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New Ontario Government 2018

I was listening to a talk radio station the other day when Scott Gilmore was talking about even more drastic cuts then this.....how about cutting out every provincial Govt?
On my phone so if someone would paste the Macleans link I'd appreciate it.
 
Bluebulldog said:
Is Ford taking issue with Toronto in particular? Of course. Is it "revenge"? Possibly.....or quite possibly he's doing something about a government he previously served on, and has esoteric knowledge of, and was powerless to do anything about it when he served.

Toronto voters have an "esoteric knowledge of" Doug as a one-term councillor.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8P183mGLvkI

He had the third worst attendance record on council. Behind one who was dying of cancer. The other had brain surgery.

As the mayor's older brother, Doug referred to himself as "co-mayor" of Toronto.

Until council stripped the "co-mayor" of his power and transferred that power, and staff, to Deputy Mayor Norm Kelly.

When Doug ran for mayor, he lost to John Tory.

Now he is at Queen's Park, he can finally take care of Toronto.









 
Jarnhamar said:
Take care of Toronto and the rest of Ontario, thankfully.

He took care of Toronto.

As for the rest of Ontario's 444 municipalities,

QUOTE

Global News

August 20, 2018

No plans to cut other local councils in Ontario, Ford tells municipal leaders

In a keynote address to delegates at the annual conference of the Association of Municipalities Ontario (AMO), Ford said he “occasionally” gets asked whether the new government at Queen’s Park will do to other local governments – like Ottawa – what it did to Toronto.
https://globalnews.ca/news/4397011/doug-ford-amo/

END QUOTE
 
mariomike said:
Unfortunately, according to the 2000 report from the Toronto city solicitor, the Canadian constitution gives the Province of Ontario the right to opt out of any  federal amendment that takes away from its provincial legislative power over Toronto.

Meaning, Ontario would have to agree to allow the secession of Toronto from the province.

In 2000, Toronto city council proposed for Toronto secession to be made a ballot issue — only to have the proposal swiftly slapped down by Ontario’s then-Progressive Conservative government of Mike Harris.

If the GTA were allowed to secede from Ontario, its estimated $304 billion GDP would make it Canada's fourth-wealthiest province. Just behind Alberta.

It would only be slightly larger geographically than the Province of P.E.I..

Jonathan Malloy, a Carleton political science professor, called the chance of Ontario allowing Toronto to secede, "pretty much impossible."

National Post 3 Aug., 2018

This is much like reading the articles supporting California seceding from the United States. True, they have a multi-billion dollar economy, but only because it is connected to the greater United States. California imports electricity, since it does not generate its own, and even their water supply is somewhat dependent on an aqueduct and irrigation system connected to other parts of the US.

Toronto is much the same. Unlike Singapore or Hong Kong (a current and former modern city-state) or even Ancient Athens, Toronto has no means of existing independently from the rest of the province or nation. Being a "city-state" will be largely fictitious, and I would imagine that if Toronto councillors were allowed free reign, you would see a lot of people and business departing for Ontario proper, other provinces or the United States.

The issue of connectivity is highly important, but treating Toronto, the GTA and Golden Horseshoe as the "centre" and the remainder of the province as essentially a hinterland to be exploited for taxes and resources is not a model for success either (as the Liberals demonstrated since 2002).
 
Thucydides said:
Toronto has no means of existing independently from the rest of the province or nation.

There was never a proposal to secede from Canada. Only from Ontario.

This should read, "secession from Ontario",

mariomike said:
In 2000, Toronto city council proposed for Toronto secession to be made a ballot issue — only to have the proposal swiftly slapped down by Ontario’s then-Progressive Conservative government of Mike Harris.



 
Another court case lost for Doug Ford.

First Tesla now this.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/judge-ruling-city-council-bill-election-1.4816664

I wonder what happens next for Toronto city council...

 
Remius said:
Another court case lost for Doug Ford.

First Tesla now this.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/judge-ruling-city-council-bill-election-1.4816664

I wonder what happens next for Toronto city council...

And Justice Belobaba's ruling for those interested http://www.ontariocourts.ca/decisions/scj/2018ONSC5151.pdf
 
Remius said:
Another court case lost for Doug Ford.

First Tesla now this.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/judge-ruling-city-council-bill-election-1.4816664

I wonder what happens next for Toronto city council...

Give themselves a raise probably.
 
Remius said:
Ha!  probably...or a golden parachute.

Maybe you're right abour them needing a parachute  ;D



Premier Ford Overrules Judge with Notwithstanding Clause, Toronto City Council Cuts Move On
https://thenectarine.ca/politics/premier-doug-ford-to-use-notwithstanding-clause-and-appeal-court-decision/
 
Premier Doug Ford to use notwithstanding clause to cut size of Toronto city council

Article here.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/judge-ruling-city-council-bill-election-1.4816664

Personally, I thought that the decision by Judge Belobaba is a bit of a stretch. The heart of his decision is here:

[17] Second, a federal or provincial legislature is sovereign and cannot bind itself. The provincial legislature can over-rule or contradict a previously enacted law. A subsequent
enactment that is inconsistent with an earlier enactment is deemed to impliedly repeal the
earlier enactment to the extent of the inconsistency.6 Thus, the argument that the City of
Toronto Act7 somehow imposed an immutable obligation to consult cannot succeed. The Province was entitled to enact Bill 5 and ignore completely the promise to consult that was set out in the previous law.


[18] Third, speaking broadly and again absent a constitutional issue, the provincial
legislature has no obligation to consult and no obligation of procedural fairness.

8 The doctrine of legitimate expectations, an aspect of procedural fairness, does not apply to
legislative enactments.9

[19] At first glance, Bill 5 although controversial in content appears to fall squarely
within the province’s legislative competence. Upon closer examination of the
surrounding circumstances, however, one discovers at least two constitutional
deficiencies that cannot be justified in a free and democratic society.
The first relates to
the timing of the law and its impact on candidates; the second to its content and its impact
on voters.

[20] As I explain in more detail below, the Impugned Provisions breach s. 2(b) of the
Charter in two ways: (i) because the Bill was enacted in the middle of an ongoing
election campaign, it breached the municipal candidate’s freedom of expression and (ii)
because Bill 5 almost doubled the population size of City wards from an average of
61,000 to an average of 111,000, it breached the municipal voter’s right to cast a vote that
can result in effective representation.

Essentially he confirmed the provincial government's broad unfettered authority to make the law that it did but then points to two so-called constitutional breaches. The second, the one about the size of the constituencies is entirely arbitrary on his part and glosses over the simple fact that these constituencies already exist as Federal ridings and provide entirely adequate representation. Regardless of any Toronto commissioned review, it is the role of the legislature to determine if representation is adequate. The first, respecting the existing candidates freedom of expression is, IMHO, also a made-up ground. The change of boundaries in mid-election did not interfere with the candidates freedom of expression, merely modified the audience within which they were free to express themselves. This might very well have been unfair and difficult but provinces can be that way and still not create a breach of any "constitutional right".

IMHO this judgment reads like a case of "situating the estimate" to get the desired result. An expedited appeal would be the way to go. I think re-passing the legislation with a "notwithstanding clause" is certainly doable but sends a bad message. The clause should be used on "line in the sand" issues. Quite frankly this doesn't strike me as such a significant piece of legislation that the government should go to the wall on it. It does make a statement though which will be appreciated by many of the Party's base.

:cheers:
 
I don't think Judge Belobaba thought of the far-reaching repercussions of his decision. He's basically drawn a line in the sand saying that its against the Charter Rights of individuals if they're in riding over 66,000 people and only have 1 MP/MPP. There's only 1 Ontario riding Federally that is below that threshold (Kenora) and 10 more for the remainder of the provinces (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_of_Canadian_federal_ridings). It's also specious reasoning to state that it's "the middle of a campaign" when notice was given 90 days out from the municipal election and the candidate list isn't even finalized until 14 Sep 18.

I don't see the decision standing on appeal, but we won't need that thanks to Notwithstanding. A primer on that clause is here: https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/what-is-the-notwithstanding-clause-1.4087536
 
The only point in that ruling that I would concede would be the one about changing things in the middle of an election. Better to have said "this will be the last 47 member council, so prepare yourselves".
 
Resistance is futile.

QUOTE

Report prepared by the City Solicitor, City of Toronto
June, 2000 (updated October 2001)

Secession from the Province of Ontario

• Subsection 42(1)(f) of the Constitution Act provides that amendments to the Constitution of Canada to establish a new province are to be made in accordance with the general amending procedure set out in section 38. This procedure requires resolutions of the Senate, the House of Commons and at least two thirds of the provinces having at least 50% of the population of all the provinces.
• Subsection 38(2) provides that where a constitutional amendment is made under 38(1) that derogates from the legislative powers, the proprietary rights or any other rights or privileges of the legislature or government of a province, the resolutions referred to in the previous bullet must be supported by a majority of the members of each of the Senate, the House of Commons and the Legislative Assemblies required under subsection (1). In other words, a majority of all members of these bodies must support the amendment, not just the majority of those present and voting.
• Subsection 38(3) provides that when the majority of the members of a Legislative Assembly rejects a resolution for a constitutional amendment that would derogate from the powers, rights or privileges of that Assembly, the government of that province can opt out.
Consequently, an amendment to the Constitution Act to create Toronto as a new province would require support from the Province of Ontario.


END QUOTE

Note: In 2000, Toronto city council proposed for Toronto secession from Ontario to be made a ballot issue — only to have the proposal swiftly slapped down by Ontario’s then-Progressive Conservative government of Mike Harris.
 
I’m sure the rest of Ontario would be happy to build a wall. Toronto is not representative of Ontario, and Queens Park, most of the regulating bodies, the OHRC included, would be better located someplace real and staffed with  people of common sense. As FJAG states above, as well as many constitutional experts, not just lawyers but political scientists as well, todays court decision was a stretch and likely an incorrect decision.
That being said, pulling a stunt like Bill 5 at the material  time it was done, was a now or never decision, like so many other necessary decisions that will be forth coming because we are out of Time. . There has been so much damage done to the fabric of this province in the past 20 years, almost all of it stems from Toronto based interests. Only sustained use of  S33 will un#uck it. And if Toronto special interests whines and complains and throws it toys away, cut off the highways, slow down the extra food, need gas? Sorry that trucks not coming today....go to the courts and Ford will use section 33. Hopefully the gig is up....
#hadenoughofToronto
 
whiskey601 said:
I’m sure the rest of Ontario would be happy to build a wall. Toronto is not representative of Ontario, and Queens Park, most of the regulating bodies, the OHRC included, would be better located someplace real and staffed with  people of common sense. As FJAG states above, as well as many constitutional experts, not just lawyers but political scientists as well, todays court decision was a stretch and likely an incorrect decision.
That being said, pulling a stunt like Bill 5 at the material  time it was done, was a now or never decision, like so many other necessary decisions that will be forth coming because we are out of Time. . There has been so much damage done to the fabric of this province in the past 20 years, almost all of it stems from Toronto based interests. Only sustained use of  S33 will un#uck it. And if Toronto special interests whines and complains and throws it toys away, cut off the highways, slow down the extra food, need gas? Sorry that trucks not coming today....go to the courts and Ford will use section 33. Hopefully the gig is up....
#hadenoughofToronto

That seems a little extreme doesn't it?  The courts find something unconstitutional so you propose blanket application of the Notwithstanding Clause as a response, and if people complain you blockade them and cut off their food and fuel supplies?

I'm actually not convinced that Bill 5 is totally a bad thing but the timing was poor.  If the Conservatives are so convinced that the change MUST take place now rather than after the next election could they not simply legislate a change to the election date to give more time for candidates to adjust?  As for the representation part of the Judge's ruling I tend to agree with those that see that as a weak argument since those are already existing electoral districts.

But why does every action and reaction these days have to be so extreme?  Will the world end if the reduction in the council doesn't take effect until the next election?  Will having council members having to serve larger wards make Toronto government screech to a halt?  Of course not on both counts.  But to hear many people talk on these issues and you'd assume the sky was falling and the end days are here.
 
ModlrMike said:
The only point in that ruling that I would concede would be the one about changing things in the middle of an election. Better to have said "this will be the last 47 member council, so prepare yourselves".

Yeah, I would agree on that point.  I have no problem with trimming the fat. But to do it once the campaign has started isn't very good.

Also, maybe he should have campaigned on that. 
 
PuckChaser said:
I don't see the decision standing on appeal, but we won't need that thanks to Notwithstanding. A primer on that clause is here: https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/what-is-the-notwithstanding-clause-1.4087536

From what I can tell the Gov't is going to appeal the decision anyways.  If it falls to appeal then Section 33 will not need be applied continuously.  The issue her isn't whether the Ontario is within its rights, its that Ford is using a sledgehammer to put in a finishing nail.  Standby for more uses of the notwithstanding clause against everyone and all.  Primacy of government over the courts is going to look real nasty in Ontario for a while yet.
 
Personally, I don't have a problem with primacy of the elected officials over the courts. That's what democracy is all about.

Contrary to some of the (in my mind illiterate) statements of so called experts found in the press, there is NO requirement whatsoever to be in an "exceptional" circumstance in order to call upon section 33 of the Constitution. it's purpose is solely to ensure that the primacy of the legislature/Parliament over the courts, and as result the primacy of the electorate, remains the supreme decision making body in the nation/provinces.

 
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