Peaceniks Try Direct Mail on Vandoos Destined for AFG

[midget-boyd91]

*cough cough draft the S.O.Bs cough cough*

 

[Mike Baker]

:  This is their job, an they want to do it, and I am sure that they are proud of what they do   

 

[Kiwi99]

If these are going to home addresses, how did they get that info?  Someone on the inside maybe. 

 

[Aerobicrunner]

There is a poll with the article on the Canoe network.  Link is here:

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/War_Terror/2007/06/11/4251990.html

 

[vonGarvin]

Even though that poll is actually asking Joe Q Public to give a legal ruling without any legal training....


Anyway, were I a member of a unit that received such a letter, I would personally view it as an offensive action, Information Operations, Psyops, whatever, and would respond in kind.

 

[Dirt Digger]

The letter urges soldiers not to participate and offers support for those who refuse the mission.

What support can these fools provide, beyond a bag of granola and a bus ticket to Salt Spring Island?  ;D

I'm sure that a few thousand copies of a form letter will keep the boilers stoked in the central heating plant.

 

[Zell_Dietrich]

If these are going to home addresses, how did they get that info?  Someone on the inside maybe. 

I just read this on here.  How did they get those addresses? (It does sound like it was sent to home addresses)  I don't think they're doing a blanket mailing, I think they know exactly where they're sending to.  (If I misread it,  let me know)  Not to make more of a deal about it than I should, but, am I alone in feeling uncomfortable with a group of people who have collected a list of the home addresses of soldiers (and families) that are being sent off to war?  If I were a terrorist,  I know exactly how valuable that list could be to me.  If there is such a list it is inexcusable.

This action compromises several rather big laws,  but the heart of the act was to violate this law.

http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/showdoc/cs/C-46/bo-ga:l_II-gb:s_49//en#anchorbo-ga:l_II-gb:s_49
Inciting to mutiny

53. Every one who
(a) attempts, for a traitorous or mutinous purpose, to seduce a member of the Canadian Forces from his duty and allegiance to Her Majesty, or
(b) attempts to incite or to induce a member of the Canadian Forces to commit a traitorous or mutinous act,
is guilty of an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding fourteen years

I have allot to say on this.... allot I want to write ... but I think the smart thing would be to step away from the keyboard, cool down and figure out why I'm as angry as I am. (I'm thinking it is the violating the safety of the soldiers)  I wonder what would happen if the police were called and formal complaints were filed.  I curious if there is grounds for a civil suit.... (I'm thinking no but still)

 

[Hawk]

My first thought in reading this was a poem my Mom had from World War II "40,000 Zomies" about Quebec decention to the draft. I have the copy, but I won't quote it here. Its only a little relevant, but just as disgusting.

The Van Doos have a long and proud history. I can't see these (I've typed in several things, ranging from rude to crude - supply your own) meeting with any degree of success.

I've been out of the Military loop for quite awhile - how would these people be dealt with in the modern Army?

While I was typing this there was another post by Zell_Dietrich. We treat these people as nuts and dismiss them. Now they have a name and address list. If they can get it, as you say ZD, anyon else can get it too. Its about time someone put a stop to it - like having them tried under this Inciting to mutiny law. No more Mr Niceguy, I say!


Hawk

 

[medaid]

That is indeed kind of worrying that these people can get the addresses of deploying soldiers and families. It will be interesting to see how the government will respond to this one.

 

[Zell_Dietrich]

Yes yes yes, I had a little fit of sideways anger.  (bad run in with a NDPer recently that I guess I didn't fully work though it.)  I want to dismiss this latest action as juvenile, however it does show they're capable of a level of action I didn't think they had before.  I know the kind of effort goes into making a list like that, (I helped out on a few elections/riding associations membership drives)  I am honestly floored that they got that information.  I want want an investigation as to how they got it, and I want people charged for collecting that list. I believe it is illegal to gather information of this nature - as it does constitute a threat to the security of every family on that list.

Now, imagine how you'd feel as a soldier in Afghanistan,  you are talking to a local chief and his 'aid' looks at you and unflinchingly gives the address of where your children are sleeping.  How well would that go down for you at that moment?  I live downtown Toronto, two blocks away from what is now called Little Kabul (great food btw) - it is foolish to think they can't get someone over here to swing by an address, take a photo and email it over to their friend in Afghanistan.  They're poor,  not stupid.

I'm looking really hard for the laws that prohibit the gathering of intelligence on Canadian forces that would be usefull to enemy forces... for I can't find it.  All of our laws seem to hing on requiring "intent" to do harm. (I'm sure people much more skilled/learned than myself could do much better than what I found)

so nice, they mention it twice
http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/showdoc/cs/C-46/bo-ga:l_II-gb:s_49//en#anchorbo-ga:l_II-gb:s_61
Punishment of seditious offences
62. (1) Every one who wilfully
(a) interferes with, impairs or influences the loyalty or discipline of a member of a force,
(b) publishes, edits, issues, circulates or distributes a writing that advises, counsels or urges insubordination, disloyalty, mutiny or refusal of duty by a member of a force, or
(c) advises, counsels, urges or in any manner causes insubordination, disloyalty, mutiny or refusal of duty by a member of a force,
is guilty of an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding five years.

 

[observor 69]

Even though that poll is actually asking Joe Q Public to give a legal ruling without any legal training....


Anyway, were I a member of a unit that received such a letter, I would personally view it as an offensive action, Information Operations, Psyops, whatever, and would respond in kind.

+1  Nuff said  >

 

[medaid]

so nice, they mention it twice
http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/showdoc/cs/C-46/bo-ga:l_II-gb:s_49//en#anchorbo-ga:l_II-gb:s_61
Punishment of seditious offences
62. (1) Every one who wilfully
(a) interferes with, impairs or influences the loyalty or discipline of a member of a force,
(b) publishes, edits, issues, circulates or distributes a writing that advises, counsels or urges insubordination, disloyalty, mutiny or refusal of duty by a member of a force, or
(c) advises, counsels, urges or in any manner causes insubordination, disloyalty, mutiny or refusal of duty by a member of a force,
is guilty of an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding five years.

There we go, that pretty much sums it up. Time to see some of them get charged...

 

[Bane]

+1 to Zell and MedTech

 

[scas]

I say.. Lets get the names of those four groups, and their membership names, and raid thier offices and homes.. Put them in a state of fear. Whats stopping them from them from giving it to the terrorists.. Actually.. Are any of these groups the ones that went to egypt on that peace tour thing a few weeks/months ago??

 

[Zell_Dietrich]

I'm sorry to keep going and finding laws, rules and other things to throw a stink up about this - but their actions are JUST SO out of line with acceptable behaviour I just keep slamming against how ignorant their actions are.  We have laws.  I respect that this group has strongly held opinions,  I understand their points (not to be confused with agreeing with them), however there are acceptable ways to get one's point across.  Their actions are not acceptable.

http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/n-5/text.html
Security
Offences related to security

75. Every person who

(a) improperly holds communication with or gives intelligence to the enemy,

(b) without authority discloses in any manner whatever any information relating to the numbers, position, materiel, movements, preparations for movements, operations or preparations for operations of any of Her Majesty’s Forces or of any forces cooperating therewith,

(c) without authority discloses in any manner whatever any information relating to a cryptographic system, aid, process, procedure, publication or document of any of Her Majesty’s Forces or of any forces cooperating therewith,

(d) makes known the parole, watchword, password, countersign or identification signal to any person not entitled to receive it,

(e) gives a parole, watchword, password, countersign or identification signal different from that which he received,

(f) without authority alters or interferes with any identification or other signal,

(g) improperly occasions false alarms,

(h) when acting as sentry or lookout, leaves his post before he is regularly relieved or sleeps or is drunk,

(i) forces a safeguard or forces or strikes a sentinel, or

(j) does or omits to do anything with intent to prejudice the security of any of Her Majesty’s Forces or of any forces cooperating therewith,

is guilty of an offence and on conviction, if the person acted traitorously, shall be sentenced to imprisonment for life, and in any other case, is liable to imprisonment for life or to less punishment.

R.S., 1985, c. N-5, s. 75; 1998, c. 35, s. 26.

 

[battleaxe]

Has any one individual in these groups stood up to take a leadership role in this action and offer up his/her home address- so that those who receive letters can respond? Or so that they may be informed (wouldn't hurt for some of the posters here to write them a letter) about the security issues/legal ramifications/danger to soldiers that they may be (seemingly are) oblivious to?

If anybody notices more on this story in the media- about how the public could reach the groups and perhaps return a bit of their correspondence- please follow up and post the info. I wouldn't expect or want home addresses (two wrongs don't make a right and all that)- but organization addresses should be in the public domain already.  If they are OK with sending out unsolicited and unwanted correspondence, they should be able to bite receiving some.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

I certainly hope the letters were written on a soft but absorbent paper, so they can be used by the soldiers for a function appropriate to the contents. 

 

[XMP]

According to  news reports these creeps targeted a small area of Valcartier with a mass mailing. Evidently they didn't have individual members names and addresses. Which doesn't mitigate the probable crime of encitement to mutiny.
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/montreal/story/2007/06/11/qc-protestorsvandoos.html

 

 

[Colin Parkinson]

I can imagine some old lady wondering why she is getting a letter telling her NOT to fight in Afghanistan..... ;D

 

[FascistLibertarian]

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/montreal/story/2007/06/11/qc-protestorsvandoos.html

The letter includes a hotline number and website

The coalition includes groups Québec pour la paix, Block the Empire Montreal and Rassemblement Outaouais contre la guerre.