.

This one takes the cake from fraserdw I take personal offence to his uninformed comments:

"Never mind, I just went to the city web site.........Federal Bureacrats in red serge.  I can believe it now!  I served as a Reservist in a city with RCMP and a town with local cops.  The latter is preferred as they are often a part of our mess and our units and working with them is great.  The other crowd seems to feel that the CF is just something that competes with them for budget money."

These Federal Bureaucrats in red serge are good enough to stand shoulder to shoulder in Afghanistan with CF Troops. This federal bureaucrat wears both Red Serge and CADPAT, out here cops are cops!

Noneck
P.S. Here's some pics of those "federal bureaucrats in red serge" in Afghanistan
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=130584

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Alright everyone, the point's been made. Let it drop....now.

Milnet.ca Staff

 

[slowmode]

I'm sure the police were doing what they thought was right..its not like they intentionally did that. Its not that big of a deal, it happend, its over, its done with. Why not just move on?

 

[Michael OLeary]

Locked.

Milnet.ca Staff