Pay: Statements, Backpay, Benefits, Deductions (Taxes, T4), Deployed ect... [MERGED]

[Eye In The Sky]

Everyone's situation is their own;  someone who has 2 children he/she loves and is paying child support for may not be able to swing a pay decrease and would have to consider and plan for this.  Not saying this is the case, only using it as 1 example, as a father who pays $600 a month to support his 7 year old daughter, I know this is something you consider when you figure out the ol monthly budget. 

 

[aesop081]

Everyone's situation is their own;  someone who has 2 children he/she loves and is paying child support for may not be able to swing a pay decrease and would have to consider and plan for this.  Not saying this is the case, only using it as 1 example, as a father who pays $600 a month to support his 7 year old daughter, I know this is something you consider when you figure out the ol monthly budget. 

As your pay changes, so do your child support payment. If someone takes a decrease in pay, they child support payments decrease as well.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

As your pay changes, so do your child support payment. If someone takes a decrease in pay, they child support payments decrease as well.

It sure does...in my case, annually, unless I want to go thru lawyer fees to appear in court to have it adjusted, which defeats the purpose of saving some $$ on monthly payments as it ends up in the lawyers pockets.  Its a helluva system  ;D

 

[MedTechStudent]

I have a big problem with the child support system, from a sort of different point of view.  When my parents separated, and my mom moved in with my step dad, she did not need any money at all to help look after us trust me.  My dad, being the president of a sporting goods company at the time, making lot of money, had to pay a big percentage to my mom.  However that money did not go to me and my sister, it went to my mom and stepdad.  That money paid for them to go on vacation 5 times a year, it paid for a new kitchen.  It was used as a float while my step dad quit his day job and opened his own business.  You have to understand how upsetting and frustrating that is.  I know that child support is a matter of principal, but I would have rather all that money just been given to my sister and I to but in the bank and save to do what we want.  So I guess what I'm getting at with this is that IMHO I think that the amount of child support given should not only depend on the father/ mothers income but also the spouse with child custody.  Its like welfare, easy to cheat and take advantage if you want to.

EDIT: Apologizes for the resulting thread split, the issue just burns at a few of us it would seam.  >

 

[armyvern]

[thread hijack]

8K a year may be a significant drop in pay.  Check out these people who think $40-50 for a Mess Dinner once (or twice) a year might cause undue stress for their finances.  :

[/end thread hijack]

Nice link Moe.

Training Mess Dinners. Eerily the troops are beginning to ask when our next one is -- I'm about to begin looking at menus once again. We have them in my current Unit at least once a year with all the Jr NCMs present. They actually go over quite well and we keep the cost as low as we can for all the Jr NCMs - ensuring that their annual subsidy is applied against their meal cost etc to lower it (and against Senior NCMs/Officers costs' of attendance who have not yet applied their annual subsidy against a Mess Dinner cost). We also have a system here at this Unit whereby once the subsidy's are applied, that we further reduce the costs to the Jr NCMs by divi-ing up the price which sees us Sr NCMs & Officers pay a little more to lower their costs further.

For example, if the costs of the Dinner was to be 35 bucks each after applying everyone's subsidies, then us higher ups would pay 45-50 bucks each to lower the cost for the troops down to about 20 bucks per Jr NCM. No one here seems to complain about paying the higher cost to make theirs lower for them as we consider it to be an essential introduction for them to our military traditions and heritage.

We did have one Jr NCM who was quite insistant that the 20 bucks was still too much and that "you can't force me to pay for something I'm ordered to attend." Even despite the fact that, after subsidies, his cost for the 35 bucks per person cost was only going to be 20 bucks because senior members like myself were paying 50 to keep it cheaper for him.

The answer he got was a "you're right -- I can't order you to pay, but I can order you to attend and so you WILL attend, but you will not eat."

That's exactly what happened too. He was a single MCpl, no kids - lived in the shacks and had just came back from a tour. It was very interesting to watch him push his take on the regulations --- to have it all set out plainly for him to see. Rumour has it that he wandered about the workplace making comments about how there was no way that they'd order him to attend and then NOT feed him. One of his Cpls who later came to work for me remarked how he even had made the comment to his subordinates that they were silly for not sticking up for their "rights" because it was going to cost them 20 bucks for a meal he was going to get for free.

No wonder the troops were all so interested in his reaction when the serving began ... and diddly squat got placed in front of him. So essentially he was correct and proved it ... "the military can't make me pay for food at something they order me to attend". He attended as ordered, and it didn't cost him a dime ...

This was the same Mess Dinner that saw pre-ordered (and paid for) Greco Pizza be delivered to the head table about 1.5 hours in. One for the books.  >

I LOVE Mess Dinners!!

 

[PMedMoe]

The answer he got was a "you're right -- I can't order you to pay, but I can order you to attend and so you WILL attend, but you will not eat."

That's exactly what happened too. He was a single MCpl, no kids - lived in the shacks and had just came back from a tour. It was very interesting to watch him push his take on the regulations --- to have it all set out plainly for him to see. Rumour has it that he wandered about the workplace making comments about how there was no way that they'd order him to attend and then NOT feed him. One of his Cpls who later came to work for me remarked how he even had made the comment to his subordinates that they were silly for not sticking up for their "rights" because it was going to cost them 20 bucks for a meal he was going to get for free.

No wonder the troops were all so interested in his reaction when the serving began ... and diddly squat got placed in front of him. So essentially he was correct and proved it ... "the military can't make me pay for food at something they order me to attend". He attended as ordered, and it didn't cost him a dime ...

I LOVE Mess Dinners!!

:rofl:

Priceless, wish I had been there.  I like Mess Dinners too.  Some of them are a lot of fun.
I didn't know about the subsidies.  Is it like that at all bases?  When I was a no-hook in Greenwood, the prices for the Mess Dinners were broken down by rank as well, the more you made, the more you paid.  It wasn't huge increments either, just made it fairer for the Ptes and Cpls.

 

[BinRat55]

Yeah Vern - could you explain a little about these subsidies? We have 2 or three a year here...

 

[armyvern]

Yeah Vern - could you explain a little about these subsidies? We have 2 or three a year here...

Here (and this is applicable to here),

The annual subsidy for Snr NCOs & WOs is 20.00. We pay our Mess Dinner costs, then take our receipt into the Mess Manager for reimbursement if the Dinner is held off base (ie at the Delta etc). If the Mess Dinner is held on base, then we simply sign the acquittance roll (kept on a table near the seating plan) when we enter the Mess for the Dinner. If the total cost for the Dinner is 75.00, then those Snr NCOs & WOs would see the amount beside their name on the acquittance roll as 55.00 (if it were their first Mess Dinner that year) or as 75.00 (if they had already been to a Mess Dinner that year & thus already received the subsidy). Whatever the amount listed as "our personal" share on the acquittance roll is removed from our pay via deduction.

This provisions of this are included in our Mess Constitution.

The Junior Ranks Mess (The Maritime Club) stipulates in their constitution that their policy is to contribute $15.00 per member once per fiscal year for attendance at a Mess Dinner. They require a nominal roll of those Jr NCMs attending the Mess Dinner and will pay by invoice to NPF the 15.00/Jr NCM attending.

The Officers also have a re-imbursement policy for a Mess Dinner subsidy once/year, but I am unsure as to the exact amount/workings of theirs.


You'd have to check the constitutions of your own applicable Mess' to find out what/if subsisdies are applicable in your own locations.

 

[dent]

I've searched for but not found information directly relating to my question.

My question....someones promoted upon completion of training in, say, August 2007, to the basic incentive level at their new rank.  They are promoted, however, retroactive to May 30th and paid the appropriate back pay to reflect the retroactive promotion.  Their MPRR show the promotion date as May 30th.

May 30, 2008 comes along....no incentive increase.  Now, asking around, roughly half the people say the incentive increase should be paid on the 30th of May in this scenario (since it's the day of promotion and you've been effectively paid at the basic incentive for one year, although a portion was in back pay), and the other half say it's the date you pin the promo on that triggers the incentive.

Now, before I go to the orderly room to get a clearer answer, I thought I'd ask here to either forarm myself (with CBI ref's or messages or whatnot), or to find out that in fact it is the day of pin-on that counts.

Any help is 100% appreciated.

 

[dent]

Further....my OCDT to 2Lt promo and follow on incentive was paid exactly like the above senario (promoted retroactive with first incentive granted 4 months after actual pin-on).

 

[geo]

The promotion date on your paperwork will be the determining factor.
Promoted May 30th.... expect to get your IPC starting in June

Pin on date can be complicated by a number of issues - paperwork date is the date everything hinges upon

 

[dent]

Thanks Geo.....I'm thinking I might take a walk over and ask....the thing with the orderly room I find is it's best to pre-educate so you don't get dismissed by the easy answer.

From the MPRR:

Promotion: Capt. 
Effective date: 30 May 2007
Seniority date: 1 Jan 2007

Then later:  QL & Date: Aug 2007.

I'm thinking this is worth discussing though.  I just wish I had a bit more to go on than "gut feeling"

 

[PO2FinClk]

This is also further complicated by varying enrolment categories for officers of which the list is long. Read CBI 204.211 and see which article applies to you and work from there. There are also times for new officers where the incentive does not kick in automatically for a range of reasons and needs to be "pushed" through manually. But without being able to look at your ETP Instr and any other applicbale to yourself making a cear assesment through this medium cannot be completed with full accuracy, only speculative assesments can be completed here.

From what I see, your incentive should be effective 30 May 08.

Familiarize yourself with the CBI, look at your messages and then see your OR with your information, only they will be able to asnwer you with complete accuracy.

 

[dent]

Thanks for the help PO.

I looked up CBI 204.211 and gave it a read.  Further, I checked out CBI 204.015(5) (deals with incentive pay and timing) which seems to be very applicable, but really doesn't say anything....namely:

"204.015(5) (Promotion on enrolment) An officer or non-commissioned member who is promoted to a higher rank effective the date of the member’s enrolment or the day following enrolment is, for the purpose of pay increment increases, deemed to have been enrolled in the rank to which the member was promoted."

As I read that, it basically says "if you get promoted, you're deemed to be promoted".  Weird.

Anyways, I went to the Orderly room, luckily my old base still has PON, 6 months after posting.  No big deal, hopefully we'll have a smell of an answer soon.  Wish me luck.

 

[TheCheez]

I think the applicable CFAO applies although I'm not entirely sure what it means:
CFAO 204-2 -- INCENTIVE PAY - REGULAR FORCE AND RESERVE FORCE


4.    A member who has met performance standards shall be entitled to incentive pay
          increments on completion of 12 months qualifying service from the date of enrolment,
          re-enrolment, transfer, promotion or last incentive pay increment, as detailed
          in Annex A or Annex B.

6.    Seniority has no bearing on entitlement to incentive pay. Time served in rank,
          qualifying time awarded on commissioning or promotion and, subject to NDHQ
          approval, any qualifying service authorized pursuant to QR&O 204, are the
          determining factors.

7.    Incentive pay may be authorized by the commanding officer (CO).


Further down we see conditions:
8.    Each month NDHQ will identify members eligible for incentive pay
during the month that is three months in the future, eg, in June members
are identified who will be eligible during September.  Members will be
listed in numerical order by SIN.  List will be numbered in a month and
year sequence and will be forwarded to reach the URs approximately ten
weeks prior to the first of the month in which the incentive increase is
due.  In the event no members for a particular Unit Records Support (URS)
are eligible for an award of incentive pay in a particular month, a nil IPC
list will be forwarded.

And since we are not we need to direct the URS to:
b.  Invalid Information.  Where a member is eligible, but is not on
          the list, or is not eligible but is on the list, report the
          particulars to NDHQ/DPS by completing the form at Appendix 2
          (refer also to subparagraph d);

 

[CountDC]

Your incentive goes up each year on the anniversary date of your rank - promo effective 30 May ipc increases 30 May each year until reach max. Senoirity dates and pin on dates have absolutely nothing to do with it. The CFAO says it all if you want something official to take to your pay clerk although I doubt a clerk would need to have it shown to them as they should know this. Normally the system automatically does this but once in a while it does need a good kick.  Good luck in getting it done.

 

[TheCheez]

After checking in with the OR I discovered my incentive level is currently based on my pin on date and not the effective date. They were unsure of the rule and are working on finding an answer.

CountDC if you have a source for that info it would be really helpful. Something that says undeniably that effective date is the correct one.

 

[geo]

cheez
pin on date can often be delayed for a variety of reasons... you should never go by that
There should be a message in your file that says what the effective date of your qualification/promotion.
Ask them to LOOK for it.

 

[dent]

Well, I checked my promo message...it doesn't clear anything up at all.

My promo message says:

Promoted Capt XX Aug 2007, Capt (GSO) 30 May 2007.

There in might be the rub.....see, I'm paid on the pilot pay scale, but was promoted and back paid as Capt. GSO from between 30 May and my pin on date.  Effective the pin-on date, I then jumped to the pilot pay scale.  So...would that reset the incentive level to the pin on date in this case, since I technically entered another pay chart on that date?

Thanks for all the answers.  I'm guessing (and it's just a guess) that Cheez might be in a similar situation.

 

[armyvern]

Well, I checked my promo message...it doesn't clear anything up at all.

My promo message says:

Promoted Capt XX Aug 2007, Capt (GSO) 30 May 2007.

There in might be the rub.....see, I'm paid on the pilot pay scale, but was promoted and back paid as Capt. GSO from between 30 May and my pin on date.  Effective the pin-on date, I then jumped to the pilot pay scale.  So...would that reset the incentive level to the pin on date in this case, since I technically entered another pay chart on that date?

Thanks for all the answers.  I'm guessing (and it's just a guess) that Cheez might be in a similar situation.

I could be wrong, and if I am PO2 Fin Clerk will be along to correct me any time now ...

But when you rolled to the pilot pay scale, your new incentive would begin there; you went to a new pay table - that should be your new effective date for incentive.