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Peaceniks Try Direct Mail on Vandoos Destined for AFG

DaveTee stop being so brainwashed, they really got you buddy! Didn't you know that before 1776 and Adam Smith's the wealth of Nations there was no war or poverty or imperialism or colonialism. Everyone lived together equally and happy regardless of race religion ethnicity etc. Then in 1776 the book got published, that whole American Rev started, and there has been nothing but war and genocide since. ::)
If only we could all become socialists it would solve everything :) socialists never have war or anything bad! In fact it would be slander to say every totalitarian regime was socialist in nature.
 
Your right! I've been so misguided! Clearly kingdoms ruled by the will of one guy were the way to go! I mean obviously the medieval age was called the dark age because of poor lighting, nothing else. And the age of enlightenment was called as such because it lightened the weight of gold. Yup, finally I learned something! Thank you facistlibertarian, for teaching me!  ;)
 
Just for my own info was each letter personally addressed to each individual solider i.e.
Brigadier Admiral Ex Dragoon
123 Armed Forces Lane
Some City, Some Provice
Canada, postal code
 
Ex-Dragoon said:
Just for my own info was each letter personally addressed to each individual solider i.e.
Brigadier Admiral Ex Dragoon
123 Armed Forces Lane
Some City, Some Provice
Canada, postal code

Not as far as I know.  Shotgun method, much like their arguments, they throw out sh*t and hope some sticks. :boring:
 
Ex, they sent the envelopes in a mass mailing to the PMQ areas with "occupant" as the addressee...
 
Not In My Name said:
But we did, and still do, hope that down the road, Canadian soldiers will start questioning Canada's role in Afghanistan, Canada's posture as a great humanitarian country and, eventually, their own involvement in the centuries old colonialist/imperialist imposture that is Canada.

At some point, soldiers are also going to break with this transe-like conformity, and they will start to say: NO MORE! Enough of this crap! Ya Basta!

..and to this I say "Hey you, welcome to the warning system!!"

 
They also sent them into the civillian communities surrounding the base. So not only were soldiers targeted but also civilians.
 
I have been reading this thread for awhile now and posting my own little comments. Anyways having thought this over a bit this is how I feel.  :salute:  :cdn: (id put a little Quebec flag here if there was one)

You have stated that you read COIN manuals. I suspect the reason that you read these are not to learn how to defeat the enemy but so you can find tactics and strategy that you disagree with. I hope besides COIN manuals you also take some time to research the great history of Canada, and of Quebec. I am so proud of Canada and Quebec, and you should be as well! I am aware that French speaking Canada historically and contemporary does not have the same degree of support for the Canadian military during war.

You should be very proud of the great things Canadians from Quebec have done in service of their country, but I suspect you will think they were duped by Imperialists who just wanted to take over the world.

In the Great War about 1,000 Canadians were sent with the 1st Division to France including a French speaking Company. They, along with my Great Grandfather, met their baptism of fire at 2nd Ypres. Whatever you want to say about why they fought show a little respect and pride! The second Canadian contingent had a French speaking regiment (the 22nd Battalion), you may have heard of them, the Van Doos. You should be extremely proud of what this battalion has accomplished (do a little research), and will accomplish (just watch).

I have stood at Dieppe where the Fusiliers Mont-Royal stormed the beach in an attempt to bring liberty and freedom to conquered peoples, over 100 of them died. This seriously hurt Quebec’s support for the War. Think of these men when you march, young men who died fighting against tyranny and oppression. The Royal Rifles of Canada (an English speaking battalion with many native French speakers) were at Hong Kong, they fought for 17 days in December and did our nation proud. You doubtlessly feel as garrison troops they were supporting Britain’s Imperialism and Racism. I am sure the Chinese and other minorities feared the Japanese far more than the British Empire. But the lesser of two evils argument never appeals to you does it? These men signed up to fight Hitler and spent 4 years in a Japanese POW camp under the worst possible conditions. My great uncle was there. I have talked to Hong Kong veterans; they are a diverse group with many varied opinions. They are unanimous in saying they should not have been sent. I have also heard many say that if there was a war on and they could go they would volunteer again, they would go to Hong Kong again, because they are soldiers and soldiers follow orders. Soldiers from Quebec fought bravely in the Battle for Normandy and later in the Battle for North West Europe. All this might not mean anything to you but it means a hell of a lot to me.

Quebec might not have supported Canadian overseas commitments as much as other parts of this country have, and that is alright by me. But the people going to Afghanistan right now are volunteers. Canada has made a commitment to the country and people of Afghanistan, people often lacking the dignity and freedom that we take for granted. The other Canadian regular force battalions have already gone. It is time for the Van Doo’s to do their part, make their contribution. There is no doubt in my mind that they will act in a manner that will make Canada, Quebec, and the people who wore the Van Doo uniform before extremely proud. I happen to value the chapter they are writing in our nation’s history. You should show support for these people, who volunteered out of their own free will to go far from their home to help others, who are willingly risking their lives. And you should show a little respect, as we all want to make this world a better place.
 
Hale said:
Wow, I'm on the other side of the world and I'm insulted. So you think we've all got our heads buried in the sand? Totally ridiculous. Totally. Most of us here have lost friends over there. My count is at 3 so far. And you lecture us on how we're not looking at the bigger picture? How we dint know whats going on? Have you been to Afghanistan? Because your telling a whole lot of Canadian soldiers who've been over there about a country that you've never been too. You think we can learn something from you? Any respect we had has quickly evaporated!

I'm very upset with the tone you've used and the assumptions you've got.

Hi Hale and others who have responded to my rant.

I thought that was clear, but I guess there is no harm in clarifying further, i.e. repeating it once more:

We do not think that soldiers are any more or any less stupid than civilians.

When I say "We", I mean privileged citizens of the Global North, or the Western Hemisphere, or the First World, call it what you will.

Us North Americans are very much so privileged in any way.

When I say "we are the terrorists", for instance, I mean Western military powers who wage wars on lesser privileged, colonialised peoples.

When I talk about heads buried in the sand, or transe-like conformism, this does not apply exclusively to soldiers, as some of you have written (please don't be so offended by a single man's words, it's not worth it...), but to the whole of privileged Western so-called civilisation.

Conveniently, no one has even tried to challenge this assertion - the point and crux of my intervention, really -  that we, of the wealthiest Western nations, are profiting daily from the colonial and imperialistic policies that our governments have imposed on the rest of the world for centuries.

I am also implying that our military adventurism is closely tied to our social-economic systems, namely global capitalism, and our deep-rooted addiction to privilege.

Please, if you can, prove me that I'm wrong. To me this is indisputable fact.

It is obvious that some, if not most, of you and I don't agree on many, many things. I nonetheless have the same right as you to express it.

I find that most replies to my entry so far are disingenuous, at best, and in total bad faith in the worst cases.

I have not implied, for example, that Middle Ages or totalitarian regimes were better than capitalist rule. On the contrary, I strongly believe that humanity is on the path of emancipation from systemic inequity, and that authentic people's solidarity will prevail, I hope sooner than later.

I have not mentioned Adam Smith, and the sarcastic wiseass slants against socialism reveal a lack of understanding of both capitalism and socialism more than anything. I'm sorry, but these posters' remarks do not come across as particularly informed. Observers will decide for themselves.

On the other hand, I'm sorry if I come across as pretentious, but no one has even came close to address the very important issues that I raised.

It's all childish reactions, and/or outrage founded on distortion or miscomprehension of my assertions.

As for the Gentleman who dismisses me for choosing to withold my real name, I would point out that very many users of this forum are also anonymous.
Why do you need my personal information, anyways?

Can't you just address my discourse and my beliefs without resorting to belittling me on secondary issues?

And, why would I give my real name on a forum where I find so much hostility toward myself, my beliefs and life choices? It would be suicidal.

I can tell you this, since you seem to be interested in my personal profile:

I am 33 years old, from an average working class background. I am from rural Quebec and have been living, studying and working in Montreal for the last 15 years. I'm somewhat educated - more than the average, I guess. I have traveled a bit, which has allowed me to both witness first hand the inequity of this world and appreciate my own  privilege. I've tried very hard to understand the root causes of this inequity, and I've come to the conclusion that illegitimate authorities, plutocracies, exploitation, genocidal policies, racism and all forms of discrimination are to blame for the deep imbalance which characterizes our world.

I have been involved in many social justice projects for many years. A quick examination of the People's Global Action Hallmarks http://www.nadir.org/nadir/initiativ/agp/free/pga/hallm.htm,  manifesto http://www.nadir.org/nadir/initiativ/agp/en/pgainfos/manifest.htm and organisational principles http://www.nadir.org/nadir/initiativ/agp/cocha/principles.htm will indicate the general framework of my politics.

I consider myself an anarchist, because I reject the authority of the State and its institutions, of the Capitalist order and of the organized religions. That does not mean that I don't use a computer, to reply to a particularily crass comment, nor that I don't have my own contradictions to deal with.

It just means that I have chosen to reject most of the premisses on which Canadian "business as usual" is based on.

I have chosen a certain path for my own life, as all of you have, and I don't intend to change it any time soon. To imply that all anarchists are childish rebels that eventually go back to the conformity is a facile and misguided generalisation.

I genuinely write this in a spirit of dialogue. If you don't want to dialogue on the issues I and others in my group raise, please don't lend us bad intentions or demonise us. As someone has said before, we can agree to disagree, without having to be nasty to each other like schoolchildren.

I gather that the ones who have responded will not change their minds, other, more discreet users of this forum, might actually take the time to reflect upon the ideas we put forth. That's the whole point. We also take into consideration the genuinely frank and pertinent comments made by the more thoughtful participants.

Again my comrads and I would only like for soldiers to reconsider what the State, the Army, the education system and other classical institutions have always presented them to be the only true reality.

If we can convey to you why we think Canada should not be in Afghanistan, then maybe we can discuss openly strategies to help the Afghan people, and all other oppressed people in this world, by other means than military ones.

Of course, If you actually do like to go in other peoples' countries with guns, tanks, warplanes and a heavy-handed attitude, we have a long way to go...

Resistance is fertile,

yours truly,

Not In My Name








 
Not In My Name said:
..... And, why would I give my real name on a forum where I find so much hostility toward myself, my beliefs and life choices? It would be suicidal. ...............

Maybe he would just like to send you an open letter.  ;)
 
" "If we can convey to you why we think Canada should not be in Afghanistan, then maybe we can discuss openly strategies to help the Afghan people, and all other oppressed people in this world, by other means than military ones." "

When are you going to realize that the Afghan people were oppressed long before the first pair of Canadian boots ever hit the ground?  So, "Tough noogies, have a nice life" is your plan for the Afghans when we leave? Nice, very solidarity-ish of you.
 
You said:

At some point, soldiers are also going to break with this transe-like conformity, and they will start to say: NO MORE! Enough of this crap! Ya Basta!

And you claim that "It's all childish reactions, and/or outrage founded on distortion or miscomprehension of my assertions."

I am a firm believer in precision with language.  I read your words and they are very clear.  I don't think I distorted or failed to comprehend your assertion at all.  I think I understood it quite precisely.

Unless you wish to retract your comment about soldiers and their transe-like conformity?

 
My humble opinion...  I don't thing Canada is over there only for humanitarian reasons.  We will never know, anyway not any time soon.  But, those official, known reason are enough for me and that why I'm going in A-stan this summer.  

I think people like V2007, that object those ideas are so deep in their individualism and there idealism that they are sure to have all the answers.  Historians in Quebec just begin to says it was not the idea of the century to be against the conscription during WW2.  They realised it was not of the King of England but again the Nazis that the war was all about.  It took time, but...  

Anyway...my 2 cents
 
Not in My Name,

Although I completely disagree with much of your argument, and contend that many of your "facts" are merely articles of faith, of kant that has been de-canted, I will admit that, on the whole, you seem to have honestly attempted to engage in civil discourse - and on the whole, that approach has been reciprocated.

The discussion to date has been interesting - I hope that it remains civil.  Having said that, put a mongoose and a cobra in a cage, and even if you provide a checker board, they are probably not going to play checkers...
 
Not in My Name,
First of all, please do not make the assumption that people who have not replied or reacted to your posts may be so inclined to read your "pearls of wisdom" or click on the provided links.  I think perhaps you give yourself and your "Comrades" a bit too much credit! Most of the people here are inclined to working within the democratic framework established by the founders of our Nation, not dabbling in Psuedo-Socalist/Anarchist tripe.  
I have, for the past few days, read this thread and some of the associated threads on this and other sites. I have come to the conclusion that if the world were to follow down the path you and your ilk suggest we would be staring at a global conflict of catastrophic proportions. Isolationist policies have in the past, been proven to allow dictators to thrive, chaos to spread and many innocent people to lose their live because more developed Nations did nothing! The Armchair policy analyst is a great position to be in, you can never be held accountable for decisions, because you are never in the position to make one. Why don't you hop on a plane and go and make a difference somewhere in the underdeveloped countries of the world.  I know quite few who are doing the very same, both in the military and with NGOs, and they can rest assured they can do their work "In My Name".
 
Since i was dubbed crass I'll try to explain my comments further, and I'll keep it formal.

My remark about your computer - mostly saying that capitalism is probably why you even own one, but disregard it.
My remark about the totalitarian / Adam Smith post - Just mostly for a bit of good fun, being silly.

And now, to try, hopefully with some eventual help from more qualified people, to disprove your worldview.

I am also implying that our military adventurism is closely tied to our social-economic systems, namely global capitalism, and our deep-rooted addiction to privilege.

Please, if you can, prove me that I'm wrong. To me this is indisputable fact.

That's an opinion. Not a fact. Addiction to privilege? Have you seen how soldiers live in the trenches? Even regarding civilians, I guess it's wrong to want a high quality of life?
I think Norway was rated the best country to live in (quality of life wise) in something I read a while ago (can't find the source, sorry). So does that make Norway a violent, militarily adventurous country?

Global capitalism...depends what you mean by that. Canada doesn't have a pure capitalist economy. If it did, government would have no intervention or say in anything business does. That's Adam Smith, pure laissez-faire capitalism. We have a mixed socialist and capitalist economy, taking from both. Global capitalism is often trotted out by anti-globalisation protesters at G8 meetings and such, without ever explaining themselves or reasons for loathing globalisation. I researched globalisation for an article and found not one online anti-globalisation source that would explain anything. So just because you say so, doesn't make it true.

Military Adventurism: WOW! That is quite a term. I don't think peacekeeping or going off to world wars. Perhaps the privateers preying on Spanish galleons could be classed as such, but I doubt that any Canadian operations could be.

I have not mentioned Adam Smith, and the sarcastic wiseass slants against socialism reveal a lack of understanding of both capitalism and socialism more than anything. I'm sorry, but these posters' remarks do not come across as particularly informed. Observers will decide for themselves.

you did state previously that:
That of global domination by Western elites, the same elites which have been putting the rest of us down for centuries.
global hamburglar Capitalists make it in their own image.
Not to buy that second car, that third TV, that fifth cell phone, that razor with 14 blades and 3 speed vibrate mode, that GI Joe action figure for little Timmy: all that goddam crap that we fill our empty lives with

Sorry for drawing some conclusions from that. Now as regards your western elites...Look up the history of Canada. We were a colony until 1867. Ah but you were probably referring to the United States. Well they were whooped by us in 1812 and slaughtered each other in 1863. This hardly suggests "Putting the rest of us down for centuries". Ah but maybe it was the Europeans? Well they have been waging war and killing each other since Roman times, and I guess you could claim that one empire has had the upper hand over another at one point, if you so wish.

There are more of your points that I disagree with. However I don't have the skills or inclination to deal with ALL of them. I'll let someone else do so. In the spirit of the "enlightened debate" which you so love to trot out and champion like the moral crusader you are, I would like to know this:
1) What are your major qualms with capitalism?
2) What do you propose in it's place?
3) How do you counter the previous contradiction of "solidarity with humans" and the reality of leaving the Afghan people with their pants down?
4) When you say you are educated more then most, what do you mean? Are you an international relations student? Political Science? Economics?
5) What made you change your opinions to their current iteration?

I hope you find this more civil than my previous post and reply accordingly. Sorry for the length.
 
smitty66 said:
... Why don't you hop on a plane and go and make a difference somewhere in the underdeveloped countries of the world.  I know quite few who are doing the very same, both in the military and with NGOs, and they can rest assured they can do their work "In My Name".

+1
 
Olga Chekhova said:
You said:

At some point, soldiers are also going to break with this transe-like conformity, and they will start to say: NO MORE! Enough of this crap! Ya Basta!

And you claim that "It's all childish reactions, and/or outrage founded on distortion or miscomprehension of my assertions."

I am a firm believer in precision with language.  I read your words and they are very clear.  I don't think I distorted or failed to comprehend your assertion at all.  I think I understood it quite precisely.

Unless you wish to retract your comment about soldiers and their transe-like conformity?

Well I am confirming to you right now: I believe soldiers are ensnared in a transe-like conformity, but no more and no less that the general population. It's not about soldiers in particular, except that we are here on an Army forum, addressing soldiers specifically, specifically about the unjust War they're involved in and their own Rules of engagements.

Of course the comment will be addressed to soldiers. But it applies as well to equally ensnared civilians, which compose the vast majority of society. I include myself and many other radicals, to a certain extent, in this vicious pattern.

And this dynamic, not that soldiers are part of it, is the question. Why do you take it so personal? Why are you being so defensive?

Are you saying that soldiers are enlightened beings, emancipated from the conformity model which objectively traverses all classes, gender, ethnicities and age groups in Western Societies?

No,  I am not retracting.

Most comments made by military personnel on this very thread, on this very forum, confirm that soldiers are a generally conservative bunch, very much in line with the dominant values of said societies: patriotism/nationalism, allegiance to institutions, total faith in the capitalist system, etc.

I am not making this up ! This what you have consciously, but also unconsciously, chosen. We are all the subject of unconscious conditioning processes. It's a fact, whether we like it or not. I challenge you to prove me wrong!

The problem here is that, because I am saying this, you automatically assume that I consider myself to be morally superior than you are. I don't; and I'm not.

I merely believe that we were set on different paths in our lives, which lead us to different places and different conclusions about the world. Again, we're not saying you're monsters or morons. You're just in a different place, and we're trying to bring you a different point of view.

And we're doing it because we feel it is a major, serious issue, and that many lives are in the balance.

Again, don't take one man's opinion so seriously. I'm just a regular guy. We all are.

NIMN

P.-S. I'm self employed and need to discipline myself here, otherwise I would spend way to many hours arguing with you guys.
I'm going to sign off, but I'll be back, and so are we as a collective with Valcartier2007.





 
smitty66 said:
...I have come to the conclusion that if the world were to follow down the path you and your ilk suggest we would be staring at a global conflict of catastrophic proportions. Isolationist policies have in the past, been proven to allow dictators to thrive, chaos to spread and many innocent people to lose their live because more developed Nations did nothing!...

You don't say... So doing things the way Anarchists want would lead to anarchy?  ;)
 
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