Ontario Election: New riding and choices.

[Altair]

Agreed: we cannot fix this: http://www.debtclock.ca/provincial-debtclocks/ontario/ontario-s-debt/

There I disagree.

Look east.

The Quebec Liberals simply slowed the growth of expenditures and waited for the economy to grow enough to catch up. It took what, 3 years to balance it?

They burnt a lot of political capital to do it, but they did it.

The sad fact is that Ontario isn't at the level of debt where it hurts enough to do something to do about it. Quebec was over 50 percent before a government got serious about it. Ontario is at "only" at 37.

 

[Cloud Cover]

Hmmm, thats interesting. But... Ontario is at 80 percent risk of defaulting on its debt within 15-20 years (around the time I retire). The scale of the existing debt is the issue especially as it rises with GDP- it should be going down, not up.

If Ontario had done what Quebec was doing 5-6 years ago (and Quebec apparently had a plan and no choice), then it might have been possible.  To knock that down, we would need to cut back spending by about 15++ billion per year (deficit+debt servicing).  It does not seem to be a possible for political reasons to increase revenue and hold back spending in this province, especially when what is needed is a severe cut in spending ...

 

[Altair]

Hmmm, thats interesting. But... Ontario is at 80 percent risk of defaulting on its debt within 15-20 years (around the time I retire). The scale of the existing debt is the issue especially as it rises with GDP- it should be going down, not up.

If Ontario had done what Quebec was doing 5-6 years ago (and Quebec apparently had a plan and no choice), then it might have been possible.  To knock that down, we would need to cut back spending by about 15++ billion per year (deficit+debt servicing).  It does not seem to be a possible for political reasons to increase revenue and hold back spending in this province, especially when what is needed is a severe cut in spending ...

The Ontario economy is growing, to date, so there actually need to be no "cuts" made. Simply slow the growth of expenditures to below the rate of economic growth and the revenue will eventually catch up with the expenditures.  It's a far less cruel way want to simply hack and slash their way through the budget, and in a few years(assuming the global economy doesn't nosedive) budget balance would be achieved.

But, no party in Ontario right now is proposing anything close to that, the NDP and Liberals are proposing more deficits and the PCs are proposing getting rid of the carbon tax and somehow finding 10 billion dollars of efficiencies in the budget.(Although I don't believe Ford has a platform out yet, does he?)

All that says to me is that Ontario has yet to feel the pain Quebec was starting to feel when their debt to GDP reached 54 percent. When they do (and paying 20 -25 billion in interest or so) they will take the logical steps to start fixing their finances.

Ontario is Quebec in the early 2000s, thinking they can borrow their way into prosperity.

 

[Altair]

http://nationalpost.com/news/politics/doug-ford-accused-of-buying-memberships-to-help-preferred-candidate-win-tory-nomination

Ontario Progressive Conservative leader Doug Ford paid for memberships for new Tories —contrary to party rules — and bused them in to help his preferred candidate win the PC nomination in the riding where he lives, say a former top Conservative official and a party member present at the 2016 vote.

The losing contender for the Etobicoke Centre nomination, lawyer Pina Martino, filed a complaint, which included testimony from members recruited by Ford, said the former official, who spoke on condition of anonymity. But the party decided to allow Kinga Surma to remain as the candidate, the source said.

Meanwhile, the Ontario Liberal Party announced Wednesday evening it would release a recording of Ford and Surma Thursday morning which it said would implicate Ford “directly” in a nomination controversy.

Perfect timing for a controversy. Suddenly tied in the polls, now this coming out.

Two weeks to go, but I'm going to go out on a limb and say the OPC might have found a way to defeat themselves once again.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Vote PC if anything to get rid of the carbon tax.

 

[Remius]

https://globalnews.ca/news/4225759/ontario-election-decline-to-vote/

Another option...

 

[Journeyman]

https://globalnews.ca/news/4225759/ontario-election-decline-to-vote/

A useful news story.... but:

a.  like many 'protest gestures,' it's utility is generally limited to letting the person protesting tell themselves, "well, I sure showed them!"  A declined ballot just says 'person is unhappy' -- is the voter upset with the local candidates? Provincial leadership? Riding boundaries? A particular policy?  No one knows, so nothing is correctable based on this type of protest; it's a futile gesture.

b.  you forfeit your vote, you forfeit your right to bitch about whatever government you eventually get.

:2c:

 

[Remius]

A useful news story.... but:

a.  like many 'protest gestures,' it's utility is generally limited to letting the person protesting tell themselves, "well, I sure showed them!"  A declined ballot just says 'person is unhappy' -- is the voter upset with the local candidates? Provincial leadership? Riding boundaries? A particular policy?  No one knows, so nothing is correctable based on this type of protest; it's a futile gesture.

b.  you forfeit your vote, you forfeit your right to ***** about whatever government you eventually get.

:2c:

a.  You could say that about any type of vote.  No one will know why you voted one way or another.  Did you vote for something or against?  Or was it for one policy or another or against it?

b.  You forfeit absolutely no rights whatsoever.  You pay taxes, you live in the province.  You can complain all you want regardless of whether you voted, stayed home or showed up and spoiled your ballot or indicated a declined vote (which is a valid option).  Welcome to a free society.  All you do is not put your support behind anyone.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

http://nationalpost.com/news/politics/doug-ford-accused-of-buying-memberships-to-help-preferred-candidate-win-tory-nominationPerfect timing for a controversy. Suddenly tied in the polls, now this coming out.

Two weeks to go, but I'm going to go out on a limb and say the OPC might have found a way to defeat themselves once again.

It strikes me that most of the problems associated with various Canadian elections in recent years have been caused by the manner in which most parties now select leaders. It used to be that either caucus voted, or there was a delegated vote. This direct election of a  leader by anyone with a party membership seems to be the source of a lot of abuse, corruption and outright fraud.

 

[Remius]

It strikes me that most of the problems associated with various Canadian elections in recent years have been caused by the manner in which most parties now select leaders. It used to be that either caucus voted, or there was a delegated vote. This direct election of a  leader by anyone with a party membership seems to be the source of a lot of abuse, corruption and outright fraud.

Not to mention that some groups can buy memberships to try and affect the outcome.  The Red Star Hippy Whale Protectors Corps don't like mr. X so they buy a  membership to ensure he might not get the leadership.  They have no intention of voting for the party at all.  or they try to ensure that the most unelectable guy/girl gets in.

 

[Cloud Cover]

If I recall, giving each OPC party member a right to vote in the election of leader was a pre-cursor step to (the now abandoned) desire of  theoretically adopting a policy of direct democracy for major policy issues.  Obviously, the theory needs work ....

A group named None of the Above (nota.ca) has claimed the direct democracy ground, but are only running in a few dozen ridings and have somehow managed to come off as both populist and fringe. Since there is a Green party in Ontario, I would colour these folks as very dark blue   

 

[Remius]

http://nationalpost.com/news/politics/doug-ford-accused-of-buying-memberships-to-help-preferred-candidate-win-tory-nominationPerfect timing for a controversy. Suddenly tied in the polls, now this coming out.

Two weeks to go, but I'm going to go out on a limb and say the OPC might have found a way to defeat themselves once again.

It is becoming a big steaming pile.

This is turning into a bad week for the PCs.

 

[Altair]

It is becoming a big steaming pile.

This is turning into a bad week for the PCs.

And its not over yet,  debates on Sunday.

Wonder what the topic of conversation is going to be.

 

[PuckChaser]

Considering the full court press the media is giving to tar Doug Ford with a bad light, I can understand why he's slipping. He turfs a radical right candidate that made comments not proper of a prospective MPP, but the NDP gets a free ride on a radical left candidate for a similar issue. Not to mention the NDP platform to kill the Pickering Nuclear Plant (clean energy) and fire 4500 people gets barely a whisper.

 

[Cloud Cover]

I remember when the NDP poured billions into that plant. What is the radical NDP issue that you speak of (I've lost track of all the shocking misbehavior )

 

[Cloud Cover]

Disregard. I found it (insert vomit emoji).

 

[larry Strong]

What is the radical NDP issue that you speak of (I've lost track of all the shocking misbehavior )

Which one.........

https://www.ontariopc.ca/meet_the_real_ndp

And that's not counting the dude that was involved with oiled up female wrestling....and since has scrubbed his FB account and stated he must have a doppelganger as he did no such thing.......



Cheers
Larry

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Considering the lies, half truths and social engineering failures of the McGuinty and Wynne grits, I find it laughable that they decided to follow the Clinton/ Obama modus operendi of digging up dirt on opponents instead of providing a platform people can trust. It appears that Matthews is the attack dog on this one and not Wynne, possibly means she is sinking fast in her riding and has to get noticed.

The polls are a joke and the fact CBC and other MSM are supporting Horvath shows the worry they have about Ford winning. Closing a clean, affordable, efficient nuclear power plant and tossing 4500 people out of work. Sanctuary province? Really? What kind of moron would support that? I have yet to see anything in her platform that's not going to rape the taxpayer of more of their hard earned wages. The NDP platform is far and away a much worse one than Wynnes, in every aspect. Most of Wynne's ideas were stolen and softened from the NDP. Which is why the NDP carried Wynne's water for the last eight years. Think they won't support each other again?

The only poll that matters and tells the real story is on election day. Anything else is just expensive guessing and trying to justify the results of that guessing is equally futile.

And that's where I see things right now. Still got two weeks.

 

[FJAG]

Sat in on a teleconference town hall meeting with my incumbent PC MPP/candidate. Everything was going well until one of the questioners started with "I'm a Christian and don't like all this sex education . . ."  :facepalm:

Why does fiscal conservatism have to come with religious strings attached?

[cheers]

 

[Altair]

Considering the lies, half truths and social engineering failures of the McGuinty and Wynne grits, I find it laughable that they decided to follow the Clinton/ Obama modus operendi of digging up dirt on opponents instead of providing a platform people can trust. It appears that Matthews is the attack dog on this one and not Wynne, possibly means she is sinking fast in her riding and has to get noticed.

The polls are a joke and the fact CBC and other MSM are supporting Horvath shows the worry they have about Ford winning. Closing a clean, affordable, efficient nuclear power plant and tossing 4500 people out of work. Sanctuary province? Really? What kind of moron would support that? I have yet to see anything in her platform that's not going to rape the taxpayer of more of their hard earned wages. The NDP platform is far and away a much worse one than Wynnes, in every aspect. Most of Wynne's ideas were stolen and softened from the NDP. Which is why the NDP carried Wynne's water for the last eight years. Think they won't support each other again?

The only poll that matters and tells the real story is on election day. Anything else is just expensive guessing and trying to justify the results of that guessing is equally futile.

And that's where I see things right now. Still got two weeks.

the liberal play here is obvious.

They can't win,  but if the NDP does,  it will likely be a minority.  If they sink the PCs enough,  they get a minority. Either way,  they hold the balance of power.

As for the polls,  give me a break.  Everyone was touting them when the PCs had a huge lead. Now that they are tied its BS?