Osama Bin Laden Dead

[Edward Campbell]

You are 100% correct.  A murder commited contrary to a civil law is punishable by civil laws.  There is also a rule of law for wars.  In this case, Osama bin Laden was an enemy combatant (armed or not) until such time that he surrendered himself to us (his enemy).  It appears that he didn't, therefore, he was legally killed in accordance with the laws of armed conflict, even though at the time of his death he presented no immediate threat.

I would offer that you not blur the line between civil law and the law of armed conflict.  The same laws of armed conflict allowed us to shoot soldiers of the Wehrmacht on sight between 1939 and 1945, whether they were armed or not, whether they were awake or not.  And the same law allowed members of the Wehrmacht to kill members of the Canadian Forces during the same time frame, whether  they were armed or not, whether they were awake or not.  This is why members of the Wehrmacht were not tried for warcrimes after the war for killing Canadian Soldiers who hadn't surrendered.  (And it's also the reason why members of the Wehrmacht and Waffen-SS who killed Canadian Soldiers who HAD surrendered were tried for war crimes)

Thank you, TV for a succinct and very correct explanation of that bit of the laws and usages if war.

Everyone please note the TV's explanation and stop spouting nonsense.

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

You are 100% correct.  A murder commited contrary to a civil law is punishable by civil laws.  There is also a rule of law for wars.  In this case, Osama bin Laden was an enemy combatant (armed or not) until such time that he surrendered himself to us (his enemy).  It appears that he didn't, therefore, he was legally killed in accordance with the laws of armed conflict, even though at the time of his death he presented no immediate threat.

I would offer that you not blur the line between civil law and the law of armed conflict.  The same laws of armed conflict allowed us to shoot soldiers of the Wehrmacht on sight between 1939 and 1945, whether they were armed or not, whether they were awake or not.  And the same law allowed members of the Wehrmacht to kill members of the Canadian Forces during the same time frame, whether  they were armed or not, whether they were awake or not.  This is why members of the Wehrmacht were not tried for warcrimes after the war for killing Canadian Soldiers who hadn't surrendered.  (And it's also the reason why members of the Wehrmacht and Waffen-SS who killed Canadian Soldiers who HAD surrendered were tried for war crimes)

callsign and other like minded individuals please take note.

Milnet.Ca Staff

 

[Fishbone Jones]

callsign has been summed up as noted here already, no need to continue to do so.

TV only reiterated what has been said here more than once already. No need to keep repeating it.

If there is no reason to move on, we can lock this up.

Someone post something relevent, that hasn't already been stated, else we are likely done here.

Milnet.ca Staff

 

[callsign]

Hey guys,

I apologize for the brash and cocky remarks made in my earlier posts.  I also admit that it was dumb to compare rule of law in civil society versus a situation in armed conflict.  Kudos to Technoviking for his well-written post.  It was not my intention to offend anyone here, and if I did directly offend you, please accept my humble apology.  I do, however, stand by my opinion that it would have been better to take him alive, and in saying that; I shall end my involvement in this thread with this post so that the discussion may continue peacefully.

 

[HavokFour]

Did a pork-coated bullet kill Bin Laden? Yes, says firm who claim its pig fat gun oil is bought by U.S. military personnel​

Article

Was Osama bin Laden shot with a bullet soaked in pork fat, denying him a place in paradise?

Yes, if one rather shady website, that peddles gun oil containing liquefied pig fat, is to be believed.

The makers of Silver Bullet Gun Oil claim it contains 13 per cent USDA liquefied pig fat thus making the product 'a highly effective counter-Islamic terrorist force multiplier.'

The apparent owner of the gun oil site, who goes by the name 'The Midnight Rider,' explains how the pig fat will transfer onto anything the bullet strikes.

This 'effectively denies entry to Allah's paradise to an Islamo-fascist terrorist,' Rider adds.

The oil, which costs $8.95 for 4oz, apparently puts the 'fear of death into them (terrorists)'.

In Islam consumption of pork is forbidden, but the Quran also states that if one is forced to consume the meat then they are guiltless and therefore not disqualified from paradise.

The website also notes its customers include members of the U.S. military.

'Thousands of bottles of Silver Bullet Gun Oil have been distributed since July of 2004 by its creator to members of ALL U.S. Military branches,' it claims.

A promotional YouTube video for the oil shows a picture of Bin Laden and the claim: 'Killed with a weapon using Silver Bullet Gun Oil'.

'Midnite Rider' also known as 'Warrior of YAHWEH,' claims to be a former Marine scout sniper on the site.

Pictures of the 'production line' show a masked men wearing regulation Marine camouflage uniform, that is officially off-limits for civilians.

A disclaimer on the website also reads: 'This product is for use on armed Muslim terrorists only.

'We do not promote discrimination against any race or religion, only terrorists.'

A spokesman for the U.S. Army's weapons-procurement command told the Southern Pverty Law Center's Hatewatch - a not-for-profit that monitors the evolving problem of online bigotry - that he was unfamiliar with Silver Bullet, 'though he conceded that a soldier or marine could theoretically purchase the oil on his or her own and use it on the battlefield.'

 

[Gimpy]

Did a pork-coated bullet kill Bin Laden? Yes, says firm who claim its pig fat gun oil is bought by U.S. military personnel​

Article

Yeah, I would take anything the Daily Mail says with a heaping portion of salt. They produce insane amounts of sensationalistic trash. There are just so many holes and ridiculous statements in that article it would take more time than it deserves to go through this article.

 

[Kat Stevens]

Maybe, but I bet it's a hot topic in every mosque in Britain.

 

[Hammer Sandwich]

Did a pork-coated bullet kill Bin Laden? Yes, says firm who claim its pig fat gun oil is bought by U.S. military personnel

I welcome the authors of this to go boink themselves.
I have serious doubt that anyone involved with that raid would have done anything to compromise their equipment, (whether that be smothering themselves, their comrades, or their bullets in pork.)

I would like to think the guys on the ground accomplished the mission at hand, and left me to wake up to the beautiful, wonderful news of it.

IMO, any person in that level of professionalism will not taint themselves with dumbass shit like that....


(BTW.....I brought in pulled pork for breakfast at work that day...NOMNOMNOM)

 

[The Bread Guy]

Maybe, but I bet it's a hot topic in every mosque in Britain.

Not to mention radical online forums that help crank up those already predisposed to be cranked up.

Meanwhile, AQ's HR department may be continuing its "whack a mole" succession planning....

A top al-Qaida commander and possible replacement for Osama bin Laden was killed in an American drone-fired missile strike close to the Afghan border, a fax from the militant group he heads and a Pakistani intelligence official said Saturday.

Ilyas Kashmiri's apparent death is another blow to al-Qaida just over a month after bin Laden was killed by American commandos in a northwest Pakistani army town. Described by U.S. officials as al-Qaida's military operations chief in Pakistan, the 47-year-old Pakistani was one of five most-wanted militant leaders in the country, accused of a string of bloody attacks in South Asia, including the 2008 Mumbai massacre, as well as aiding plots in the West. Washington had offered a $5 million bounty for information leading to his location.

His death was not confirmed publicly by the United States or Pakistani officials. Verifying who has been killed in the drone strikes is difficult. Initial reports have turned out to be wrong in the past, including one in September 2009 that said Kashmiri had been killed. Sometimes they are never formally denied or confirmed by authorities here or in the United States ....

More here.

 

[Rifleman62]

Sign in Alaska

 

[The Bread Guy]

I didn't realize the chopper could hold SOOOO many SEALs...

Osama bin Laden’s death increased the American public’s love affair with the elite SEALs, unfortunately the number of SEAL fakers has increased as well.

In fact, there has been such a surge in Americans pretending to be SEALs that Steve Robinson, a Navy SEAL imposter hunter, was forced to come out of retirement.

“Before I retired I handled 12 to 20 inquiries each day,” Robinson, a retired Navy SEAL who works with the imposter tracking website the P.O.W. Network told the Toronto Star on the phone in Forsyth, Mo. “The morning after the President announced the death of bin Laden … at that point until the beginning of June we were handling 30 to 50 each day.”

While these emails are only queries about possible impostors, Robinson points to past number to highlight the potential number of fakers ....

Source:  Toronto Star

 

[daftandbarmy]

Here's the truth......................

Imagine living with 3 wives in one compound and never leaving the house for 5 years - It is now believed that Bin Laden called the US Navy Seals himself.
;D

 

[toyotatundra]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/books/8611313/I-wish-I-could-have-pulled-the-trigger-on-bin-Laden.html

Of the millions of people delighted to see the back of Osama bin Laden, few could have been happier than Howard E Wasdin, a 49-year-old American chiropractor. Not only was the operation carried out by Seal Team Six, the elite special operations unit in which he’d once served, it also took place less than a fortnight before his memoir, Seal Team Six, was due to be published.

A link to the new book:

http://www.amazon.com/SEAL-Team-Six-Memoirs-Sniper/dp/031269945X

 

[Ridge Runner]

I was quite relieved when the news came through that he was indeed killed and dead, however I was not jumping up and down and throwing a big party.  I just quietly remembered 9-11, where I was and my family were, and the sacrifice of many all to get where we are now. I noticed a huge billboard the other day, still up,  along the highway in the city which said 'Osama bin Laden is dead', next line was 'Thank-you US Military Forces'. Plenty of tee-shirts here too, some rather tasteless and vulgar, but some which make the point quite proudly.

I teach school, the 2nd grade, and they even knew (as much as kids this age can comprehend anyways) that something big had happened, hearing things from their moms and dads I would imagine. How does one answer questions in class shy of saying he was a very bad man that is no longer here to be bad anymore.

 

[Ridge Runner]

I wanted to add this tee shirt which I like. This is on the back, the front has a neat  and tidy 'Patriot' symbol from Bill O'Reilly's website if anyone is interested.

 

[mariomike]

I just quietly remembered 9-11, where I was and my family were, and the sacrifice of many all to get where we are now.

I did not see 9-11 on TV until hours after the fact. But, in Toronto, I saw people pouring out of the downtown skyscrapers, the court houses at Old City Hall,  Osgoode Hall, University Ave., the CN Tower, the Eaton Centre. The buildings were evacuated and everyone sent home in the middle of a business day.
That is something I had never seen before.
It gave city emergency planners an idea of the chaos to expect if an attack were to happen in the financial district.
Although we never trained for it, an airliner - accidentally - crashing into an office tower was always considered the worst case scenario. Prior to 9/11, we used to joke about it sometimes when the bus phone rang. But, I never heard anyone joke about it again.

"On September 11, 2001, the rescuers at the World Trade Center saved over 25,000 lives."
New York City Mayor Rudolph Giuliani

 

[Ridge Runner]

My Mom still lives in New Jersey, about 25 minutes to Penn Station by train, and I grew up there, in fact went to the same high school as Jason Alexander went to. NYC was always a challenge to go in, and we only went in when company came to see the usual sights. My late Father worked there, as does my brother now. I was to the 9-11 site in May, and it's coming along. If you ever get a chance to go, head to Battery Park to see the 'sphere' scarred by both collapsing towers. Hard to believe it will be 10 years soon.

 

[mariomike]

Here is a picture of Ground Zero and the 9-11 memorial taken on April 25,2010.

"Two large reflecting pools and cascading waterfalls on the site are intended to create a serene environment for quiet contemplation of the lives lost during the terror attacks. They may also be a frustrating reminder there's nowhere to relieve oneself.":
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/manhattan/nowhere_to_go_at_site_QYHA9VcFaaBMuYAiWNDhYO

"Never Forget...To Use The Bathroom Before Visiting The 9/11 Memorial":
http://gothamist.com/2011/05/22/whoops_911_memorial_and_museum_has.php

"Visitors will be provided with information to help plan their visit, including being advised that bathrooms will not be accessible on the site."

"They said there are also no plans to haul porta-potties to the picturesque, tree-filled site for its official debut."

 

[a_majoor]

Long article in the New Yorker on the mechanics of the raid. First draft of History for the interested:

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2011/08/08/110808fa_fact_schmidle?currentPage=all

 

[Recruit_in_Progress]

Same unit is in the news again.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-14435854

Same unit but unlikely to be the same members couldn't imagine the high to low that they are feeling.

The US military is trying to confirm whether insurgent fire brought down a helicopter in Afghanistan with the loss of 38 people, most of them Americans.

The dead included Navy Seals, Afghan commandos, US Air Force personnel, a dog handler, the Chinook crew and a civilian interpreter.

The 30 US deaths are the largest single American loss of life in the conflict.

On Sunday another four Nato soldiers were killed in two separate attacks in Afghanistan.

France has confirmed that two of its soldiers were among the dead - they were killed during an operation in the Tagab valley in Kapisa province, north-east of Kabul, President Nicolas Sarkozy's office said in a statement. Five other French soldiers were injured.

Nato has not confirmed the nationality of the other two soldiers but said they were killed in an attack in the south.

Bin Laden unit
The Chinook helicopter went down in a district of Wardak province, west of Kabul, early on Saturday.

Officials, witnesses and the Taliban have said it was shot down by insurgents during a combat mission.

The presence of at least 17 of the Seals has led to speculation that they were involved in a highly significant operation, such as targeting a high-ranking figure in the insurgency.

US sources have said they were from the same Navy Seal unit, known as Team Six, which killed Osama Bin Laden in May, but are "unlikely" to be the same personnel.

American officials have refused to confirm the cause of the crash on the record but some have told news agencies they believe the Chinook was shot down.

Afghan officials in Wardak province said a Taliban rocket hit the craft. A local resident who saw the incident told the BBC that he saw the Chinook catch fire and crash after a rocket hit it.

The Taliban claimed they shot the helicopter down as it was involved in a raid on a house in Wardak where insurgents were gathering.

The BBC's Quentin Sommerville in Kabul says it is rare for the Taliban to shoot down aircraft.

The Taliban say they have modified their rocket-propelled grenades to improve their accuracy but that may not be true, our correspondent says.

'Extraordinary sacrifices'
The top US military officer, Adm Mike Mullen, said it was too soon to say what brought it down.

"Their deaths are a reminder of the extraordinary sacrifices made by the men and women of our military and their families, including all who have served in Afghanistan," he said in a statement on Saturday.

The US is relying more on special forces to fight the war against insurgents in Afghanistan, carrying out night raids against key leaders and conducting surveillance operations.

After last year's increase in troop numbers - credited with some success in reducing Taliban activity in southern Afghanistan - some withdrawals have begun. The goal is for all foreign combat forces to leave the country by the end of 2014.

There are currently about 140,000 foreign troops - about 100,000 of them American - in Afghanistan, fighting the Taliban insurgency and training local troops to take over security.

The Nato-led International Security Assistance Force has begun the process of handing over control of security in some areas to local forces. Bamiyan became the first province to pass to Afghan control in mid-July.