PM's New Bde of Peacekeepers (5,000 new soldiers), could it be a SOC Light Force?

[Cdn Blackshirt]

When they say "accepted in government" they must be referring to the Senate members.

Every Liberal Cabinet member I've seen is of the Lloyd Axworthy ilk where "we don't need to have a military to be a positive influence."   I watched him interviewed a couple of weeks ago on TV and paraphrasing to the best of my ability he said "Look at the example of the Landmines Treaty.   We've already saved 20,000 lives since it was signed.   That is an example of what Canada can do with moral leadership.".

That's when I got up, went to the washroom and threw up....



Matthew.    :

 

[Long in the tooth]

DND could create a Virtual Peacekeeping Brigade by simply adding another box under the 1 Cdn Div org chart in Kingston.  This would be right beside the DART and above the fourth rifle company in the infantry battalions.

 

[a_majoor]

The wierd thing is the "virtual" units seem to have "real" headquarters....

 

[jmacleod]

Canada does not need "Peacekeepers" - Canada needs soldiers, members of the Canadian Army
who, including training in the various skills expected and anticipated in a modern combat focused
military force, could undertake the role of peace enforcement, and securing the subsequent
"peace". I think it was MGEN Lewis MacKenzie who said essentially the same thing at a Board
of Trade meeting in Toronto several years ago. I was impressed by former Defence Minister
David Pratt MP, who when requested in writing to support the revival of the CAR, replied in
significant detail, of future plans for parachute capability (essentially what currently exists) and
no forseeable plan to revive the famous Regiment, (which should never have been disbanded;
another story) - a candid and unusual reply from a Federal cabinet minister. but like many members
of Parliament, even at cabinet level, not in the inner circle. MacLeod

 

[2FERSapper]

well this just seems like yet another political game. About 4 or 5 yrs ago i heard politicans speak of how their parties if elected would put money back into your forces buying new equipment bla bla bla. This game is well rehersed in Canada. I agree with the others who said we should concentrate on getting the brigades we have now up to their proper strenghts. Once we actully have the #'s were supposed to have then start worrying about this ne brigade. And if they do make it it will be intresting were it would be placed. which area would have to give uo resources, and tours b/c there are 2 reg force brigades in the area. Way to many problems and it really does look like the same old hollow promise

 

[043]

We don't need more unit's lets man the units we have now to the strengh they should be at. My unit has 2 FD Sqn's with maybe a full 36 pers troop in each sqn. The support sqn has maybe half a troops worth of troops in it. We can not support any real operation with the numbers we have now. We have troops going on tours 2 or 3 times to the same place. It is like a veh with a low tire pressure you fill it up to the right pressure it will run smoothly. And yes we should have never disbanded the Airborne Regiment.

My troop in 24 Fd Sqn has 43 pers in it. 

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

How about we get back on to the topic.

 

[Zipper]

If that is what that allocation of money is truly for, then it is either a farce, or yet another bit of smoke blown up our collective asses.

I'd be surprised if that money makes it past ND HQ and their latest "committee" to study how to fix the Ill's of the forces. This of course will require the hiring of more staff and another General or 2.

Thus the idea of it being self-contained is rather non-productive. If they did approach it as such, then it would be full of police officers and aid workers.

 

[McG]

It sounds like the US would also like to see a Tier 2 light Bde:

U.S. wants Canada to create strike force
ROBERT FIFE and ANNE DAWSON
CanWest News Service
OTTAWA
Printed in the Edmonton Journal, 04 Feb 05

Canada can â Å“punch above its weightâ ? on the global stage, but it must pour money into intelligence gathering, create a rapid-reaction strike force and buy heavy-lift aircraft to transport elite soldiers to world trouble spots, says U.S. Ambassador Paul Cellucci.   With a boost in defence spending expected in the federal budget, Cellucci said Canada's 55,000-member military needs to be reshaped to battle terrorist threats, confront ethic cleansing and help out in national disasters.

Washington would like Canada to beef up its elite JTF2 special forces and establish a Canadian strike force that could deploy anywhere in the world on short notice.   â Å“A Level 2 special forces would give Canada the ability to have troops that could be quickly deployed to troubled spots whether it is Haiti or whether it is the tsunami where people needed help right away,â ? Cellucci said in a wide ranging exclusive interview with Can-West News Service.

Cellucci did not say how many soldiers the U.S. would like to see in a strike force, but experts have said Canada should be able to commit a self-contained brigade-size unit of about 4,000 soldiers to any rapid-reaction force. In fact, the Liberal government has committed to recruiting an additional 5,000 full-time troops and the Defence Department is in the process of doubling the size of the Joint Task Force 2 ranks to an estimated 600 troops from 300 counter-terrorism commandos.

...

Cellucd also had high praise for Canadian troops in Afghanistan.

...

On the notion of "self-contained" brigades, didn't we have those before the Fd Ambs were cut to a new CoC and prior to the decision to merge the Svc Bns with the GS Bns under area command?

 

[Zipper]

What dear Mr. cellucci says is fine. And Yes, we did have these capabilities at one time before they were chopped.

However I would prefer that we did what was best for us, and not what those to the south of us would like. It sounds to much like dictation for their intersts as opposed to ours.

As well, I still question how we're going to double the size of our JTF (Did I say how much I hate that name?) when we have such a small pool of highly trained personal to draw upon to take us to this next level.

Also, the purposes of these 5000 more personal are going to be in question with the coming retirements of many of our existing soldiers. Do we try to make a "self contained force" and ignore the needs of the rest of the military? Or do we use these 5000 to fill in the spots that are so lacking already?

Who can tell.

 

[McG]

I believe growth is in our own interest, and I think we could benefit from a light brigade.

Also, the purposes of these 5000 more personal are going to be in question with the coming retirements of many of our existing soldiers. Do we try to make a "self contained force" and ignore the needs of the rest of the military? Or do we use these 5000 to fill in the spots that are so lacking already?

You seem mixed-up on this point.   We are not recruiting 5,000 new individuals.   The army's ceiling of full time soldiers will be increased by 5,000 (in the end we may go through 8,000 recruits to meet this number).   We will recruit to replace retiring soldiers concurrently to recruiting to fill 5,000 new positions.

 

[Zipper]

Ah...

Then I am wrong. Wouldn't be the first time.

Now the question is...        ...How do we recruit those extra numbers when we cannot even recruit up to our current strength at present? Incentives? Maybe some TV shows that highlight the military rather then tear it apart? Maybe some new equipment to excite and instill confidence? Or how about some decent leadership?

Ah the list could go on and on.

 

[McG]

Now the question is... ...How do we recruit those extra numbers when we cannot even recruit up to our current strength at present?

Good question.  I've picked it up in a new thread.

 

[bossi]

I am not sure why the talk of a 5000 pers. peackeeping Brigade?   Why not have a brigade of true warfighters (with equipment) that can do multiple missions?  

Shhhh ... Quiet!
(... or you'll ruin our deception plan ... "Oh, sorry, PM - it must have been that bad connection we had on the cell phone ... I could have sworn you said 'peace-making' brigade ... Oh, well ... too late now ... so, how do you like our new Joint Mobility Brigade ... cool choppers and landing craft, eh ... ?")

 

[Todd614]

I have heard some rumours about Gen Hillier's vision of the 5,000 new soldiers. I heard that he wants to start moving on creating a new brigade in Gagetown right away. Could anyone do some rumour busting for me, or direct me to the applicable links?

 

[Zipper]

I doubt we will know until after the budget and the review.

However if he does make a "new" force with the 5000, he'll be in a world of hurt considering the rest of the forces are so under strength. Those 5000 (over time) would be better used filling in the gaps of retirements and bringing the units back up to something close to operational strength.

 

[Kirkhill]

As I have suggested before - there is a "cake and eat it" solution here.

1,2 VP + LdSH(RC) = 1 CBG
1,2 RCR + RCD = 2 CBG
1,2R22eR + 12RBC = 5 GBC

3 RCR + 3 VP + 3 R22eR + 1 Sqn RCD = 4 CLtBG
CFJOG+CFCSG+4ESR+4RCA for CC and Support.

Same number of units, raised to effective strength. Paul gets his fourth brigade.

 

[Zipper]

Oh, if it were only true.

Lets wait and see if the penny pinchers see it the same way.

 

[TCBF]

Okay, there will be no new Bde, and that is old news (last fall).
There is no room to put a Bde with 1,2, or 5 Bde, we lost the bases for 4 Bde when we pulled out of Lahr/Baden in 1993, and we lost the base for 3 Bde when it was disbanded in the late 60s, CAS/CTC took over Gagetown.

The 5000 will go to fill in the holes in our present org.  We don't need new units.  We need new soldiers to fill them up. 

Or do you want to spend half a billion dollars or more building infrastructure in Gagetown and hiring another huge chunk of office workers?

Tom

 

[Zipper]

So we have thus 2 simple Bde's to look forward too? I'd be surprised if we got one up to strength.

Another reason why I think we should down grade our CDS to M. Gen level and all the rest. Since we cannot even field a Division on paper, and by the looks of it we'll be down to fielding battle groups only, which means we only need someone to command the Bde.

Sigh.

I'm be watching the budget tomorrow with a lot of interest.