Ontario Politics in 2018

[mariomike]

Assume that name-calling qualifies as an informed opinion?

I came of age long before the internet. We looked things up in the Encyclopedia Britannica.

Social media bloggers have taken up the slack from newspapers and TV news.

I admit to not being “with it” when it comes to modern political smack-talk.

Political acronyms and insults I am unfamiliar with make me feel ... OLD. 

I need to look them up in the Urban Dictionary to understand what they actually mean. 

It used to be people could agree to disagree. Keep political arguments non-personal and remain friends.

Maybe one of these days people will shift gears, and start liking those who don't necessarily vote for the same party.

Just because some anonymous person on social media calls them "sheeple" ( or worse ) if they don't?

 

[mariomike]

Don't forget though that Ford country was able to obtain enough votes to win Toronto in spite of its left-leaning tendancies and his brother was every bit as big a buffoon as Doug is.

That was true in 2010 with Ford Nation. And again in 2014 with John Tory, who had served as the leader of the Progressive Conservative Party of Ontario.

Although Ford Nation lost that election.

Ford campaigned on "Stop the gravy train" and "Respect for taxpayers".

Ford pledged to do away with the city's century-old fair-wage policy, which required that private contractors be paid the same as union employees.

Ford also took on the city unions, which were seen by many in Ford Nation as too powerful, with generous benefits and pension plans.

Justin Trudeau came to Toronto to support Ford's opponent, George Smitherman.

Rob Ford had no such allies. He had only his brother Doug and Ford Nation.

The campaign got pretty nasty.

George Smitherman, who was openly gay and married to a man, was the target of homophobic ads.

There were also signs posted about a "Wife-beating, racist drunk".

If you look at the election map, it can be seen that Ford Nation did very well with suburban voters against the "downtown liberal elites".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toronto_mayoral_election,_2010#/media/File:Toronto_Election_2010_Map.svg

How  Ford Nation will do in the 2018 provincial election is the subject of an article in yesterday's Sun by Joe Oliver. Former MP for Forest Hill,

QUOTE

In support of populism and Doug Ford
http://torontosun.com/opinion/columnists/oliver-in-support-of-populism-and-doug-ford

END QUOTE

 

[CountDC]

Well, looks like my kids are in for some boring classes in their futures and may come off as the smartest kids in their class when it comes to the sex ed.  We have always taught them the correct name for their body parts to the extent of correcting them when they use one of the popular slang terms. We do not have winged and beaked body parts.

Don't see an issue with sex ed and really don't understand the desire to live in the dark ages about it.  Hopefully by educating our kids they will be the ones that are not sexting at 13 and pregnant at 14.

but to be safe we have told them no sex until they are 30...... :rofl:

 

[Fishbone Jones]

I see Wynne travelling around talking of spending millions and billions on more social programs that don't give anything to those paying for them.

I see exactly the same thing from Horvath.

They have already run out of other people's money. The taxpayers are skint, and the only way for the liebrals and dippers to fund their plans are to keep stealing from taxpayers and taking out loans. Of course, they likely won't keep their promises anyway, especially Wynne, she's liebral and deceit and betrayal are just second nature to them.

Ford is talking reducing. The taxes, hydro rates, eliminating cap & trade for starters. Those are things I can get behind.

I love the way they keep dragging Rob Ford's corpse out, to try scare people.

High on crack and whatever, drunk, boisterous and still did a better job, and lowered costs on those days, than the liebrals have ever done straight and sober.  :rofl:

 

[Lumber]

I see Wynne travelling around talking of spending millions and billions on more social programs that don't give anything to those paying for them.

I see exactly the same thing from Horvath.

They have already run out of other people's money. The taxpayers are skint, and the only way for the liebrals and dippers to fund their plans are to keep stealing from taxpayers and taking out loans. Of course, they likely won't keep their promises anyway, especially Wynne, she's liebral and deceit and betrayal are just second nature to them.

Ford is talking reducing. The taxes, hydro rates, eliminating cap & trade for starters. Those are things I can get behind.

I love the way they keep dragging Rob Ford's corpse out, to try scare people.

High on crack and whatever, drunk, boisterous and still did a better job, and lowered costs on those days, than the liebrals have ever done straight and sober.  :rofl:

RG, your posts are always well written and you provide an excellent perspective, but do you not realize your posts lose a not-insignificant amount of credibility with your repeated use of the term "liebrals"? If the liberals are as bad as you say there are, then you're arguments should be enough. "Liebrals" comes across as immature and churlish, and I think you're better then that.

 

[mariomike]

I love the way they keep dragging Rob Ford's corpse out, to try scare people.

Doug wanted an open casket - draped with a “Ford Nation” flag - in the City Hall rotunda.

Doug was posing for selfies next to Rob's casket.
http://www.metronews.ca/news/toronto/2016/03/28/doug-ford-poses-for-selfies-during-rob-ford-memorial.html
"I feel like Doug Ford is running for office on his brother's corpse," wrote one observer.

Doug did the eulogy, "And don't worry, Ford Nation will continue — continue respecting the taxpayers."

Doug's four years in politics are closely connected to Rob.

Doug replaced Rob as the Ward 2 councillor when Rob vacated to became mayor.

Rob Ford and Giorgio Mammoliti were the only members of Council who endorsed Doug as a candidate for mayor.

Rob and Doug hosted a weekly two-hour radio program on CFRB Newstalk 1010 called The City with Mayor Rob Ford & Councillor Doug Ford.

Rob and Doug Ford hosted Ford Nation on the Sun News Network.

Rob and Doug Ford hosted the annual Ford Fests.

Rob and Doug were interviewed many times together. When Rob was unavailable, Doug would speak for him.

Rob and Doug wrote a book together, "Ford Nation: Two Brothers, One Vision".

QUOTE

Mr. Ford vowed to find unnamed “efficiencies,” said it would be “simple” to do, and repeated his empty slogan, “Just watch me.”

END QUOTE

QUOTE

"Mayor Rob Ford will deliver $50-million in "efficiencies" in the way the city is run, he announced without giving any hint as to what the efficiencies will be."
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/rob-ford-promises-50-million-in-savings-in-budget-1.2513042

END QUOTE

 

[Loachman]

Mr. Ford vowed to find unnamed “efficiencies,” said it would be “simple” to do, and repeated his empty slogan, “Just watch me.”

Simply replacing the current regime would be an efficiency.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Wynne's racist remarks trying to shill for votes is pathetic.  First the conservatives will knock her out of office then hopefully Trudeau next.

 

[mariomike]

Simply replacing the current regime would be an efficiency.

When Doug was Rob's campaign manager he was quoted as saying, "Up here we call this Ford Country. Rob could commit murder on the steps of City Hall and they will still vote for him."

No reason to believe anything has changed with Ford Nation. 

As a retired city employee, Rob and Doug's talk of "efficiencies" caught my attention. I understood the public safety risk of closing stations to get votes.

Fortunately, being retired in 2009, my pension and retirement benefits were "grand-fathered" by the time Rob and Doug came into power in 2010.

But, I had friends still on the job who were alarmed by all their "stop the gravy train" rhetoric.

"Like the firefighters’ union, Police Chief Bill Blair has gone on the offensive, telling reporters that a 10 per cent cut translates into the loss of 1,000 Toronto police officers. Fire Chief Bill Stewart has said a $37 million cut to fire would see 400 firefighters sacrificed at a time when the service is already below its normal complement."

 

[Fishbone Jones]

When Doug was Rob's campaign manager he was quoted as saying, "Up here we call this Ford Country. Rob could commit murder on the steps of City Hall and they will still vote for him."

No reason to believe anything has changed with Ford Nation. 

So what if it doesn't? It's worked for them before.

Wynne's racist remarks trying to shill for votes is pathetic.  First the conservatives will knock her out of office then hopefully Trudeau next.

I called the Ontario Human Rights Commission about charging her with racism and hate speech. I tried their legal entity, to see if there was a case.

Here's their answer. Honest to god.

Racism and hate speech can only be complained about by historically oppressed groups. Whites, were not historically oppressed according to them. So it's not hate speech or racism if it is intoned against whites. I shit you not. They would not comment on Irish slaves or indentured servants being white and oppressed.

I was also told that they would take any complaint against Wynne and send it to the Premier's Office for explanation and that entity would reply to my queries.

There is one inefficiency Doug Ford could save billions on, by shutting down the HRC.

 

[Eaglelord17]

Firefighters have the most to fear out of EMS services. Very cushy job, coupled with very high wages, and a ridiculous amount of job security despite being a very desired job which doesn't require much actual education.

Personally I make less than a firefighter, but based off the firefighters I personally know, I do much more work than they do on a daily basis.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

RG, your posts are always well written and you provide an excellent perspective, but do you not realize your posts lose a not-insignificant amount of credibility with your repeated use of the term "liebrals"? If the liberals are as bad as you say there are, then you're arguments should be enough. "Liebrals" comes across as immature and churlish, and I think you're better then that.

Thanks for the compliments and feedback.

It's my little personal protest. They ARE liars, no sense in denying it. And heavy duty liars to boot. There is just too many instances where they've been caught to consider it an anomaly. This is a party that has taken misdirection and falsehood to new, professional heights. It's a fitting name for them. That's why I use the word 'liebral' instead of 'liberal'. If I don't call them liebrals, I call them grits instead. The liebral party likes to invent words to give backing to their agendas. I like to invent words that are apt and honest descriptors of their party. I can't be responsible if people get hung up on that word and lose site of the rest of the conversation.

I do really appreciate the feedback though Lumber, Cheers.

 

[Jarnhamar]

[quote author=recceguy]
Here's their answer. Honest to god.

Racism and hate speech can only be complained about by historically oppressed groups.
[/quote]
I'm not surprised.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Firefighters have the most to fear out of EMS services. Very cushy job, coupled with very high wages, and a ridiculous amount of job security despite being a very desired job which doesn't require much actual education.

Personally I make less than a firefighter, but based off the firefighters I personally know, I do much more work than they do on a daily basis.

I don't know what you do for a job, but I do know what firemen do. Covered with ice in winter from the water, cooking in the summer inside their bunker gear. Running into burning building when everyone is running out.

The are also plagued with many, horrific, deadly diseases from the fires and chemicals. All kinds of cancers, organs turning to sludge and a host of other things that will not allow many of them to reach retirement.

I begrudge them not one single thing that they get for their service.

You also realize that when they are not fighting fires, they are not just laying on their bunks, right?

Soldiers are really not much different 99% boredom broken up by 1% sheer terror. Should they get less than you?

 

[mariomike]

Regarding Reply #270 and #273,

I'm only familiar with emergency operations in the city where Rob and Doug were elected.

City police officers, firefighters and paramedics are on the same team. Each has their own job to do.

Firefighters have the most to fear out of EMS services.

Integration of the fire and paramedic departments was studied by the City of Toronto in 2013 while Rob was mayor, and Doug was the councillor of Ward 2,

The city decided against it,

QUOTE

“There is little advantage for the expense of training firefighters to a higher level.”
https://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/mmis/2013/ex/bgrd/backgroundfile-59903.pdf

END QUOTE

As far as politics are concerned, the city's police, fire and paramedic unions - elected by their members - support the politicians who support us.

No union can tell their members how to vote, but in previous Ontario elections, the Ontario Professional Firefighters Association ( OPPFA ) has supported the provincial Liberal party.

QUOTE

"Kathleen Wynne makes a campaign stop at the Burlington's Appleby GO Station, where she was greeted firefighters who turned out to support the Grits." ( aka Liberals )
https://www.thestar.com/news/queenspark/2014/05/06/campaign_notes_tales_from_the_trail.html

Firefighters take a Liberal approach

How can you tell you’re at a Liberal campaign event? Look for beefy firefighters in yellow T-shirts.

As they did for former premier Dalton McGuinty, Ontario Professional Fire Fighters Association members are turning out in droves to help the Grits.

Sporting their brightly coloured shirts, the firefighters have brandished Liberal signs and cheered Kathleen Wynne at events in Milton on Monday and Burlington on Tuesday.

END QUOTE

Soldiers are really not much different 99% boredom broken up by 1% sheer terror. Should they get less than you?

You asked Eaglelord17 that question. The Sunshine List was released yesterday. Fair or unfair, the List made it obvious that CAF firefighters are in fact paid  less than municipal firefighters.

Regarding Ontario Politics 2018, Doug railed against the Sunshine List when it was released yesterday. Said regular hardworking folks haven't seen an income hike in years.

On the other hand, he called increasing the minimum wage to $15 an hour by 2019 a tax grab.
https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2018/03/14/minimum-wage-bump-means-1500-more-a-year-for-low-income-workers-economist-says.html

 

[Eaglelord17]

Regarding Reply #270 and #273,
I'm only familiar with emergency operations in the city where Rob and Doug were elected.
City police officers, firefighters and paramedics are on the same team. Each has their own job to do.
Integration of the fire and paramedic departments was studied by the City of Toronto in 2013 while Rob was mayor, and Doug was the councillor of Ward 2,
The city decided against it,
You asked Eaglelord17 that question. The Sunshine List was released yesterday. Fair or unfair, the List made it obvious that CAF firefighters are in fact paid  less than municipal firefighters.
Regarding Ontario Politics 2018, Doug railed against the Sunshine List when it was released yesterday. Said regular hardworking folks haven't seen an income hike in years.
On the other hand, he called increasing the minimum wage to $15 an hour by 2019 a tax grab.
https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2018/03/14/minimum-wage-bump-means-1500-more-a-year-for-low-income-workers-economist-says.html

My point is Firefighters are extremely well paid for what they do. There are people with a lot less job security, doing a lot more dangerous jobs, getting paid less, and ultimately paying for firefighters at the end of the day. Personally I believe pretty much all public service jobs deserve a good cut in income as the rest of the country hasn't kept up and they are the ones at the end of the day paying for them.

I don't know what you do for a job, but I do know what firemen do. Covered with ice in winter from the water, cooking in the summer inside their bunker gear. Running into burning building when everyone is running out.
The are also plagued with many, horrific, deadly diseases from the fires and chemicals. All kinds of cancers, organs turning to sludge and a host of other things that will not allow many of them to reach retirement.
You also realize that when they are not fighting fires, they are not just laying on their bunks, right?
Soldiers are really not much different 99% boredom broken up by 1% sheer terror. Should they get less than you?

Soldiers do make less than me, and I work a lot harder now than I ever did in the Regs, but that is besides the point as I also volunteer my time off to be a part time soldier. I also have to deal with all sorts of nasty chemicals, substances, and potentially life ending situations on a daily basis as I am a millwright. I have also done the whole firefighting thing with the Navy and understand the pros and cons of it having actually been part of a DC emergency on board. Most the firefighters I personally know don't work that hard, get paid to sleep, and are able to maintain a second career. Don't believe that EMS and soldiers are the only ones that have dangerous jobs, many civilian jobs are also dangerous just unrecognized as such.

But this all really shouldn't be part of the Ontario Politics thread, except maybe showing some of the Blue Collar resentment towards nice secure public sector jobs.

 

[mariomike]

But this all really shouldn't be part of the Ontario Politics thread, except maybe showing some of the Blue Collar resentment towards nice secure public sector jobs.

There is a discussion in the Emergency Services forum,

Civilians complaining about Police/Emergency Services' Pay
https://army.ca/forums/threads/102608.100
5 pages.

Original Post: "I also recall there also being a bit of an uproar about Paramedics and Firefighters also being "overpaid"."

 

[Loachman]

Received via e-mail from https://taxpayer.com/, so cannot provide a specific link:

For the first time ever, a provincial auditor general may issue an adverse audit opinion on a province’s financial records. Ontario’s Auditor General, Bonnie Lysyk, is so concerned about incorrect and deceptive accounting that she won’t be able to sign off on them.

An adverse opinion is a professional opinion made by an auditor that financial statements are misrepresented, misstated, and do not accurately reflect financial performance and health.

The auditor general has the sole authority to audit the province’s financial books, and for years Lysyk has expressed her concern. Last year she was so concerned about inaccuracies, that she issued a first ever, “qualified” audit opinion.

Since then, things have got worse, not better.

It’s rare to have someone in government who is speaking truth to power, and what Auditor General Bonnie Lysyk is doing isn’t easy. The government has attacked her repeatedly, but she is still standing up to them.

We want to show her that taxpayers across the province appreciate what she is doing – that we deserve honesty from our government. Please take a moment to email Auditor General Bonnie Lysyk and say THANK YOU for standing up for the truth.

You can reach her at bonnie.lysyk@auditor.on.ca 

The provincial budget will be tabled this week - on Wednesday, March 28. We are anticipating an $8 billion deficit. But based on what the auditor general is saying, it’s possible that things could in fact be even worse.

Stay tuned for our budget coverage on Wednesday.

 

[Loachman]

Doug Ford Campaign Ad #1 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jt4ZE4kw3iw

 

[Remius]

The Wynne government must really be getting desperate.  Free daycare now if they are re elected.  Nice to be bribed with our own money...