Military families living in mould-infested homes: Ombudsman

[Jarnhamar]

I looked into a time machine and found this news article.

OTTAWA - Facing cries for help from families of Canadian soldiers, the 2025 military ombudsman  said he is stepping in to help.

 

[PuckChaser]

Funny thing is, none of the PMQs will be upgraded by then, but we'll have another awesome Maple Leaf article about how many PMQs they've torn down and recycled!

 

[ditchpig041]

It seems that half the time I post on here someone complains about what I write and I get "negative mil points" or whatever the heck that means, but what the heck.  Heres my 2 cents.

The q's are junk.  The base I am at is FINALLY doing something about them.. There are massive renovations going on, and its about time.  The base I came from, being Esquimalt, did nothing at all.  There were people living with tarps on top or their RHU's for years and still getting jabbed in the arse with rent instead of getting the problem fixed.

Heres the little bit of information....... everyone knows that the rents can go up and up and up as there is no "rental tennancy agreement" between yourself and the Feds when it comes to renting there.  That being that, one has to remember now that CFHA is no longer within a chain of command.  The base, and thus the base commander, is responsible for all "single shacks" that exist within the confines of the fence line, but not the RHU's.  They are owned and managed by a CIVILIAN company....

So lets think here.  I am seeing a poop load of "the other people" that live on federal land getting compensation when someone there files a suit against those responsible for the up keep of their homes.  Someone has to be willing to toss the threats from the CoC asside, and let a civilian company know that they are responsible too, and SUE on behalf of their families.  It doesnt take you to prove that the documented and complained about cases of mold in your house is making you and your kids sick, but them to prove it isnt.  Then when they open the walls at the points of the leaky pipes and have to start calling in mold repair teams wholesale, I am willing to bet things are going to change.

Until then, all you are going to have is a lot of folk bantering between public forums and facebook about how they want something done, and CFHA getting your money while doing nothing.

Anyhoo, I have to go off to work to patrol my wonderful mold filled neighbourhood.

Have a great day in the branch.....

 

[aesop081]

  They are owned and managed by a CIVILIAN company....

The PMQs (RHUs) are not owned by CFHA.

The are managed by CFHA (not a "company" but a Special Operating Agency within DND) who reports to ADM(IE).

The base, and thus the base commander, is responsible for all "single shacks" that exist within the confines of the fence line, but not the RHU's.

CFHA works with Base commanders to administer RHUs/PMQs as set out in DAOD 5024-0

base/wing commanders:

administer and maintain furnished DND living accommodation within their area of responsibility;
approve the eviction of occupants from DND living accommodation;

support the Canadian Forces Housing Agency (CFHA) in evictions from DND living accommodation;

monitor plans, projects and programs to ensure that living accommodation needs within their geographical boundary are met;

provide advice, guidance and assistance to the local CFHA representative in determining unfurnished DND living accommodation housing needs;
determine the requirement for residential and transient quarters in their area of responsibility; and

acquire, manage and maintain public and non-public furnishings that are authorized for heritage residences.

I don't mind a good bout of CFHA-bashing myself but lets do it with straight facts.

Yes, i have lived in PMQs.

 

[Aerobicrunner]

I looked into a time machine and found this news article.

Thanks for that chuckle.

 

[ditchpig041]

First of all, that was WAY to quick to dig up a DAOD.... especially on a Sunday..... Just saying....

But as it says, and like I said, the base / wing commander deals with "furnished" places, such as the "shack": in the fence line, or the enhanced single quarters (should your place have something like that, which not every base does), whereas CFHA takes care of the RHU's.

I followed that DAOD, which tells you, in regards to CFHA ;

CFHA
recommend the development of capital, operations and maintenance projects for unfurnished DND living accommodation;

set the charges for unfurnished DND living accommodation and associated parking in accordance with the Policy on Management of Real Property of the Treasury Board of Canada Secretariat;

develop and implement procedures for administering, operating and managing the unfurnished DND living accommodation portfolio;

implement programs and initiatives within authority limits;

approve evacuation from unfurnished DND living accommodation for maintenance related emergencies;

recommend the eviction of occupants from unfurnished DND living accommodation;

conduct site-by-site residential housing studies of CF locations within Canada;

develop, implement and monitor plans for the replacement, renovation and maintenance of unfurnished DND living accommodation;

recommend requirement levels for unfurnished DND living accommodation on a site-by-site basis; and

prepare unfurnished DND living accommodation options and strategies, including site analysis and business cases.


Now this leads to the "Policy on Management of Real Property of the Treasury Board of Canada Secretariat" which, after a read regarding contaminated areas (mold being a contaminant)



6.1.12 Known and suspected contaminated sites are assessed and classified and risk management principles are applied to determine the most appropriate and cost-effective course of action for each site. Priority must be given to sites posing the highest human health and ecological risks. Management activities (including remediation) must be undertaken to the extent required for current or intended federal use. These activities must be guided by standards endorsed by the Canadian Council of Ministers of the Environment (CCME) or similar standards or requirements that may be applicable abroad. The costs of managing contamination caused by others must be recovered, when this is economically feasible.


Now, someone making an official complaint, now makes the mold a "Known and suspected contaminated site", at which point, remediation must be undertaken to the extent required for current or intended federal use (that being living).

So it is upon CFHA, the great monster, to follow the guidelines it states, and remediate any contaminated faults that cause health issues and or harm to one or ones family.

Now, according to the CFHA website,

"The Canadian Forces Housing Agency (CFHA) is the managing authority for the Department of National Defence (DND) housing portfolio. They operate, maintain and allocate approximately 14,000 DND residential housing units at Army bases, Navy bases and Air Wings located at 32 sites across Canada. CFHA's duties include the allocation, maintenance, repairs and recapitalization of the housing units, the administration of the shelter charge system and the strategic management of the housing assets on behalf of the Department of National Defence. "

So therefore, if they are in charge of the maintenance, and your mold is not addressed upon a complaint, then I believe that they are able to be held responsible.

Now perhaps I am reading too far into all of this, but, if they are an outside federal agency designed to oversee the management and repair of federal housing for houses on National Defence holdings, then they should be able to be held accountable, and thus legally liable, for any sickness / health issues.



All it takes is one person to make case law.....

 

[ditchpig041]

And just a quick side note here.... the policy definition of "contaminated site"

Contaminated Site (Site contaminé)
A site at which substances occur at concentrations that: (1) are above background levels and pose, or are likely to pose, an immediate or long-term hazard to human health or the environment, or (2) exceed the levels specified in policies and regulations.

 

[aesop081]

First of all, that was WAY to quick to dig up a DAOD.... especially on a Sunday..... Just saying....

All I did was type "Canadian forces housing agency" in google and followed the bouncing ball. Not too labour intensive. Something I am sure that anyone who has a beef with CFHA is capable of doing, no matter what day of the week it is.

Just sayin'

 

[ditchpig041]

That wasn't meant to be an insult at all btw..... It's always nice when someone comes back with a reference is all.  I guess that's the wonders of typing back and forth through a computer.

I'm used to having bosses blab and make it up to a member to find a reference.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

Ditchpig,

You did not exactly cover yourself in glory in the post where you got the basically fact of the legal status of CFHA wrong.  Kind of ruins your credibility.

Cdn Aviator, on the other hand, has gotten it right.

 

[ditchpig041]

Seaking


I have been told time and time again that everything is in the interpertation of DAOD's and CFAO's and all that fun stuff, which is why one clerk will tell you one thing, and another something else, until a third clerk takes your money away from you.

As far as I can read from the loop of links, is that they are an agency that is in charge of managing and maintaining the residential units that CF members reside in.  If they are the ones that are responsible for the maint. of said units, and they fail to follow up on the complaints of members that are living in the thus "contaminated units" then the liability falls on them for any health issues that may come up due to mold sickness.

Again, we are in the day and age where every branch of the government is being held accountable for either its actions or its inactions, and if they are the ones that manage, then they are the ones upon which the hammer falls when there is a problem.

 

[Dirt Digger]

So far I've seen talk of "contamination", but nothing indicating that any actual sampling for mould has occured. 

BTW:  I'm not talking about, "I saw this stuff and it was mould."  We are surrounded by a huge variety of mould and pollen spores - most of which have zero impact on our health.  You would need to have positive confirmation that indoor spore loads are well above outdoor levels, or the presence of mould species that are associated with health problems, such as Stachybotrys (black mould).

 

[PMedMoe]

So far I've seen talk of "contamination", but nothing indicating that any actual sampling for mould has occured. 

BTW:  I'm not talking about, "I saw this stuff and it was mould."  We are surrounded by a huge variety of mould and pollen spores - most of which have zero impact on our health.  You would need to have positive confirmation that indoor spore loads are well above outdoor levels, or the presence of mould species that are associated with health problems, such as Stachybotrys (black mould).

:goodpost:

A caveat:  Not all mould that is black in colour is Stachybotrys.

But yes, I love the people who complain about mould in their RHU but say they have no symptoms when they are outside.  Or people who claim allergies without any medical test results.  As stated above, mould is ubiquitous.

 

[Strike]

Or people who claim allergies without any medical test results. 

In the same vein, just because someone living in the Qs has an allergic reaction while at home (basic watery eyes, congestion, etc.) does not mean it's from the mould.  Could be something as inocuous as dust.  But everyone is a doctor of course.

 

[medicineman]

  But everyone is a doctor of course.

And have All Stateitis ("something for nothing" syndrome) until proven otherwise...as Moe noted, most black mould isn't the bad stuff, it's mildew, palin and simple.  But of course, mildew isn't all that newsworthy.

MM