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Pay: Statements, Backpay, Benefits, Deductions (Taxes, T4), Deployed ect... [MERGED]

  • Thread starter Thread starter humint
  • Start date Start date
Must be nice to be most people on the board here.  Lot's of self-rightousness at work. 

Benefits do have a value, and so they should be factored in, but if someone's looking to drop $8K a year in salary, unless the prescription drugs and dental he's using now suck up $8K (ish, less taxes) in expenses, it's still a loss game. 

"Honour" & "Serving the country" sounds real good, and they're good, soft, noble, throw away words, but when the car loan needs paying, maybe a wife and child to support, $8K is a lot of cash.  Anyone who says otherwise is being a money snob.  I don't care how much you want to serve, at the end of the day you still need to pay the bills.  Someone used to a higher salary coming in probably has commitments reflecting that higher salary.

Anyone who says money doesn't matter isn't trying to live without enough of it.

UCanuck, I feel for you.  When I joined, I took a $10K drop.  That required a rather drastic change in lifestyle to be able to meet obligations and maybe have a twenty in my wallet at the end of the day.  No amount of free aspirin or free world wide trips (that I never went on) made up for that drop.  Still, it was initial pain for long term gain, the end result seeing me a LOT more happy in my work, and being compensated quite fairly.  When I first asked about pay at the recruiting office, the guy there gave me a pay scale with all the ranks, and in many instances up to 4 differing scales per rank with incentives.  Hard to decipher when you have no idea what you're looking at.

Anyways, it boils down to whether you think you can function at the lower pay rate (if you can't, don't try), and whether you think that the end result is worth it in the end (in my case it really, really was).  Good luck.

Oh....and as an aside....for all the "money isn't as important" posters....I'd love to see the reaction when Cpl. Someone tells them their TD claim is being denied or some other money claw-back.  You'd see just how much money matters then.
 
::)

hauger

Let's see.  Single guy, paying Rent, Electricity, Water, Cable, Telephone, Oil/Gas, Food, etc., now on his way to joining the CF with a $8K drop in pay, but less than 90% of those bills and necessary costs.  Seems to balance out about even in the end in most of our eyes. 

So.........I don't see much in the "Self-rightousness" at work here, except perhaps in your post.....but thanks for the clarifications anyway.
 
Well, I think everyone is shooting blind.  This is a 32 year old adult male, not an 18 year old out of high school.  Who know's what personal debt load he has?  Aside from himself that is. 

 
Still misses the point.  He'd (as a single guy) have to pay R&Q's.  That's not free....or cheap. Rations here are running around $425/month. Quarters maybe $100 - $250 depending on where and what's offered.

It boils down to not crapping on the guy just because he's sweating his budget.  His question pulled unhelpful responses which basically said "if you're worrying about your budget, then your heart isn't in it and you should walk away".  Not a grown up response.  It's self righteous to crap on a guy for worrying about money because you have the luxury of not having to.

Yes, your heart does need to be in it and you need to join for the right reasons, but money is very important, staring down a 21% gross pay cut is scary, and a barrier for otherwise devoted, qualified applicants.  Sure, the deal offered by the CF is great, but again, people need a certain amount of cash in pocket to meet existing obligations.

Funny....money shouldn't matter when joining, but the way I hear it, it sure is a giant consideration come retirement.  Seems I hear something like "I can make uber $$$ working here instead of staying in the CF" quite a lot.
 
Eye In The Sky said:
Well, I think everyone is shooting blind.  This is a 32 year old adult male, not an 18 year old out of high school.  Who know's what personal debt load he has?  Aside from himself that is. 

Agreed for the most part. People joining the CF have to realize however that they are starting at the entry level where, even as a QL3 qualified Pte, you are still very much unqualified in your trade. The pay is on par with what skills and knowledge a Pte has.........you cant start new and have the top salary. If $8k is that big a deal then thats fine, no "self rightousness" on my part, just saying that there are benefits to life in the CF that dont have a dollar value attached and that people on civvie street pay handsome sums to get something similar. Try and find a civvie job that will start you at $40k+ and have 20 days paid vacation, medical, dental, pension, LTA, etc........and hire you when you have no qualifications for the job whatsoever.
 
hauger said:
Still misses the point.  He'd (as a single guy) have to pay R&Q's.  That's not free....or cheap. Rations here are running around $425/month. Quarters maybe $100 - $250 depending on where and what's offered.

Not if he maintains a residence.  There are some benfits, who has to/doesn't have to pay R & Q specific to Recruits in training.  If he is in a lease, he has to either break it, which there is compensation for, and then pay R & Q, or maintain his residence and not pay R & Q.  That is the info the member should be getting from the clerks at the CFRC.
 
Eye In The Sky said:
Not if he maintains a residence.  There are some benfits, who has to/doesn't have to pay R & Q specific to Recruits in training.  If he is in a lease, he has to either break it, which there is compensation for, and then pay R & Q, or maintain his residence and not pay R & Q.  That is the info the member should be getting from the clerks at the CFRC.

True.  Except, he'd then still have to pay for the residence back home.  There's no free lunch, you're on the hook for either R&Q or rent/mortgage back home.  It's a zero-sum game.
 
CDN Aviator said:
Agreed for the most part. People joining the CF have to ralize however that they are starting at the entry level where, even as a QL3 qualified Pte, you are still very much unqualified in your trade. The pay is on par with what skills and knowledge a Pte has.........you cant start new and have the top salary. If $8k is that big a deal then thats fine, no "self rightousness" on my part, just saying that there are benefits to life in the CF that dont have a dollar value attached and that people on civvie street pay handsome sums to get something similar. Try and find a civvie job that will start you at $40k+ and have 20 days paid vacation, medical, dental, pension, LTA, etc........and hire you when you have no qualifications for the job whatsoever.

I agree with what you are saying, and for the record...I never mentioned self righteousness stuff  ;D. I just wanted to point out that the guy is 32 so he likely has more $$ obligations than Johny out of highschool.  

Really, I just thought who knows, maybe he has child support, or something like that is fixed and you can't really not pay.  Its hard for someone new to understand how the IPCs, ranks, whats the difference between a Standard and Spec 1 or 2 MOC, etc etc.  You made some excellent points about the short term and long term benefits, as well as some other people have, but I think Hauger was trying to point out that sometimes 8k is a big deal and can be a deal-breaker.  He just did it in such a way as to draw some spec fire.   ;D
 
hauger said:
True.  Except, he'd then still have to pay for the residence back home.  There's no free lunch, you're on the hook for either R&Q or rent/mortgage back home.  It's a zero-sum game.

Thats what I said, isn't it?  But with the rate at which DCBA policies and the like change, the best thing he can do is get the latest and greatest from the RMS clerks at the CFRC.
 
Thought I should apologize for the "self righteous"...it just makes my blood boil to see an otherwise innocent question get gang-crapped on.  Probably a bit harsh of a statement to make on my part.
 
This thread is fast becoming "Does the CF pay enough money?"  :P

Which as I said I think it does, however, hauger is right, no one really knows whether he needs that 8k but him.  If he does then maybe it will be a bit of a pinch.  Since he has not put an input into this thread since his apology for accidentally offending people.  Its kind of silly to talk about his situation.  Maybe we could side track it to our own personal financial situations?  To whom ever here feels comfortable disclosing that.  Like me for instance, I have no worries because I don't have any student loans, which seams to be the big issue for lots of people looking to join, based on the applicants and CFRC staff that  i've talked to.  I won't have tons of money but thats fine I don't need it, most of the things I need to do the job will just be provided.  :)

Cheers! 
 
Don't forget that in the CF (once you are done BMQ, QL3, etc and posted to your base) you can go see the SISIP guys and get free financial advice and some low interest loans, if required.
 
PMedMoe said:
free financial advice and some low interest loans, if required.

Low interest loans to purchase anything you like or on the grounds that you use the money to pay off other debt?
 
MedTechStudent said:
Low interest loans to purchase anything you like or on the grounds that you use the money to pay off other debt?

The Personal Assitance Fund:

http://www.sisip.com/en/about_e.asp
http://www.sisip.com/en/cfpaf_e/index.asp

I don't know how much things have changed when I was in - but out of control debt used to affect clearances. (Not saying owing money in general - most people do, but rather
having serious troubles paying it off)

Part of the reason these financial assistance funds were created if I recall.

muffin
 
MedTechStudent said:
Which as I said I think it does, however, hauger is right, no one really knows whether he needs that 8k but him. 

I agree. His poersonal situation asside, if the pay is not good enough for him, thats a personal choice and so be it, good luck to him. That being said, and i know i'm repeating myself here, $30k a year for a job where you can join with not even HS, be completely trained from scratch and all the benefits that are attached is pretty damned good. Its certainly better that the $17k i was making when i joined.
 
CDN Aviator said:
a job where you can join with not even HS, be completely trained from scratch and all the benefits that are attached is pretty damned good.

My turn to agree, that was exactly the appeal to me when I was reading through the pay/benefits section.

I thought to myself, "Pay money and go into debt to go to school for 3 years, or get paid to go to school and get the same degree in 62 weeks.  No brainer"

Not to mention with the baby boomers getting up there, a civilian paramedic job is going to be primarily elderly chest pain calls.  Or so my girlfriends father (Peterborough EMS) has told me.

muffin said:
The Personal Assitance Fund:

http://www.sisip.com/en/about_e.asp
http://www.sisip.com/en/cfpaf_e/index.asp

I don't know how much things have changed when I was in - but out of control debt used to affect clearances. (Not saying owing money in general - most people do, but rather
having serious troubles paying it off)

Part of the reason these financial assistance funds were created if I recall.

muffin


Thanks for those links muffin!

Cheers!
 
First off Canuck - I encourage you to ignore the slams that have been posted here. I have served 23 years and you can be sure that everyone I have ever dealt with sure were worried about money when they had a claim submitted or their pay is short a few dollars.  Mention pay increase is in and watch the dollar signs roll around in their eyes.

Monthly pay scale (effective 1 Apr 2007) for Pte is:

IPC 1 - $2534   (IPC increases each year on the anniversary of your enrolment)
IPC 2 - $3099
IPC 3 - $3722

Unless you are a real screw up year 4 should see you promoted to Cpl which pay scale is:

BASIC -$4260
IPC 1 - $4322
IPC 2 - $4384
IPC 3 - $4445
IPC 4 - $4504

Depending on your location estimate approx 32% of that to be deducted for taxes, pension, cpp, mess dues, etc.

Semi skilled may have an impact on which ipc level they start you at - best to talk to the recruiting staff but don't count on anything until you have it.

Hopefully this helps you.
 
Wow,

There are alot of opinions here and very few facts.  Guilty as charged here - however I can't think of anyone I know (and I know LOTS of people) who's lives hung in the balance over 8k.  Remember, work clothing costs, commute costs will reduce/eliminated when joining the CF - as well, 8k/year breaks down to 5k after-tax or $416/month.

Assuming that this fellow, like most folks spend about $8-10/day on coffee, food, snacks, etc...without even thinking about it.  
- Timmies - $1.50
- Lunch - $5 to $6
- Snack - $1

That $416 shortfall can be reduced to $216/month.  Cut out one or two restaurants/week or a movie a week can reduce the shortfall to say - $180/month.

$180/month = $2160/year shortfall.  Getting creative with expenses will even out the score.  I know I am making a bunch of assumptions here but in the end - there is a way.  Fixed costs aside, the variables can be changed.  It all sounds very ideal but I've taken enough courses, read enough books and been through an exercise like this myself to know it can be done.  Read the "Automatic Millionaire" - it'll help put things into perspective.  It's not easy but the good stuff never is.

J
 
[thread hijack]

8K a year may be a significant drop in pay.  Check out these people who think $40-50 for a Mess Dinner once (or twice) a year might cause undue stress for their finances.  ::)

[/end thread hijack]
 
wow, and I thought 20K a year was good enough!  I'm actually looking forward to making 30K a year!  For me its a $10 000 a year pay increase!
 
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