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Peaceniks Try Direct Mail on Vandoos Destined for AFG

Not In My Name,

You have yet to answer many other direct questions put to you here.  I'm personally interested in the moral ambiguity of advocating a military withdrawal that would undoubtedly lead to countless civilian deaths in Afghanistan.  Is that what you seriously advocate?

Please pay attention to all the questions put to you - not just the ones you have an "off the rack" answer for.

My apologies if the above reference to stock answers being "off the rack" seems too capitalist.

Also, the few comments about going to Afghanistan yourselves to help out if you feel so strongly, are not dismissive.  There are numerous agencies there doing numerous things to help the Afghans.  Why aren't you involved?
 
Not In My Name said:
Well I am confirming to you right now: I believe soldiers are ensnared in a transe-like conformity, but no more and no less that the general population.

Brains! BRAINS!
 
Blindspot said:
Brains! BRAINS!

I gleefully notice that the notorious anticapitalist/anticonsumerist metaphor, exploited with great succes by George A. Romero in a series of popular films from the 60's on to the 00's, is not lost on everyone.

Props to blindspot for picking up on the living-dead reference. Except, Romero's undead were silent. The "Brains" quote is an idiotic recuperation by dilletante exploitation film directors. Everyone knows the dead don't talk.

Another mainstay of the "living dead" series and various other zombie classics, experts will agree, is the military's role as the real bad guys...

But I digress. (Told you I'm not beyond contradictions!)

NIMN
 
Huh?  Did he just completely over analyze a simple "brains, brains" comment?  Yikes!! Get some sleep, big day on friday!
 
Not In My Name said:
Everyone knows the dead don't talk.

Haha! Incorrect! Dracula was quite eloquent.

My apologies to the mods for hijacking this thread with debate on the articulacy of the undead but how can we trust "Not In My Name" with world political facts if he don't even know this?
 
Bzzliteyr said:
Huh?  Did he just completely over analyze a simple "brains, brains" comment?  Yikes!! Get some sleep, big day on friday!

For those who did not get it: consumerists are like zombies. This is directly related to my earlier infamous "trans-like conformity" comment. See 1978's "Dawn of the dead", which takes place in a shopping mall, for more on this. This is not over-analysis, this has been a widely accepted lecture of the zombie franchise since it's inception.

It also allowed me to plug in the anti-military comment. ;)

But let's leave the zombies alone, shall we.

NIMN

 
Valcartier2007

Are you going to respond the this question I posed on page 19?

My single question to the perpetrators of this sad and pointless mailing is if you claim to "care" about the average Afghan then what alternative course of action do you offer to ending the Taliban's campaign of targetting civilians, keeping in mind that this has been going on for over a decade before NATO and US led forces arrived?  Would you just leave them to fend for themselves against the Taliban?

Personally I've heard a lot of exaggeration of the facts from antiwar types to support their cause.  However, I am still yet to hear their suggestions as to what we should do as an alternative to protect those who need protecting.

Hopefully you are all intelligent people who have a knowledge of the history of Afghanistan.  If this is truly the case then I'm sure you're all aware of the strict and cruel punishments the Taliban would hand out to those who didn't follow their interpretations of Sharia Law.  The public executions, the partial amputations, the throwing of acid in the faces of women who did not wear the Burka, and the systematic targetting of Afghan democrats, royalists, socialists, or any one with a political view other than Islamist views.  Considering the well known fact that the Taliban did this and more during their rise to power in the early 1990s, during their rule from 1996 to 2001 and have continued to use these intimidation tactics against civilians since their ousting.  So if we aren't to fight this kind of tyranny then what should be done instead to change the situation and protect the lives of millions of average Afghans?
 
I am getting confused the more you try to explain "trans-like".  Are you trying to refer to "trance", as a person was hypnotized and put in a trance?  Or are we trying to describe something like "transcendental'?
 
Not In My Name said:
When I say "we are the terrorists", for instance, I mean Western military powers who wage wars on lesser privileged, colonialised peoples.

Well, this line did it for me, and I realise that any time responding to such CRAP is totally worthless.

What we have here is an audience seeker, hoping to get a reaction, and he/she has got it.

I am over this guy/girl.

Signed, just another 'terrorist'

::)


Wes
 
George Wallace said:
I am getting confused the more you try to explain "trans-like".  Are you trying to refer to "trance", as a person was hypnotized and put in a trance?  Or are we trying to describe something like "transcendental'?

That was a typo. I mean "trance-like", of course, as should have been obvious by the context in which I used this term several times before.

You guys are really looking hard to pinch us!

 
Not In My Name said:
You guys are really looking hard to pinch us!

Personnaly, I would say that George Wallace was trying to understand what you wrote...

But if you don't care about that  ::) ...
 
Wolfe117 said:
Valcartier2007

Are you going to respond the this question I posed on page 19?

Personally I've heard a lot of exaggeration of the facts from antiwar types to support their cause.  However, I am still yet to hear their suggestions as to what we should do as an alternative to protect those who need protecting.

Hopefully you are all intelligent people who have a knowledge of the history of Afghanistan.  If this is truly the case then I'm sure you're all aware of the strict and cruel punishments the Taliban would hand out to those who didn't follow their interpretations of Sharia Law.  The public executions, the partial amputations, the throwing of acid in the faces of women who did not wear the Burka, and the systematic targetting of Afghan democrats, royalists, socialists, or any one with a political view other than Islamist views.  Considering the well known fact that the Taliban did this and more during their rise to power in the early 1990s, during their rule from 1996 to 2001 and have continued to use these intimidation tactics against civilians since their ousting.  So if we aren't to fight this kind of tyranny then what should be done instead to change the situation and protect the lives of millions of average Afghans?

Kindly answer the question put to you here.
 
You know, one thing I've always thought funny about people like Not In My Name and Valcartier2007 is that they are essentially scared and ignorant, just like the rest of us.

I agree that the bulk of society is wilfully ignorant and even zombie-like - hell look at voter turnout in Canada or our insatiable desire for "stuff". Those things make me mad/scared too and I try my best to do my part by recycling, eating local foods, consuming less, driving less, supporting local business, getting involved with local politics, voting, joining the Army to help my fellow man, etc. However, what Not In My Name et al. do when they see the same problems is retreat into a world of hubris, rhetoric and moral superiority. That way they can scoff at us "zombies" with our "head in the sand" and say to themselves "I'm not like them, I'm better."

The thing they fail to realise is that they have no dominion over reality and truth and they rarely have realistic answers to real-life problems. They often speak in absolutes and state opinion as fact when the real world abhores absolutes and where perception is often reality. That's why you will never see a coherent alternative from them about how solve Afghanistan (or Darfur or Nazism or poverty). Rhetoric mandates that they must be anti-military and show "solidarity" with the people of Afghanistan when in fact they don't really know what either of those means. They shout "Solidarity" at rallies and march through the streets while the soldiers they relfexively loathe and look down their noses at risk their lives, and occasionally lose their lives, to bring peace and hope to a people that have known neither for a generation. The saddest part is that their ilk will rarely put their money where their mouth is and actually do something to change the world other than mouth slogans like... well, like zombies. But of course, they're not zombies as most have read much about the world and some have travelled and all have formed strong opinions of how they want to see their world look. I would just caution Not In My Name and Valcartier2007 that you pause for a moment before calling any kettles here black. Soldiers are often very well educated, worldly people who have formed strong opinions about how they would like the world to be.

The irony here is that most soldiers are probably truer socialists than these anarchists. The word socialist has a negative connotation to it and most soldiers would object to the description but I ask you to think about it. Being Canadian they may already be strong supporters of many left-leaning policies like universal health care and EI. More to the point, they understand the need for those who are better off to help those in need. They know better than most in this country that there are people who are desperately poor and they are willing to risk their lives to improve their lot. They recognize the need for the collective to come to the aid of the most destitute and oppressed.

That's all I got.

MG

P.S. I'm still waiting for your alternative solution to our problem in Afghanistan.  ;)
 
Mortar guy said:
The irony here is that most soldiers are probably truer socialists than these anarchists. The word socialist has a negative connotation to it and most soldiers would object to the description but I ask you to think about it. Being Canadian they may already be strong supporters of many left-leaning policies like universal health care and EI. More to the point, they understand the need for those who are better off to help those in need. They know better than most in this country that there are people who are desperately poor and they are willing to risk their lives to improve their lot. They recognize the need for the collective to come to the aid of the most destitute and oppressed.

There is a difference between this and Socialism. Understanding and acting to help others in need has been recognized for millennia as the mark of nobility; you can see references to this in "The Iliad". Socialism takes this from an internal trait and converts it into an external imperative; you WILL help those in need, and "WE" (the Government, the people, the proletariat, the factory soviet) will define who needs help and how much.

You can see how extorting from the unwilling and the arbitrary nature of defining the "needy" distorts Socialism and predisposes it to failure. Private charity is limited in size and scope, the donor usually knows the beneficiary, and con men are limited in the number of naive donors they can fleece.
 
Not In My Name said:
Are you saying that soldiers are enlightened beings, emancipated from the conformity model which objectively traverses all classes, gender, ethnicities and age groups in Western Societies?

As a matter of fact the military conformity model does traverse all classes, gender, ethnicities, ages, religions, political philosophies, ideologies and world views.  There isn't a single soldier here who can't say that he/she has worked, served and soldiered with every conceivable fraction of society. 

But our conformity is of purpose not ideology like you and yours.

I've kind of been waiting for the Mods here to send you and V2007 off to school as they are fond of doing when someone shows a penchant for talking out of their ***, but since it doesn't seem to be the way they want to play this I would personally like to encourage you to look around a bit and discover the multifaceted nature of the members here.  Perhaps then you'll at least be able to comment from a point of informed ignorance.
 
In the hope that further consideration will be given to the message (in several cases provided by folks who have walked the ground and spoken with Afghans face to face) of armed force as a conditionally necessary and complementary element to assist development under the Rule of Law, this thread has remained open.  Please keep the discourse civil and the spirit of meaningful discussion/debate in mind.

Army.ca Staff
 
The thing they fail to realise is that they have no dominion over reality and truth and they rarely have realistic answers to real-life problems. They often speak in absolutes and state opinion as fact when the real world abhores absolutes and where perception is often reality. That's why you will never see a coherent alternative from them about how solve Afghanistan (or Darfur or Nazism or poverty). Rhetoric mandates that they must be anti-military and show "solidarity" with the people of Afghanistan when in fact they don't really know what either of those means. They shout "Solidarity" at rallies and march through the streets while the soldiers they relfexively loathe and look down their noses at risk their lives, and occasionally lose their lives, to bring peace and hope to a people that have known neither for a generation. The saddest part is that their ilk will rarely put their money where their mouth is and actually do something to change the world other than mouth slogans like... well, like zombies. But of course, they're not zombies as most have read much about the world and some have travelled and all have formed strong opinions of how they want to see their world look. I would just caution Not In My Name and Valcartier2007 that you pause for a moment before calling any kettles here black. Soldiers are often very well educated, worldly people who have formed strong opinions about how they would like the world to be.

The irony here is that most soldiers are probably truer socialists than these anarchists. The word socialist has a negative connotation to it and most soldiers would object to the description but I ask you to think about it. Being Canadian they may already be strong supporters of many left-leaning policies like universal health care and EI. More to the point, they understand the need for those who are better off to help those in need. They know better than most in this country that there are people who are desperately poor and they are willing to risk their lives to improve their lot. They recognize the need for the collective to come to the aid of the most destitute and oppressed.

MG +1
 
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