Naval Officers Once Again to Wear the Executive Curl

[AmmoTech90]

Since we now admit to it being a navy, a nice touch would be to again call it the RCN.

If you want to live in the past, go whole hog.

Naval Service of Canada

 

[Occam]

Here it is: http://www.forces.gc.ca/site/gal/photos-eng.asp?id=232&WT.svl=potd

The Sea Service Insignia will be a metallic cloth badge (for service dress tunic) and metal pin (for service dress short-sleeved shirt and high-collared white tunic) produced in four colours (gun metal, brass, silver, and gold) each representing time spent at sea - the first level will be one year (365 days) with periodicity for higher levels to be established.  Note that the SSI was created to recognize 'time spent at sea' and not time posted to a sea-going unit.

If you look at the full-size photograph, Level 2 is awarded for 1095 sea days, Level 3 is awarded for 1460 sea days, and Level 4 is awarded for 1825 sea days.

It literally took years for the Navy to do a SDA verification not that long ago, and that was only to verify time posted to a sea-going unit.  If they have to go back and calculate actual days at sea, not counting alongside time in Halifax, Esquimalt and foreign ports....I hope they've hired additional staff!

edit:  added Esquimalt - not everyone was lucky enough to be East coast.

 

[Lex Parsimoniae]

If you look at the full-size photograph, Level 2 is awarded for 1095 sea days, Level 3 is awarded for 1460 sea days, and Level 4 is awarded for 1825 sea days.

Well spotted!

 

[FSTO]

:

You know damned well that there is no entity called "Air force" in Canadian law. The  term is in common usage is neither here nor there. There is no "Canadian Air Force" that you can add the Royal title to. That is a simple fact.

If there is no desire in Air Command to resurrect the "Air Force" then why is CFB Winnipeg called 17 Wing etc. In fact, the original bill that unified the Forces did not include Air Command. All aviation assets that flew over the water was owned by Maritime Command. AFAIK there was no amendment to the NDA to create Air Command, it just kind of evolved on its own!

 

[wayjosh]

It would seem that we will have to wait until the official CANFORGEN is out ... therefore I guess that I will have to wait to wear them.

You will not be allowed to wear them until after the official unveiling at the Pacific IFR in June.

 

[Cronicbny]

You will not be allowed to wear them until after the official unveiling at the Pacific IFR in June.

Really? I think you may see some senior personnel wearing them during our respective marches tomorrow... or not.

 

[CountDC]

If they do the SSI by "days at sea" rather than sea time as defined by posting to a sea-going unit, isn't that going to be an adminstrative nightmare?

I say scrap the whole thing ... a sailor is a sailor.

And does anyone really think that some Air Force guy is going to want to stick crap on his uniform because he was sailing on a ship fixing Sea Kings?

Yes that will be an administrative nightmare and thank god I will not be involved in it.  Been hard enough over the years to straighten out the sea time as it is let along trying to figure out if the member actually sailed during that period. Imagine - did the ship sail?  What dates?  Was this member with that ship?  Was he landed? Loaned out? Sent on course? If loaned out did that ship sail?  Way to many factors to try getting.  Going with awarded sea time would be a lot easier.

 

[CountDC]

This is the info we have received:

The Sea Service Insignia is meant to recognize the significance of service at sea by those who have and continue to serve in HMC Ships and Submarines.

The specifications of the SSI are as follows:
a. Name. The official name of the insignia will be the, Sea Service Insignia – insignes de service de mer;
b. Description.  The SSI will consist of a stand alone naval crown superimposed in the center of a fouled anchor;
c. Material.  The insignia will be produced in both metal and cloth. Metal insignia will be worn on the short sleeve shirt and cloth insignia will be worn on the tunic; 
d. Colour.  The insignia will be produced in four colours; gun metal, bronze, silver and gold. Each colour will represent a corresponding level of sea days;
e. Location.  The SSI will be worn at the following locations:
(1) Naval tunic – above the nametag;
(2) Air Force/Army tunics – 12 cm from the bottom of the left sleeve, or 1.2 cm above any existing badge or insignia positioned there;
(3) male short sleeve shirt (all environments) – centered on right pocket panel; and
(4) female short sleeve shirt (all environments) – centered on right pocket panel. Should female members have concerns with the location of the insignia, the committee included a caveat to relocate the insignia if required;

All those serving in the CF on 1 Jan 2010 will be eligible to receive the SSI as they meet the required minimum sea days. A sea day will be defined as a minimum of 8 hours at sea, at anchor or combination there of. As illustrated in the attached document, there are four(4) qualifying levels to the SSI which correspond to colour and actual days at sea. Those levels are as follow:

Level 1 - Gun Metal 365 days;
Level 2 - Copper 1095 days;
Level 3 - Silver 1460 days, and
Level 4 - Gold 1825 days.


The administration of the SSI is currently under the responsibility of DMAR PERS who have assembled a tiger team to commence the accounting processes. It is anticipated the awarding of the SSI will commence in January 2011. As you can well imagine, this will not be a simple task and will take some time to accomplish. More details and information provided as their work progresses.



 

 

[Sailorwest]

I find it interesting that they have chosen to award the SSI for 1, 3, 4, and 5 years of actual sea days. I guess that gap from 1 to 3 years isn't that significant. I agree that this will be an administrative nightmare to figure out how many days at sea people actually served.

 

[Loachman]

If there is no desire in Air Command to resurrect the "Air Force" then why is CFB Winnipeg called 17 Wing etc. In fact, the original bill that unified the Forces did not include Air Command. All aviation assets that flew over the water was owned by Maritime Command. AFAIK there was no amendment to the NDA to create Air Command, it just kind of evolved on its own!

The RCAF did not ever call its bases "Wings". They were Stations, ie RCAF Station Trenton etcetera. Many years ago, a Commander Air Command decided that "we have to have Wings again", but got it wrong. Wings are the equivalent of Army brigades, ie a grouping of units with a common operational purpose. There is indeed a Wing at CFB (formerly RCAF Station) Trenton as there are several Transport Squadrons there, but the base infrastructure does not constitute a Wing in the proper sense.

The National Defence Act does not need to be amended in order to create or modify formations. It would, however, have to be amended in order to re-create three services out of the one that we currently have. Air Command did not "evolve". It was created on purpose, to "give all airmen a common identity" - completely ignoring the fact that there were still many Army and Naval Aviators around who felt little "common identity" with their former RCAF counterparts and were somewhat resentful of being lumped in with them while simultaneously having their heritages wiped out completely. Until that time, 10 Tactical Air Group, now 1 Wing, belonged to Mobile Command, now Land Force Command, while Maritime Air Group belonged to Maritime Command - both far more natural command relationships.

Anyway, congratulations about being curly again, but I don't want any more a** f**ce influence over Tac Hel than we're already stuck with.

 

[Sailorwest]

What follows is CANFORGEN on wearing of Executive Curl and SSI. Not a complete copy of message. Contact info for queries and French portion not included.

RE: CANFORGEN 091-10 CMS 031-10 271456Z APR 10 - EXECUTIVE CURL AND SEA SERVICE INSIGNIA

UNCLAS CANFORGEN 091-10 CMS 031-10
SIC WAB
SUBJ: EXECUTIVE CURL AND SEA SERVICE INSIGNIA BILINGUAL MESSAGE/MESSAGE
BILINGUE
1.  IT IS WITH GREAT PLEASURE THAT I AM ABLE TO ANNOUNCE TWO VERY IMPORTANT INITIATIVES IN CONJUNCTION WITH THE CANADIAN NAVAL CENTENNIAL
2.  FIRST, THE GOVERNMENT OF CANADA HAS BESTOWED UPON THE NAVY THE AUTHORITY TO REINTRODUCE THE EXECUTIVE CURL BACK INTO THE NAVAL RANK INSIGNIA.  THE REINTRODUCTION OF THE EXECUTIVE CURL REFLECTS ON THE
PROUD HISTORY AND CONTRIBUTIONS THAT THE NAVY HAS MADE TO CANADA
3.DISTRIBUTION AND AUTHORITY TO WEAR THE EXECUTIVE CURL WILL COMMENCE WITH A PHASED APPROACH.  THE PACIFIC INTERNATIONAL FLEET REVIEW (IFR) PARADE OF NATIONS 11 JUN 10 WILL MARK THE FIRST OFFICIAL FUNCTION WHERE THE EXECUTIVE CURL WILL BE WORN.  AS THERE IS ONLY A LIMITED SUPPLY OF AUTHORIZED BRAID AVAILABLE FOR TUNICS ONLY
PERSONNEL PREVIOUSLY NOTIFIED VIA SEPARATE CORRESPONDENCE WILL BE AUTHORIZED TO COMMENCE THE QUOTE LACING UP UNQUOTE TUNICS FOR THIS EVENT.  FURTHER DIRECTION WILL FOLLOW FOR SUBSEQUENT PHASES OF DISTRIBUTION/IMPLEMENTATION
4.  DMRS HAS COMMENCED THE PROCUREMENT OF SERVICE DRESS SLIP-ONS AND SHOULDER BOARDS.  THESE ITEMS WILL BE
AUTHORIZED FOR WEAR ONCE INTRODUCED INTO THE SUPPLY SYSTEM.  IT IS ANTICIPATED THAT SLIP-ONS WILL BE AVAILABLE IN APS 10.  FOR OFFICERS WHO ARE IN POSSESSION OF HARDBOARDS AS PART OF MESS DRESS, THE WEARING OF THE EXECUTIVE CURL IS AUTHORIZED WITH SUMMER DRESS (HIGH COLLAR WHITES/WHITE SHORT SLEEVE SHIRT) COMMENCING 11 JUN 10
5.  THE INTRODUCTION OF THE EXECUTIVE CURL IS A FOND REMINDER OF OUR RICH CANADIAN NAVAL HISTORY AND IT SHOULD BE WORN WITH PRIDE BY ALL NAVAL OFFICERS
6.  SECONDLY, IT IS ALSO WITH GREAT PLEASURE THAT I AM ABLE TO INTRODUCE THE NEWLY CREATED SEA SERVICE INSIGNIA (SSI).  THE SSI HAS BEEN CREATED AS A MEANS TO RECOGNIZE THE SERVICE OF ALL SEA GOING PERSONNEL REGARDLESS OF ENVIRONMENT
7.  THE CANADIAN NAVAL CENTENNIAL AND IN PARTICULAR, THE ANNIVERSARY OF THE BATTLE OF THE ATLANTIC SERVE
AS AN IMPORTANT REMINDER TO ALL THAT NAVAL PERSONNEL AND ALL THOSE WHO GO TO SEA PLAY A VITAL ROLE WITHIN THE CF.
8.  SAILORS HAVE TOLD ME THAT MUCH OF THEIR TIME SPENT AT SEA HAS HISTORICALLY NOT BEEN FORMALLY RECOGNIZED.  THE SSI WAS CREATED TO RECTIFY THIS OVERSIGHT.  THE SSI IS CURRENTLY BEING DEVELOPED AND SHOULD BE READY FOR DISTRIBUTION DURING 2011.  IN THE INTERIM D MAR PERS HAS BEEN TASKED TO REVIEW THE RECORDS OF ALL CURRENTLY SERVING MEMBERS OF THE NAVY WITH A VIEW TO CREATING A SEA SERVICE DATABASE THAT WILL KEEP AN ACCURATE RECORD OF ALL DAYS SPENT AT SEA.  IT IS RECOGNIZED THAT THERE WILL BE MANY EX NAVY OR NON NAVY PERSONNEL WHO WILL QUALIFY FOR THE SSI.  A SSI WEBPAGE IS CURRENTLY BEING DEVELOPED TO GUIDE THOSE INDIVIDUALS, DETAILS TO FOLLOW IN A SUBSEQUENT MSG
9.  TO BE ELIGIBLE FOR THE SSI, YOU MUST BE CURRENTLY SERVING IN THE CF. THE SSI WILL CONSIST OF FOUR LEVELS, RECOGNIZED BY COLOUR WHICH WILL INCLUDE: GUN METAL, BRONZE, SILVER AND GOLD.  EACH LEVEL REPRESENTS A CORRESPONDING AMOUNT OF TIME SPENT AT SEA (NOT TO BE CONFUSED WITH DAYS IN RECEIPT OF SEA DUTY ALLOWANCE).  INITIAL ELIGIBILITY WILL COMMENCE WITH THE ACCUMULATION OF 365 DAYS AT SEA. SUBSEQUENT LEVELS WILL BE REACHED AT 1095 DAYS, 1460 DAYS WITH THE GOLD LEVEL ACHIEVED AT 1825 DAYS.  A SEA DAY IS DEFINED AS 8 HOURS SPENT AT
SEA.  A COMPREHENSIVE OVERVIEW OF ELIGIBILITY REQUIREMENTS, DEFINITION OF A SEA DAY AND FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS (FAQS) WILL BE FOUND AT THE SSI WEB PAGE
10.  THE CREATION OF THE SSI ESTABLISHES A FORMAL RECOGNITION OF THE SACRIFICES AND EFFORTS OF ALL THOSE CF PERSONNEL BOTH NAVY AND NON-NAVY WHO HAVE SERVED CANADA ON BOARD A HMC SHIP

 

[Dennis Ruhl]

Wings are the equivalent of Army brigades, ie a grouping of units with a common operational purpose.

Everywhere else they are equivalent to battalions.  Because our wings are led by "Group Captains" and our squadrons by "Wing Commanders" old airforce ranks don't work anymore

 

[Fishbone Jones]

This is a Navy thread. Keep it that way.

Milnet.ca Staff

 

[medicineman]

I find it interesting that they have chosen to award the SSI for 1, 3, 4, and 5 years of actual sea days. I guess that gap from 1 to 3 years isn't that significant. I agree that this will be an administrative nightmare to figure out how many days at sea people actually served.

I feel for the clerks that are going to have to sort this (add your own expletive/derogatory descriptor) out.

MM

 

[jollyjacktar]

I feel for the clerks that are going to have to sort this (add your own expletive/derogatory descriptor) out.

MM

And they should have it all worked out (or snafu'd royally) by the time I hit 55 in 6 years time.  Poor sorry buggers, I feel for them too. 

 

[Halifax Tar]

Interesting stuff... This SSI sounds like a monster of a problem...

 

[wayjosh]

Interesting stuff... This SSI sounds like a monster of a problem...

How so? Why are people so quick to try and find negatives? The intent of the SSI is to formally recognize time spent at sea and to recognize the hard work of the sailors and officers who go to sea.

 

[Snakedoc]

If you want to live in the past, go whole hog.

Naval Service of Canada

Just read this article and thought it was relevant to the previous posts.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/opinions/editorials/its-time-to-call-the-navy-a-navy-once-again/article1555492/

Globe editorial
It’s time to call the Navy a navy once again
Canadian Forces Maritime Command is hardly a stirring name


Today marks the 100th anniversary of Canada’s navy, which fought with distinction in two World Wars and the Korean War, and is now, alas, known as the Canadian Forces Maritime Command, a bulky and obscure label that communicates little of what it is and what it has done.

What better way to mark the centennial than to restore its rightful name, the Royal Canadian Navy, which it carried from 1911 to 1968, when defence minister Paul Hellyer unified the navy, army and air force under one command. (At one time, each service reported to its own cabinet minister.) The unification does not need to be undone. The navy does not need to go back to having its own command structure. Just the name will do.

The Royal Canadian Navy conjures up images of the Battle of the Atlantic, which has been described as the longest battle of the war – from September, 1939, to May, 1945. From a tiny force of just 3,000, with just 13 warships, in 1939, the navy grew to encompass 99,688 men and 6,500 women, and 471 fighting vessels. By the time the Allies defeated Nazi Germany, Canada, with a population of just 10 million people, had the world’s third-biggest navy.

When Britain stood alone in Europe against the Nazis, before the United States and the Soviet Union entered the war, Canada helped provide a lifeline to its imperilled ally by protecting supply ships across the Atlantic. The Royal Canadian Navy sank or shared in sinking 33 enemy submarines, says the Canadian Encyclopedia, and lost 24 warships (including the armed yacht Raccoon, sunk by a U-boat in the St. Lawrence River in 1942) and 2,024 people. And Canada’s own Rear-Admiral Leonard Warren Murray, the only Canadian to head an Allied theatre of operations, was commander-in-chief of what was known as the Canadian Northwest Atlantic.

Defence Minister Peter MacKay has honoured the service and sacrifice of the navy by announcing on the weekend that the executive curl, a distinctive loop on the upper stripe of naval officers’ uniforms that disappeared after unification, will make a comeback. He should take the next step and bring the name back.

No child dreams of joining a maritime command. No one ever says Canada’s glory was, or is, its Maritime Command. Maritime Command sets no spines a-tingling. But the Royal Canadian Navy, with its proud history and its still useful role in many conflicts, linking past fights for democracy to present ones, whether in peacekeeping, peacemaking or war, should once again be a name to be reckoned with.

 

[Snakedoc]

Apologies for all the article posts but I thought this quote from the CMS on the name 'Maritime Command" was also interesting in this CTV article:

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20100504/fredericton-returns-navy-100504/20100504/


"And while he pointed out that he has more important things to worry about, McFadden said he supported the idea of officially changing the navy's name from Maritime Command to the Canadian Navy.

"I think most sailors, I think most Canadians, don't really have any connection with something called Maritime Command. That's an organizational construct," McFadden said. "But certainly the Canadian Navy resonates, it resonates with our sailors. I think when I hear people talk about it, they refer to us as the Canadian Navy. I think it's a recognition of a truly national, unifying institution.""

 

[Occam]

How so? Why are people so quick to try and find negatives? The intent of the SSI is to formally recognize time spent at sea and to recognize the hard work of the sailors and officers who go to sea.

...by creating a monumental pile of work?