National military physical-fitness test fails 1,000 people: report

[pbi]

I get tired of this endless business about Res fitness. My hunch is that alot of the agony comes from older Res soldiers, who wouldn't do anything about their own fitness no matter if they were in the Res or not.  There are  Res soldiers out there who do stay fit, because they make fitness part of their personal civilian, off-duty lifestyle on their own time. They don't look to the Army to do it for them, or to pay them, or go looking for special compensation if they slip and fall while jogging, any more than a bus driver, police officer, toaster repairman or librarian does. They like being fit. Except for us lucky people in the RegF who get time and resources assigned to us to get and stay fit, almost everybody else in the world has to get fit on their own. How the hell does a volunteer firefighter stay fit? If people with demanding civilian jobs can stay fit --in fact I'll bet you'll find that the fittest civvies are often the ones with the most demanding jobs-- then a Res soldier can do it  too.  To me, it isn't about being fit just to please the Army Reserve. It's about being fit as a human being.

Cheers

 

[geo]

I am not anti-Reservist, but this is a primarily a Reg F issue. Guys and girls who are supposed to meet the minimum fitness standards are not. As it stands, if you do not pass, you can not get promoted...

Do we(the CF we) need to have more options;

-recorded warnings and C&P,
-denial of career courses in addition to the loss of ability to be merited for promotion,
-madatory 1 hr supplemental pt for the next yr....

what more?

As for the navy pers not having room...you can do a crossfit style workout in a closet with a chinup bar, a mat, a skip rope, and a few dumbells. Not having facilities is not an excuse.

As for pers not having time...the CDS' direction is pretty clear...perhaps you need to add an hour onto the workday to fit it in.

StMMT
When that fella would fail his express test for the 1st time, he gets his initial warning that he's got to get his act together.
When that same fella fails his express test for the 2nd time, he:
- gets a medical to determine his health condition
- gets a PT program from PSP for him to follow
- In our shop, I also keep tabs on those who tanked - ensure that they are going to the gym and participating in sports activities.  If they aren't participating, then they better have a temp med category to explain why the hell not...

 

[geo]

I get tired of this endless business about Res fitness. My hunch is that alot of the agony comes from older Res soldiers, who wouldn't do anything about their own fitness no matter if they were in the Res or not.  There are  Res soldiers out there who do stay fit, because they make fitness part of their personal civilian, off-duty lifestyle on their own time. They don't look to the Army to do it for them, or to pay them, or go looking for special compensation if they slip and fall while jogging, any more than a bus driver, police officer, toaster repairman or librarian does. They like being fit. Except for us lucky people in the RegF who get time and resources assigned to us to get and stay fit, almost everybody else in the world has to get fit on their own. How the hell does a volunteer firefighter stay fit? If people with demanding civilian jobs can stay fit --in fact I'll bet you'll find that the fittest civvies are often the ones with the most demanding jobs-- then a Res soldier can do it  too.  To me, it isn't about being fit just to please the Army Reserve. It's about being fit as a human being.

Cheers

The people who do not get fit in the Reserves are
- people who have gotten themselves into a lifestyle crash.  All work, no play & just too effing tired at the end of the day (forget the fact that doing PT will in fact enegrize you)

And this is pert much the same kind of people who crash and burn in the regular force.

This is not a Reserve force issue
This is not a Regular force issue
This is a total force, lifestyle issue.

Remember that, most reserve areas have not pushed for any form of fitness test for like..... 30 some years.
Now that the CDS and CLS have mandated PSP to get the job done and include reservists in the annual fitness evaluation, it'll take a while to get everyone going in the same direction BUT I have confidence that it'll get done.

 

[blacktriangle]

The people who do not get fit in the Reserves are
- people who have gotten themselves into a lifestyle crash.  All work, no play & just too effing tired at the end of the day (forget the fact that doing PT will in fact enegrize you)

And this is pert much the same kind of people who crash and burn in the regular force.

This is not a Reserve force issue
This is not a Regular force issue
This is a total force, lifestyle issue.

Remember that, most reserve areas have not pushed for any form of fitness test for like..... 30 some years.
Now that the CDS and CLS have mandated PSP to get the job done and include reservists in the annual fitness evaluation, it'll take a while to get everyone going in the same direction BUT I have confidence that it'll get done.

Reservists at my unit are under directive to do a BFT soon, and we have been working towards it gradually. We also did an express test, and it certainly highlighted some of the fitness issues to me...

I, as a reservist, do not seek to be paid to do PT or anything like that, it's just annoying when I am getting injuries from running/rucking which may hinder my entire career, and yet Pte/Cpl/Sgt bigmac are in terrible shape, but are allowed to serve as they have never trained hard enough to really get hurt.  I have never heard about the fact that I can be covered, but considering the year it took get decent boots ( I had to buy them myself too) I'm not confident the army really gives a crap how healthy and in shape I am...

 

[Armymedic]

StMMT
When that fella would fail his express test for the 1st time, he gets his initial warning that he's got to get his act together.
When that same fella fails his express test for the 2nd time, he:
- gets a medical to determine his health condition
- gets a PT program from PSP for him to follow
- In our shop, I also keep tabs on those who tanked - ensure that they are going to the gym and participating in sports activities.  If they aren't participating, then they better have a temp med category to explain why the hell not...

Ack, but my point:
If this mbr fails again (3rd time), what is your COA? And why are we giving them 3 chances to pass the minimum fitness level?

 

[Armymedic]

People,

THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THE CF EXPRESS TEST AS A COMMON MINIMUM LEVEL OF FITNESS, for all genders and ages.

When it comes down to brass tacks, it does not matter if your standard is BFT, Para, JTF Coopers test.....the basic, minimum standard for the CF (like it or not) is the Express test.....

So why the $%#@ is people who are getting paid good money to be in our CF not meeting a major obligation of our employment?

 

[medaid]

Popnfresh, maybe you're earning to much money, because I would love for the Navy to pay me for my pt time ;D

 

[armyvern]

I have never heard about the fact that I can be covered, but considering the year it took get decent boots ( I had to buy them myself too) I'm not confident the army really gives a crap how healthy and in shape I am...

Oh for fuck sakes.

What the hell do boots have to do with it?

This post tells me that:

1) You're probably A Class; and

2) It's not just the Army, the same happens in the Navy and the AF too re boots for A Class pers. It's a Treasury Board matter; has something to do with those civilian doctors that you see and the fact that, very rarely, do A Class pers actually bring in copies of their med records from those civ doctors to notify their CoC that there may be a change in medical category (especially if that category is going down  ) -- as required by regulation.

Now, back on topic.

 

[blacktriangle]

Oh for frig sakes.

What the hell do boots have to do with it?

This post tells me that:

1) You're probably A Class; and

2) It's not just the Army, the same happens in the Navy and the AF too re boots for A Class pers. It's a Treasury Board matter; has something to do with those civilian doctors that you see and the fact that, very rarely, do A Class pers actually bring in copies of their med records from those civ doctors to notify their CoC that there may be a change in medical category (especially if that category is going down  ) -- as required by regulation.

Now, back on topic.

Vern,

Ack.

It's a rant, i know. On topic, I'm just trying to get my point across that not all res people are out of shape, and many of us do aspire to improve on our own time. I'm sure it's happened to many before me, but it's discouraging when a person can ruck or run their brains out, and no one cares one bit at the end of the day...its all about keeping the status quo so that certain people aren't embarrased. I've seen to much of lowering the standard to meet the soldier, instead of the other way around, and am sure that we are all weaker for that.

BTW, yes, I'm Class A in the midst of CT.

 

[retiredgrunt45]

-recorded warnings and C&P,
-denial of career courses in addition to the loss of ability to be merited for promotion,
-madatory 1 hr supplemental pt for the next yr....

This may outdate many on this board, but many infanteers who served with the infantry battalions in the 70s 80's and early 90's will know what happened to people who failed the annual fitness test which happened to be the 2X10 battle test. We also had to do the express test when it came out in 90. If any one here served with 3RCR during the "Col Jimmy Cox" (Now General Cox) days in Winnipeg and Cyprus during the 80's know full well what in shape meant. No excuses, a soldier had to be fit, and Jimmy had the last two words for the slackers. Bye, Bye.

The people who failed we're placed on remedial PT for how ever long it took to get them in shape, not only did they do daily PT in the morning with their respective platoons or companies, they also reported to the BOS at 17:30 hours daily, to be taken out for remedial PT. This went on until the soldier(s) was deemed fit by the company Sgt Major or the RSM. They then went on and did the 2X10 again, If they failed the second time they we're given a "recorded warning & C&P" and did the hatless dance in front of the Coy commander. If after the 3rd attempt they failed, they we're kept on remedial PT until they passed the test. Most passed on the second attempt. The ones who didn't we're often released. This was done for every trade in the battalion, EME, Clerks, Med'A's, QM's, etc. No exceptions.

There is no excuse for any "regular force" land based soldier who fails a simple fitness test standard. Someone mentioned clerks and what not, even these people should be able to pass the test. You want to be in the full time army, get in shape! Unless your on a temp medical category there's no excuse. If your exempt because of a permanent category, you shouldn't be in the military at all.

Fitness should be a top priority now that we're actually fighting a war.

 

[geo]

My only point is that, if the leadership failed to ensure it's personnel did get PT tested, then don't expect to turn things around on a dime

I believe the CDS & CLS were quite clear on their vision of where the army & the CF are going.  Reservists & regs are getting a handle on things & if they cannot, then there is a good chance that a career change is in the cards sometime soon.

 

[Harris]

There was a push for regular force soldiers to get this done back in the 2000-2003 period (cant remember exactly when).  Everyone in our unit had to write up a letter saying what sports we played or activities we engaged in as part of our exercise programs, and it covered us if we were injured outside of work hours or doing PT 'on our own time'.  Im surprised so few other units seem to do it, and as GEO implied, it shouldnt be a practice that surprises anyone.  Its something that every Sergeant and WO should be making sure gets done. 

My last CO tried to do just that, however the JAG said that he couldn't as we (Class A) folks were NOT covered when doing PT on our own time.  So it appears this "issue" is a location one.  Some parts of the county are/think they are covered and some parts aren't/don't think they are covered.  I personally would love to know which one it really is Canada wide.

While I agree with the majority of the information posted above but I have to say that it bothers me that I'm expected to be fit on my own time and own dime, yet the full time guys get a paid hour every day to get/stay fit.

 

[aesop081]

While I agree with the majority of the information posted above but I have to say that it bothers me that I'm expected to be fit on my own time and own dime, yet the full time guys get a paid hour every day to get/stay fit.

And us full-time guys are required to show up, at any time, 24/7 wether we like it or not.  This is not a slag against reservists but reg and res have their own set of benefits

 

[COBRA-6]

This is not a slag against reservists but reg and res have their own set of benefits

Does that mean that reservists only have to meet 85% of the Reg F PT standard?  ;D

 

[geo]

Harris,
I will poke around a little bit.  I have a sneaking feeling that, if Quebec's CSST does look after Class A servicemen who were injured (service related injury based on your COs order to do PT on your own time) then NSs Worknam's comp - or whatever it's called, should provide some protection & compensation VS what your JAG has said about the CFs ability to compensate.

It will take me a couple of days to verify -  BBL

 

[Sub_Guy]

I like bacon (I mean other than HDTV and Erotic entertainment is there anything better?) just as much as the next guy, but this thread has turned into a RES vs REG fitness blab!

If you wear the uniform you should be able to pass the test.  Its not a hard test.  Jeez, just show up and do it!  (Be sure to get your smoke and coffee down range before you start!)

The beep test stinks, I don't like it, but I think it has something to do with the tone of the voice on the tape.
But come on 19 push-ups, 19 sit-ups  - those are a gift!

Perhaps someone should notify the media outlets that this test has been around for a while, and that last year was not the first time that we were tested for fitness.
I am no "Mr. Lean" and by no means fit into a speedo nicely (anglo), but I can pass the expres test, it is sickening to think that there people who find that test a challenge.  Its embarrassing that the media got a hold of the story and ran with it, good thing it only lasted a couple of days. 

I am just waiting for Taliban Jack and Mr. Staples to throw in their bit..

 

[dapaterson]

The Army as a whole does not take Reserve force fitness seriously.  There are garrison locations with Reg F personnel which exist solely to support part-time Reserve soldiers.  They lock the doors and bar part-time reservists from using their fitness facilities.  Or, in one case, have the gall to charge part-time soldiers money for the privilege of using the equipment provided by the crown.

You want fit reservists?  Fine.  All CF gyms must be made available to Reservists.  No ifs, ands, or buts.  And the CF must agree to pay the part-time member's civilian wages or military pay, whichever is greater, if they get injured and are unable to work.

If we do tell reservists to get fit on their own time, the same rule should apply to the Reg F.  No more HQs letting people claim an hour a day for PT - they can do it like everyone else, on their own time.


Finally, there need to be sanctions for failure - both Reg and Res.  Hands up if you know someone who's had temp med cats or other reasons not to do Express or BFT that recur year after year.  Time to prune the deadwood, in both the Reg F and the Res F.

 

[Sub_Guy]

You want fit reservists?  Fine.  All CF gyms must be made available to Reservists.  No ifs, ands, or buts.  And the CF must agree to pay the part-time member's civilian wages or military pay, whichever is greater, if they get injured and are unable to work.

If we do tell reservists to get fit on their own time, the same rule should apply to the Reg F.  No more HQs letting people claim an hour a day for PT - they can do it like everyone else, on their own time.

All CF gyms are available to reservists!  I know I was shocked too, letting those part-time guys in there!  For Res units where there is no Reg force base near by they should have some sort of agreement with a local fitness company (443 Sqn in ESQ has a similar arrangement with a gym in Sidney). 


Fine if the same rules apply to Regs and Res, I would like to tear up my contract and as soon as I don't like something I can stand up and leave. 

Reg force PT is good, Unit PT is better it builds cohesion and morale, perhaps if the Res members want the same they can take that extra step and commit full time!  (ps We have great gyms)

 

[dapaterson]

Dolphin Hunter:

All gyms available to Reservists?  Hardly.  Try to use the one in London if you're a part-time Reservist.  Or ask the class A Reservists in the Dennison Armouries about the sign on the exercise room door "Class A reservists must pay to use the facilities".  Though I believe that one has disappeared - don't know if it was taken down due to a policy change, or torn down due to disgust, though.

On both sides of the Reg/Res divide there is still a sense of us and them (though much less pronounced than in the past).


Offtopic:  re: the "tear up my contract and leave" comment - how many Reg Force folks do you know who have threatened the career manager with just that to avoid a posting?

 

[geo]

Hmmm... this thread isn't supposed to be a Res VS Reg bashing sesson.
Regs say that it is an individual responsibility & reservists should do it on their own time and on their own nickle.  If they get hurt, too bad so sad... but, they seem to forget that, even if they themselves get injured on PT, they will continue to receive their paycheck every 15 days unitl they are fit to return to work.

Reservists on Class B are treated in a similar manner as the Regs.  You get hurt, you continue to get paid till you get better BUT if you are unfit at contract renewal time, you are unceremoniously dumped (unfit to meet job requirements) and put on Reserve Invalidity Indemnity (RII)- till you are fit to work.  If there is work at that time, all fine and good, welcome back OR ciao, have fun with UI.

Reservists on class A are not treated in a similar manner as the Regs.  You get hurt while doing PT on your own time, you will not receive RII, you are on your own unless you file a workman's comp claim.  I know it works in Alberta  and it works in Quebec... I will be ckecking it out for other provinces...