Naval Officers Once Again to Wear the Executive Curl

[Pusser]

Hmm...

Based on these numbers, it would seem that 57.1% of naval personnel will appear as if they've never been to sea.  Methinks there is a tragic flaw here.  This will only be compounded by the fact that there are a LOT of legitimate sea days that are not recorded anywhere.  As the bunfights begin, one has to wonder that this is going to improve morale how?

 

[Pat in Halifax]

Holy s*** people - Why the doom and gloom!!!? No system is perfect and:
No, I have no idea who was audited
No, I have no idea when NAVRES will be done but I thought we were total Force (?) - don't segregate YOURSELF!

I tried to do my own and it was a nightmare so I stopped but I believe there is a 'team' somewhere doing their VERY best. If you are flustered with discussing it....don't discuss it!!

This is why I guess, emails like the one I enclosed aren't circulated to the general populace - I will keep that in mind next time I get the urge to pass something on through this informal network.

 

[Stoker]

Hey Pat thanks for the info, its nice to know someone is doing something. 

 

[MSEng314]

I don't think it's fair to say that 57% of the navy has never been to sea, it just means that they have less than one year of sea time. Myself and most of my colleagues that have been in less than a year only have about 1 month of sea time at this point.

 

[Michael OLeary]

Out of curiosity, has that statistic been broken down between hard sea trades and the "purple trades" that wear Navy DEU but for whom sea-going billets are limited opportunities even if desired?  For example, how many MPs chose to wear black for its slimming effect but will likely never have a ship-board posting?

 

[Lex Parsimoniae]

Revised Qualifying Sea-Days

Level 1 - Gun Metal 365 days (1 year) (no change);
Level 2 - Copper 730 days ( 2 years);
Level 3 - Silver 1095 days (3 years), and
Level 4 - Gold 1460 days (4 years).

I like it.

 

[MSEng314]

Or what about non-navy personnel serving on board HMC ships, like firefighters, which is always an air force trade, yet all ships have a department of them on board. As well most supply departments contain a good variety of air force and army personnel.

 

[KrazyHamburglar]

Unless they go by the ship's log and compile everybody that were on board on each small and big trips, I don't see how they can accurately find those numbers... I sure hope it's not by the MPRR

 

[Pat in Halifax]

MSEng:
Not sure what you are asking. Read the original posting of the email again- it says "To date, sea-day counts have been completed for 3,028 MARCOM personnel with the following results:"
Last I looked, all those people fall under the MARCOM umbrella if employed onboard or in support of sea going units. I actually know a few supply people (and they are probably on this board) who likely have more sea days than I do and I roughly calculated my own between 3 and 4 years.
Someone here at the School came up with a (very) rough calculation that will NOT apply to all. Essentially, for every 6 years SDA, 1 year of sea days.

 

[Lex Parsimoniae]

Unless they go by the ship's log and compile everybody that were on board on each small and big trips, I don't see how they can accurately find those numbers... I sure hope it's not by the MPRR

I don't disagree with you but it's not like we're firing a rocket to the moon and it needs to be 100% accurate down to each time somebody took the blue boat between FDU(P) and Esquimalt.  Like hand grenades, close enough is probably good enough for past service and then create a system to track future sea time days.  No doubt there will also be an appeal process for those who feel that some sea time was missed.  The exec curl was well handled and I have faith that the SSI will be similarly successful.

PS:  The ship's log won't tell you who was onboard.

 

[KrazyHamburglar]

The ship's log won't tell you who was onboard.

Of course it won't... but it's the only accurate way (depending of the OOW really) to determine for how much time a ship was at sea... Why put a 8 hour minimum if they are going to ballpark it? They could have put one day for each day the ship was at sea or for each time, on a daily basis, that the ship was off the wall...
Ss for who was really on it, I guess if you want some accuracy you need to link it to posting messages, but even then, you'll miss some.

Overall I think its a positive thing to recognize sea time. Anyway, as a CSE officer, I'll be lucky it I ever get the gun metal one... the only thing I'm most likely to sail is an desk in Ottawa or at FMF...

 

[C-Aitchison]

Just a quick question.

Do Naval Cadets also wear the Curl, or is it only Acting Sub Lieutenant and up?

 

[Lex Parsimoniae]

Just a quick question.

Do Naval Cadets also wear the Curl, or is it only Acting Sub Lieutenant and up?

Acting Sub-Lieutenant and up.  Not sure whether this applies to mess kit or not.

 

[KrazyHamburglar]

A NCdt with a mess kit, that would be money thrown out the window...

 

[Lex Parsimoniae]

Why put a 8 hour minimum if they are going to ballpark it?

Why would you assume that they're going to ballpark it?  Collecting the 'days at sea' per ship is the easy part (and has been reported elsewhere on navy.ca as having been done already).

Unless they go by the ship's log and compile everybody that were on board on each small and big trips, I don't see how they can accurately find those numbers... I sure hope it's not by the MPRR

Sorry - I misread this to think that you were talking about how to "compile everybody that were on board " and didn't realize that you meant number of hours at sea.  Why would they look at people's MPRR to figure out the sailing history of ships?

 

[Pat in Halifax]

Of course it won't... but it's the only accurate way (depending of the OOW really) to determine for how much time a ship was at sea... Why put a 8 hour minimum if they are going to ballpark it? They could have put one day for each day the ship was at sea or for each time, on a daily basis, that the ship was off the wall...
As for who was really on it, I guess if you want some accuracy you need to link it to posting messages, but even then, you'll miss some.

Hey, I finally figured out how to do 'quotes'!! (One extra beer this eve for me!)
Anyway, ship's sea days are indeed tracked (NavO) as is who is actually on the ship for that/those day/days(Cox'n). Where this info goes, I do not know but suspect where ever it is, that is where the info for the SSI comes from.
Everytime a ship sails from Halifax or Esquimalt, the Cox'n's Office creates a nominal role and the NOK box goes ashore. If you are repatted mid deployment, this gets recorded. If you stay ashore in St John's for 4 days between port visits because you were REALLY tired during a FISHPAT, this gets recorded. (trust me on this one!!!!)
Bottom line, the info is out there and has been collected since before World War II. It would seem that we now have a use for it!

Also, as NCdt is technically not a commissioned rank (don't start with the MS/MCpl thing again!), I am pretty sure there would be no curl.
_____________________________________
By the way, anyone going to downtown Halifax tomorrow, today was an absolute mad house and for God's sake, if you have little kids, bring water. When I was out for my nooner walk, I bought 2 little boys a bottle of water each because mom and dad were whining and arguing about it being $3!

Best view? Get to know someone in PSU and get on a RHIB! - Seriously though, the walk from inside dkyd, through the south gate (Ark Royal and Wasp are at NB) at SCO all the way along the Boardwalk to beyond Pier 21. (Did I say bring water?) ATH is beside Sackville and TOR is with the Brazilian ship down by the NSPC building near Pier 21. There is also a new monument down there from the ACPOA. USN and RN vessels around Piers 21, 22, 23 as well....Enjoy!

 

[Pusser]

Yes, we know a ship's sea days.  That's not the problem.  The problem is that we have no way of knowing who was actually on board at the time.  The Coxswain keeps an accurate record of who is on board at the moment, but the main use for this information is so they know who to inform if the ship sinks.  No permanent record of this information is kept.  The only permanent records we keep that are relevant and remotely accurate are the MPRR (indicates postings and attach postings) and pay records (indicates receipt of Sea Duty Allowance).  Unfortunately, these too are flawed in that attach posting are not necessarily recorded accurately and receipt of SDA does not necessarily mean you were at sea at the time.  All things considered, I still argue that SDA is the simplest and most accurate recording method we have for past sea service.  The future is another story.  We can develop a more accurate method for the future.

The new rules for the executive curl state that Naval Cadets don't get one.  However, it was authorized for Naval Cadets' mess kits several years ago.  Whether, this will be reconciled remains to be seen, but I suspect it's not a huge issue considering that very few Naval Cadets actually have mess kit.

 

[wayjosh]

The new rules for the executive curl state that Naval Cadets don't get one.  However, it was authorized for Naval Cadets' mess kits several years ago.  Whether, this will be reconciled remains to be seen, but I suspect it's not a huge issue considering that very few Naval Cadets actually have mess kit.

For NCDTs who have mess kit they will be grandfathered, however, like sub-Lts, for any new mess kit they will be required to it in the new rank structure.

For those of you who have asked questions about the SSI, you can expect to see a CANFORGEN in the very near future. It will provide more detail on how and when sea-day counts will be conducted.

I was quite surprised to see internal email posted to this forum. Although the emails were not sent out PB,  I don’t think the author would have expected them to be copied and pasted on an external forum.

What are DND’s regulations wrt posting this type of information.

 

[Pat in Halifax]

The email was sent out and included a caveat for 'widest distribution'. As there was no security issue, I saw no problem. There are likely alot of 'Navy' people who would not have rec'd this other than through here. I know of a MS in Borden who knew nothing about the MARGEN re "Sailors" wearing NCDs during the Centennial year. I know, he should have found it on his own but "Navy" ways do not seem to be too popular outside of Halifax and Esquimalt.
Besides, what is the secret?? Why would you NOT want to broadcast the idea being considered?

 

[quadrapiper]

The email was sent out and included a caveat for 'widest distribution'. As there was no security issue, I saw no problem. There are likely alot of 'Navy' people who would not have rec'd this other than through here. I know of a MS in Borden who knew nothing about the MARGEN re "Sailors" wearing NCDs during the Centennial year.

Which MARGEN is that?

You can add all but a very few Sea CIC to the list of naval-looking people unlikely to get "perfect transmission" for policy changes, ___GENs, etc.