Naval Officers Once Again to Wear the Executive Curl

[Grinton]

I apologise if this has been answered somewhere else already but the search function came up lacking.  I know the direction for the curl on our shoulders.  But what is the historical significance of the direction of the curl?  Seems like it could just be logic, but since when has the name done something logical without some tradition backing it?

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

While I have no idea what the real reason might be (if there even is one), couldn't it have something to do with the fact that most tailors and seamstresses are right handed?

 

[Pusser]

While I have no idea what the real reason might be (if there even is one), couldn't it have something to do with the fact that most tailors and seamstresses are right handed?

Except that the curls always come in pairs (except maybe on CADPAT uniforms) and there is a left and a right.  In other words, it wouldn't make any difference if the tailor was left or right handed because he would have to make one of each anyway.

The part of the curl that is on top and overlapping the other part is the "bow" and always points forward.  An officer who is wearing his curls on the wrong side is said to be "running astern."  This usually only happens when wearing shoulder boards.  One hopes that the tailor gets it right when putting them on the tunic!

 

[Neill McKay]

One hopes that the tailor gets it right when putting them on the tunic!

It happens that mine didn't the first time...  Rather costly mistake.

 

[Pusser]

If the tailor gets it wrong, then you shouldn't have to pay for it, unless you gave them the wrong instructions. 

 

[Neill McKay]

If the tailor gets it wrong, then you shouldn't have to pay for it, unless you gave them the wrong instructions.

I didn't.  I meant that it was a costly mistake on the part of the tailor!

I gave them pre-fab lace to sew on (labour cost ca. $50) and they got it backwards.  "Are you sure?", they asked?  "Yes, it should be like the lace on the mess jacket in your front window", said I.  "Come back tomorrow", said the tailor.

The next day I went in to discover that the tailor hadn't been able to remove the lace without destroying it, so they put new lace on by hand, the labour and materials cost for which is well over $100 (and the tailor absorbed the difference).  My luckiest day in a while, especially since the hand-sewn lace on my tunic is a lot nicer than the pre-fab was.

I think this makes up for the cost overrun on my white tunic and my mess kit having been two months late.

 

[Snakedoc]

Except that the curls always come in pairs (except maybe on CADPAT uniforms) and there is a left and a right. 

Out of curiousity, has any direction been given on which one (left or right) to wear on CADPAT uniforms?

 

[dapaterson]

Out of curiousity, has any direction been given on which one (left or right) to wear on CADPAT uniforms?

Left for MARPAC and right for MARLANT? 

 

[CombatDoc]

Except that the curls always come in pairs (except maybe on CADPAT uniforms) and there is a left and a right.  In other words, it wouldn't make any difference if the tailor was left or right handed because he would have to make one of each anyway.

The part of the curl that is on top and overlapping the other part is the "bow" and always points forward.  An officer who is wearing his curls on the wrong side is said to be "running astern."  This usually only happens when wearing shoulder boards.  One hopes that the tailor gets it right when putting them on the tunic!

Hmmm.  According to the dress regs posted here in MARPAC: "The underside of the curl must face forward" Canforgen 091-10, CMS 031-10.  I looked online, and all of the google photos that I found of CF or RN Officers showed the underside of the curl facing forward, not the "bow" forward.  Is it possible that both coasts have different dress regulations for the executive curl?  I couldn't find any further specific direction online.

 

[CombatDoc]

Out of curiousity, has any direction been given on which one (left or right) to wear on CADPAT uniforms?

According to the dress regs, Admiralty Curl insignia are not authorized for wear with CADPAT.  Instead, the regs state that we should wear black thread rings over olive drab (or whatever they are calling it) background.  The AC rank that cpgear sells and that I have purchased are all right hand slipons (underside of the curl facing forward).

 

[Snakedoc]

Left for MARPAC and right for MARLANT? 

LOL  ;D

Hmmm.  According to the dress regs posted here in MARPAC: "The underside of the curl must face forward" Canforgen 091-10, CMS 031-10.  I looked online, and all of the google photos that I found of CF or RN Officers showed the underside of the curl facing forward, not the "bow" forward.  Is it possible that both coasts have different dress regulations for the executive curl?  I couldn't find any further specific direction online.

I've seen Naval Officers on both coasts and the standard is the same.  This is also detailed in the dress regs for the mess kit shoulder boards.  I think the only confusion here is just in the description, 'underside of the curl' facing forward is the same as the 'bow' facing forward or in other words the 'overside' facing back.

According to the dress regs, Admiralty Curl insignia are not authorized for wear with CADPAT.  Instead, the regs state that we should wear black thread rings over olive drab (or whatever they are calling it) background.  The AC rank that cpgear sells and that I have purchased are all right hand slipons (underside of the curl facing forward).

Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think the dress regs have been officially updated yet for the wearing of the executive curl.  However, according to the executive curl's Interim Policy Guidance document, the executive curl slip-on is authorized for wear with the temperate woodland version of the CADPAT, but not the other versions (arid etc.).  Unfortunately it doesn't detail whether it is the left or right slip-on that is to be worn on the CADPAT.

"e.  Slip-ons CADPAT Lightweight Combat Clothing.  Distinct navy slip-on identifiers are approved for wear with CADPAT Lightweight Combat Clothing (LWCC) Temperate Woodland (TW) in Canada dependent on the operational context of the unit – i.e. in non-tactical situations as deemed by the operational commander in accordance with reference D.  The current navy slip-on identifier is black thread rank insignia on Canadian Average Green.  The new navy identifier slip-on for CADPAT LWCC (TW) will be modified to incorporate the executive curl and it will be a unisex design as per the service dress/NCD slip-on.  For tactical situations, the slip-on will be the CADPAT TW standard slip-on with no navy identifier (no executive curl).  Authorization on overseas operations will be at the discretion of the Theatre Commander based on the operational situation.  All other CADPAT designs (i.e. Arid Region, Arctic) will use the appropriate CADPAT design slip-on, again with no navy identifier."

 

[Pusser]

I have an arid slip-on with curl (from CP Gear).  If I end up in the sandbox, I'll have to see how adventurous I am in deciding whether I'll try wearing it.

 

[CombatDoc]

LOL  ;D
Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think the dress regs have been officially updated yet for the wearing of the executive curl.  However, according to the executive curl's Interim Policy Guidance document, the executive curl slip-on is authorized for wear with the temperate woodland version of the CADPAT, but not the other versions (arid etc.).  Unfortunately it doesn't detail whether it is the left or right slip-on that is to be worn on the CADPAT.

"e.  Slip-ons CADPAT Lightweight Combat Clothing.  Distinct navy slip-on identifiers are approved for wear with CADPAT Lightweight Combat Clothing (LWCC) Temperate Woodland (TW) in Canada dependent on the operational context of the unit – i.e. in non-tactical situations as deemed by the operational commander in accordance with reference D.  The current navy slip-on identifier is black thread rank insignia on Canadian Average Green.  The new navy identifier slip-on for CADPAT LWCC (TW) will be modified to incorporate the executive curl and it will be a unisex design as per the service dress/NCD slip-on.  For tactical situations, the slip-on will be the CADPAT TW standard slip-on with no navy identifier (no executive curl).  Authorization on overseas operations will be at the discretion of the Theatre Commander based on the operational situation.  All other CADPAT designs (i.e. Arid Region, Arctic) will use the appropriate CADPAT design slip-on, again with no navy identifier."

Snakedoc, I think you're right, and I stand corrected.