Osama Bin Laden Dead

[callsign]

Tried by who?  Where?  Under what procedures?
Ah, so even though we try him in court, you know it would lead to an execution?  Some "court process" there.

Why not tried by the US in New York City and charged with acts of terrorism, murder, etc? I ended my sentence that way based on the assumptions that the death penalty would have been sought as a verdict, that the presiding judge would have granted it, and that eventually he would have been found guilty due to the overwhelming amount of evidence against him.  It would have also brought more closure to the families and friends of those who perished on 9/11.  Timothy McVeigh got a trial, so why shouldn't Osama? 

Whenever feasible, I feel litigation and due process should be afforded out of respect for rule of law. 

 

[Container]

Enemy combatant. Just because he was pants down doesnt mean he's out of play. Courts are for criminals- he was an enemy caught by commandos unaware. Short of backup in another country, already amazingly complicated- dragging a 6'7" senior kicking and screaming in an already dirty situation was contingent on his absolute compliance.

"Hands up get on the floor"

anything other than immediate compliance- "plink plink", slight pause, "plink".

Not to mention- tried in the US suffering years of his lawyers arguing the legality of his capture, and courts taking years to determine what court has jurisdiction, all the while he is free to make ridiculous comments and be given a platform. Then he dies of natural causes in jail.

I like the temporary feeling in every terrorists stomach that any bump in the night could be SEALs arriving to collect what they owe. Much better display of strength than watching our system fail us.

Also- what proof do you have that Timothy McVeighs victims got any closure? The only victim closure I've ever seen is relief that the process is over.

 

[jwtg]

They should have taken him alive, tried him in court, and then executed him. 

Oh the irony. 

 

[jwtg]

Why not tried by the US in New York City and charged with acts of terrorism, murder, etc? I ended my sentence that way based on the assumptions that the death penalty would have been sought as a verdict, that the presiding judge would have granted it, and that eventually he would have been found guilty due to the overwhelming amount of evidence against him.  It would have also brought more closure to the families and friends of those who perished on 9/11.  Timothy McVeigh got a trial, so why shouldn't Osama? 
Whenever feasible, I feel litigation and due process should be afforded out of respect for rule of law.

Ever seen the movie 'SWAT'?

Also, maybe US drones should start sending down handcuffs instead of missiles when they target terrorist leaders.  Due process right?  Not like we're talking about combatants or anything.

 

[callsign]

Ever seen the movie 'SWAT'?

Also, maybe US drones should start sending down handcuffs instead of missiles when they target terrorist leaders.  Due process right?  Not like we're talking about combatants or anything.

Hey, if they had hit him with a hellfire or two and he got killed, I wouldn't have made that post.  But since they took the time to dispatch a few helicopters full of Navy SEALs into Pakistan and confront him like it's Team America World Police, then why not just toss a flashbang in the room and arrest him?  He clearly wasn't an immediate threat before he was killed.

 

[Container]

Hey, if they had hit him with a hellfire or two and he got killed, I wouldn't have made that post.  But since they took the time to dispatch a few helicopters full of Navy SEALs into Pakistan and confront him like it's Team America World Police, then why not just toss a flashbang in the room and arrest him?  He clearly wasn't an immediate threat before he was killed.

Hey look at the guy with no experience in anything say that he was no threat!

Well he would know!

Not knowing anything about ANY of the subject matter, and not even being there, or seeing what happened!

Flashbangs! HA! You're alright kid.

Hopefully America learned their lesson- Hellfire strike on suspected compound in another country- killing his wives and his kids OKAY

Going in and shooting only some of the people- NOT OKAY If you decide to go to the compound you must arrest and give a show trial before executions! People love good TV!

*edited to include quote so no Ninja edits!*

 

[Jarnhamar]

Why not tried by the US in New York City and charged with acts of terrorism, murder, etc? I ended my sentence that way based on the assumptions that the death penalty would have been sought as a verdict, that the presiding judge would have granted it, and that eventually he would have been found guilty due to the overwhelming amount of evidence against him.  It would have also brought more closure to the families and friends of those who perished on 9/11.  Timothy McVeigh got a trial, so why shouldn't Osama? 

Whenever feasible, I feel litigation and due process should be afforded out of respect for rule of law.

We assassinate people all the time. A sneaky sneaky team of seals creeping around someones house or dropping a cruise missile on their heads. (Though usually in the former there is far less collateral damage).
Do we give Mr X who has a hell fire screaming towards him in village #42 a "fair trial"? No.  He isn't a part of our justice system or our nation.  If someone/country doesn't want to embrace our way of life, our laws or rules etc.. That's fine.  We don't have a right to push our laws on to them, how they roll is their business.
But the minute someone threatens our existence it becomes us vs them and since they don't give a shit about our law of due process and all that, it shouldn't apply to them.

Osama didn't deserve a trial, he gave up his status as a human being and didn't deserve to be treated as such.

 

[jwtg]

Hey, if they had hit him with a hellfire or two and he got killed, I wouldn't have made that post.  But since they took the time to dispatch a few helicopters full of Navy SEALs into Pakistan and confront him like it's Team America World Police, then why not just toss a flashbang in the room and arrest him?  He clearly wasn't an immediate threat before he was killed.

I'm not as concerned as you are about where the finger was that pulled the trigger.  A SEAL in the room or a UAV pilot/operator sitting miles away- bin Laden chose to enter into violent conflict with the US as a combatant- and the US responded.

At least the SEALs had the decency to use a gun instead of a civilian passenger plane.

 

[helpup]

The moment he chose to use himself as a lightening rod for discontent with the West (see also all things US) Osama.  The moment, he chose to actively instigate attacks against the US (and the West) our little conductor was doing the equivalent of a rain dance.  I wish it could of happened sooner but hey it is lightening.... :bullet:

 

[Brutus]

I was wondering the same thing immediately following his killing - why not capture and try him? The most obvious answer I came up with, and that's not to say it bares any resemblance to reality, is that they didn't want to assume the risk.

Risk of the helocopter getting shot down on the return flight.
Risk of the helocopter having a malfunction and going down.
Risk of unsuccesful conviction.
And to a lesser extent, risk of retaliation for having him in custody on US soil.

In the end, I think it's fairly obvious he was guilty, and that his crimes certainly warrant a swift death, which in the end they were able to facilitate on the spot. Problem solved.

 

[Container]

I think Obama was pretty clear. They were to capture him alive if the situation warranted. The least bit of a curveball - kill him to make sure that in one manner or another the mission was accomplished.

I dont know these particular guys. But I know enough guys like them to know that they spend all day everyday getting ready to accomplish the mission. If the mission went this way its because the situation warranted it. Suggesting anything else is silly- they are PROS not hitmen. They just have the hitman card in their deck.

The only thing I have to say is the same thing I said when Obama gave his statement. "Awesome."

 

[Old Sweat]

Add to that the possibility of not being able to extract a live Osama. He was a senior enemy combatant killed in a raid, just as Heydrich was in the Second World War. Other senior enemy leaders targeted included Yamamoto and Rommel. The former died, the latter escaped because he was not where the British thought he was when the raid was mounted.

For whatever it is worth, one of my thoughts when I first started watching the carnage on 9/11 was "Lord have mercy on whoever did this, because the Americans won't."

 

[OldSolduer]

Hey, if they had hit him with a hellfire or two and he got killed, I wouldn't have made that post.  But since they took the time to dispatch a few helicopters full of Navy SEALs into Pakistan and confront him like it's Team America World Police, then why not just toss a flashbang in the room and arrest him?  He clearly wasn't an immediate threat before he was killed.

You've been watching too many Special Forces movies and lawyer TV shows. This isn't an episode of Law and Order with Sam Waterson waxing supreme about due process, nor "The Green Berets".
Osama Bin Laden caused the deaths of over 3000 people, including 24 fellow Canadians. Too freakin bad if we "offend" your sensibilities.

In WWII, the Americans found out Admiral Yamamoto was flying in an unarmed transport aircraft...so they shot it down, killing him. Would that have offended you as well? Maybe they could have forced him to land and arrest him and try him in Pearl Harbour?

As for your little dig "Team America World Police" maybe you and Carolyn Parish could compare anti American sentiments.

 

[mariomike]

In WWII, the Americans found out Admiral Yamamoto was flying in an unarmed transport aircraft...so they shot it down, killing him.

He was a wise man. Educated at Harvard, and generally liked Americans. Although he did not live to see it, he predicted the future in 1939: "Japanese cities, being made of wood and paper, would burn very easily. The Army talks big, but if war came and there were large-scale air raids, there's no telling what would happen."

Edit to add:
Rommel said about the same thing: "... it is no good going on because all we get by going on is to loose another city every night".

 

[57Chevy]

.....does it ever really end ?

  ;D

Starting to sound like a lousy sitcom he comes back with another last message.

                                            - shared with provisions of The Copyright Act -

Bin Laden fosters Arab revolt in posthumous message
Agence France-Presse May 19
http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/Laden+fosters+Arab+revolt+posthumous+message/4808617/story.html#ixzz1MnTfbcEl
WASHINGTON — Al-Qaida has released a message from slain leader Osama bin Laden praising the revolutions in Egypt and Tunisia and urging Muslims to take advantage of a "rare historic opportunity" to rise up, a U.S. monitor said.

The message posted on jihadist forums on Wednesday by al-Qaida's media arm As-Sahab addresses Muslims on the revolutions sweeping the Middle East and North Africa, SITE Intelligence Group said.

Speaking from beyond the grave...........etc etc

read more at link if you care to...

 

[StepDad]

Taking Bin Laden alive was, IMO, the worst thing they could have done. Every Al Queda splinter group in the world would probably be trying to secure a large group of Western nation hostages in order to secure his release.

 

[callsign]

Hey look at the guy with no experience in anything say that he was no threat!

Well he would know!

Not knowing anything about ANY of the subject matter, and not even being there, or seeing what happened!

Flashbangs! HA! You're alright kid.

Hopefully America learned their lesson- Hellfire strike on suspected compound in another country- killing his wives and his kids OKAY

Going in and shooting only some of the people- NOT OKAY If you decide to go to the compound you must arrest and give a show trial before executions! People love good TV!

*edited to include quote so no Ninja edits!*

A friend of mine was stabbed to death a few years ago. I knew who did it, so I guess I should have killed him right?  Avenge the pain-stricken  grief of his family and friends?    I thought about it to tell you the truth, but then I realized that I would be soon on trial for murder.  Why? Because we have rule of law here.  And it worked, the man in question was found guilty of 2nd degree murder, and got 25 years in prison.  A death penalty would have been more comforting, but I'm sure you know the law of the land regarding capital punishment here.

All we did was turn him into a martyr for much of the Islamic world by killing him without due process.  And besides, I'm sure interrogating Osama would have yielded some fruit given the fact that he is a coward.

You've been watching too many Special Forces movies and lawyer TV shows. This isn't an episode of Law and Order with Sam Waterson waxing supreme about due process, nor "The Green Berets".
Osama Bin Laden caused the deaths of over 3000 people, including 24 fellow Canadians. Too freakin bad if we "offend" your sensibilities.

In WWII, the Americans found out Admiral Yamamoto was flying in an unarmed transport aircraft...so they shot it down, killing him. Would that have offended you as well? Maybe they could have forced him to land and arrest him and try him in Pearl Harbour?

As for your little dig "Team America World Police" maybe you and Carolyn Parish could compare anti American sentiments.

I expected more than just ad hominem attacks from you Mr. Seggie.  You sound like exactly my dad when we debate Israeli foreign policy

 

[Scott]

callsign,

Quit trolling. While it might be borderline here it is not so much so in other threads. End it now or go into the warning system.

Staff

 

[GAP]

I expected more than just ad hominem attacks from you Mr. Seggie.  You sound like exactly my dad when we debate Israeli foreign policy

Then maybe you should have listened a little closer to what you dad was saying about Israeli foreign policy

 

[callsign]

Then maybe you should have listened a little closer to what you dad was saying about Israeli foreign policy

I used to agree with his viewpoints; but then I realized that they were archaic and slightly war mongering.  I got a bit older and started reading on my own, and began forming my own opinions based on a much more holistic perspective.  I partially thank Noam Chomsky and Norman Finkelstein for that.

Taking Bin Laden alive was, IMO, the worst thing they could have done. Every Al Queda splinter group in the world would probably be trying to secure a large group of Western nation hostages in order to secure his release.

You do raise an excellent point.

Maybe we could have figured out a better way to dismantle Al-Qaeda based off the interrogations?  You can't tell me that he didn't have valuable information stored in that evil mind of his.

Either way, neither of us would be able to predict what would have happened had the SEALs taken him alive.  I got shit on for just saying that it was not absolutely necessary to kill him.  I know for a fact that many other experienced posters on this forum agree with what I have said, but they'll keep their mouths shut to protect their reputation here..