More Than Half (56%) of Canadians Consider Canada’s Armed Forces to be Old and Antiquated

[CountDC]

I crossed a few rivers deeper than I expected them to be while crew commanding an Iltis. It floated free of the bottom and moved downstream with the current at least a few feet. We also got water in through the drain holes in the floor, so we would not have floated for long…

Part of the swim kit was supposedly rubber plugs that you placed in the drain hole. The wheels were supposed to be able to drive it at a slow speed. Both were just feasible enough that we accepted them as possible and never bothered verifying as we didn't really care at the time.

 

[Blackadder1916]

Part of the swim kit was supposedly rubber plugs that you placed in the drain hole. The wheels were supposed to be able to drive it at a slow speed. Both were just feasible enough that we accepted them as possible and never bothered verifying as we didn't really care at the time.

I don't remember the Iltis as being swimmable, but I do remember the drain hole plugs being used when fording. The Iltis had a few more inches of fording depth over the M151, but it did not have the M151's "fording kit" that (with a lot of preparation) allowed the jeeps to ford (hopefully, with prayer) to 61 inches.

I've used the Iltis self-recovery kit a few times (before they withdrew them from the veh EIS - and even after, didn't turn in our veh's kit). Or, actually, my driver did when we got stuck trying to recce alternate evac routes.

 

[lenaitch]

That last part is surprising to me. I would think that if every police service in North America was only operating Crown Vics, that would be enough to keep the production line going......shows you how much I know

I should have added "which would never happen" to my post. Not only from the impossibility of achieving consensus across such a disparate market, Not every small town has a dealership for every manufacturer. One detachment I was in was assigned only GMs because that was the only dealer within 250km. Large fleets often get favourable warrantee-type consideration.

But it’s most likely at least 80% cars

I don't know hard numbers either, but it is changing. The only manufacturer of a police package passenger car that I am aware of is the Dodge Charger. Everything else is SUV or pick-up.

 

[AmmoTech90]

How many LEO in North America?
Roughly 660k in the US
U.S. law enforcement officers 2021 | Statista

And 70k in Canada

Number of police officers in Canada 2023 | Statista

This statistic shows the total number of police officers in Canada from 2000 to 2023.

www.statista.com

So 730k

At ~.7 vehicles / officer to me that sounds like a crazy amount of vehicles, 511k

But I guess that’s only really a 102k a year if you set a 5 year average (which obviously won’t only be cars).

*I can’t find a good source for LE vehicle types percentages. But it’s most likely at least 80% cars.

Med Hat Police Service and the RCMP Det have no cruisers. All SUV or pickups.

 

[RedFive]

I just said that police services are able to keep their vehicle fleets looking new!

I'll allow our vehicle turn over is quite high. I'll also say I've mostly only seen the fleets of a couple of our larger Detachments here in the Lower Mainland.

I can say with absolute certainty if you get close to them, you'll see the absolute carnage of torn up decals, minor damage too insignificant to bother fixing, and if you have the chance to see inside of one, how poorly your average member treats their vehicle. My Detachment still has Crown Victoria Police Interceptors hanging around, too. (Best police car ever made, you can't change my mind)

That being said, I also work in the largest RCMP Detachment in the country and parking space is at a premium so they end up parked very very close to each other and members trying to get duty bags, long guns, and all the other wondrous sundries we carry on a day to day basis in and out at the start and end of shift is the primary contributor to the s*** state most of the vehicles are in.

Drives me absolutely nuts, but its a losing battle and not the hill I'm willing to die on.

 

[KevinB]

I don't know hard numbers either, but it is changing. The only manufacturer of a police package passenger car that I am aware of is the Dodge Charger. Everything else is SUV or pick-up.

There are still a number of companies that do packages to other cars - but yes I agree that the ratio is generally changing towards SUV or Trucks.

However in agencies that have take home cars, the car numbers are still very high, even in rural areas. I expect that will even start to change as by the time you have a divider in most modern cars, there is no room for ‘customers’ in the back. Even medium sized SUV’s don’t have a lot of room - the Ford Explorer and Dodge Durango are probably the most common ones down here, and now as those are getting replaced, many entities are going to Yukon/Tahoe sized ones.

 

[mariomike]

My Detachment still has Crown Victoria Police Interceptors hanging around, too. (Best police car ever made, you can't change my mind)

Best car. Period.

Good weight distribution, handling, and traction. Idled without over heating. Had a fairly tight turning radius . Roomy trunk with some interesting features inside.

They took a lot of punishment ( curbs, mostly ) .

Crown Victoria laid to rest

It is a sad day for many of North America's Police Departments who rely on the brute force, rapid acceleration, and spaciousness of the Crown Victoria Police Interceptors... An old article nonetheless but still relevant, text in yellow - my additions: Ford to retire Crown Vics; police cars to...

army.ca

 

[lenaitch]

There are still a number of companies that do packages to other cars - but yes I agree that the ratio is generally changing towards SUV or Trucks.

However in agencies that have take home cars, the car numbers are still very high, even in rural areas. I expect that will even start to change as by the time you have a divider in most modern cars, there is no room for ‘customers’ in the back. Even medium sized SUV’s don’t have a lot of room - the Ford Explorer and Dodge Durango are probably the most common ones down here, and now as those are getting replaced, many entities are going to Yukon/Tahoe sized ones.

I keep forgetting that not all agencies in North America buy 'police package' vehicles as offered by the manufacturers (then tested by Michigan SP) like Ontario.

I'm not seeing a movement to the Yukon/Tahoe-Expedition in Ontario for regular patrol vehicles.

'Cages' do impact 'customer' space, but that sounds like a 'them problem'. Even at that, they can also restrict the up front space for large members, particularly if there are two.

My Detachment still has Crown Victoria Police Interceptors hanging around, too.

Wow. It has to be at least two years - and probably longer - since I've seen one on the road here.

 

[RedFive]

As far as the Explorers go all I've seen is Police Interceptor models. Tahoe PPV's seem to be at a premium and so are generally going to highway patrol units in BC, and city Detachments are getting "fleet" Tahoes but not the ones with the uprated brakes etc. All have the cage in the back for prisoner transport.

E Division also has a single Charger, but refused to roll those out here. I've seen a large number of them in Quebec, New Brunswick and Nova Scotia.

But anyways, back to the decrepit state of the CAF's green fleet...

 

[CBH99]

There are still a number of companies that do packages to other cars - but yes I agree that the ratio is generally changing towards SUV or Trucks.

However in agencies that have take home cars, the car numbers are still very high, even in rural areas. I expect that will even start to change as by the time you have a divider in most modern cars, there is no room for ‘customers’ in the back. Even medium sized SUV’s don’t have a lot of room - the Ford Explorer and Dodge Durango are probably the most common ones down here, and now as those are getting replaced, many entities are going to Yukon/Tahoe sized ones.

EPS has gone with an almost all Explorer fleet for marked& traffic vehicles, with the tactical unit using Yukon/Tahoe sized units

A question I've always had when agencies decide to go with the bigger/heavier vehicles like the Yukons is fuel consumption...those beasts consume a lot of gas... That has to have a significant impact on budgets?



We use the Explorer w/ police package, and I have no complaints.

 

[CBH99]

That being said, I also work in the largest RCMP Detachment in the country and parking space is at a premium so they end up parked very very close to each other and members trying to get duty bags, long guns, and all the other wondrous sundries we carry on a day to day basis in and out at the start and end of shift is the primary contributor to the s*** state most of the vehicles are in.

It actually fills me with pride to know that we aren't the only agency that plays a game of bumper cars on an extremely regular basis

(When bringing a client down to be processed, it's almost like guessing how many jelly beans are in a jar...except it's police cars in an underground parking level with 1 primary entry & exit)

 

[KevinB]

EPS has gone with an almost all Explorer fleet for marked& traffic vehicles, with the tactical unit using Yukon/Tahoe sized units

A question I've always had when agencies decide to go with the bigger/heavier vehicles like the Yukons is fuel consumption...those beasts consume a lot of gas... That has to have a significant impact on budgets?

The fuel consumption isn't really that different between an Explorer and a Yukon, my old Durango was less than 5% better on fuel than my current Suburban.
But I suspect the acquisition price tag is also significant larger for the larger vehicles.

Everyone and their dog down here gets a take home car now, so lot space is not generally an issue.

We use the Explorer w/ police package, and I have no complaints.

Well other than it being a Ford

 

[LaserBeamBanana]

Advanced training for personell. Who cares about stupid shooties. Let other countries handle that. Train wolves. Train psychopaths with extreme disicpline. We are the best in the world. We always have been and we always will be.

 

[Gunnar]

Rah rah!

 

[daftandbarmy]

Advanced training for personell. Who cares about stupid shooties. Let other countries handle that. Train wolves. Train psychopaths with extreme disicpline. We are the best in the world. We always have been and we always will be.

Soldiers in many other countries have a higher opinion of us than we do ourselves, sadly.

 

[dimsum]

Soldiers in many other countries have a higher opinion of us than we do ourselves, sadly.

…and conversely, we have a higher opinion of some of our allies than is justified.

Some of that view changes when you’ve been posted with them for a while, and you get to see their military - warts and all.

 

[LaserBeamBanana]

Soldiers in many other countries have a higher opinion of us than we do ourselves, sadly.

Morale is lacking. Why don't we know more about our warrior history?

 

[dimsum]

Morale is lacking. Why don't we know more about our warrior history?

Morale isn’t going to be fixed with some history. Morale would be improved with fixing concrete (sometimes literally, as in buildings) problems.

As an aside, “warrior” isn’t really the right description:

Soldier vs. Warrior - TV Tropes

In a story that involves a Proud Warrior Race or some other version of a fighting culture, you'll eventually have the eternal debate: Is it better to be a soldier or a warrior? A Soldier is a fighter using his skills and training to get a job …

tvtropes.org

 

[OldSolduer]

Some of that view changes when you’ve been posted with them for a while, and you get to see their military - warts and all.

Or actually go on exercise with them. That will change your mind mach schnell

 

[LaserBeamBanana]

Morale isn’t going to be fixed with some history. Morale would be improved with fixing concrete (sometimes literally, as in buildings) problems.

As an aside, “warrior” isn’t really the right description:

Soldier vs. Warrior - TV Tropes

In a story that involves a Proud Warrior Race or some other version of a fighting culture, you'll eventually have the eternal debate: Is it better to be a soldier or a warrior? A Soldier is a fighter using his skills and training to get a job …

tvtropes.org

Warrior is definitely the right description. How's your morale?