Medak Pocket (info, documentaries, etc. - merged)

[rayvermette]

I actually spoke with Cpl Gomm late last year.  He took another photo I was searching for, but not this one.  Might have been a medic, someone from 2PPCLI HQ, or D Company.

Thanks in advance.

Ray

 

[claybot]

I've yet to read the book, not sure if I want to. A friend who was in the pocket with me read it and even though it was a good book it brought back a lot of memories he was trying to forget. Not sure I want those memories to resurface.

To me it was a great tour for 4 1/2 months.

With the rack of medals I got over 20 years of service, my tour of Croatia/Medak Pocket is the only one that counts. I've talked with ohters who served on the same tour and they feel the same way.

 

[legare]

I'm very interested about what you are discussing in this forum because I'm presently doing researches about the Medak Pocket Battle and plan to go in Croatia next year.  I have already came into contact with people who were there and read articles and books I found (Carol Off, Nolan/Taylor), but I want to have as many primary sources as possible to understand everything right:  would you agree to answer some of my questions on this forum or by email ?

 

[claybot]

Yes, I've sent you an email on this

 

[HollywoodHitman]

Silcox......

There are several guys in the Regiment who were there in the Medak....Be patient, hang around the mess a little bit and you're likely to hear a little about it.......

There are some, who if you ask in a certain way, will discuss some of their experiences there, at that time. Express some curiosity at the events there, and there may be someone in the Unit who might help ease some of your curiosity.

TM

 

[Blakey]

Silcox......

You are aware that the original poster posted this message over 5 years ago...right?  ;D

 

[HollywoodHitman]

Ok, where's my AK and clown suit? I saw a name I recognize, and there ya go......
:threat:

;D

 

[Glorified Ape]

I bought the book for my mom this past Christmas (hadn't read it when I gave it to her but was lucky enough to have a WO who was at Medak as a guest speaker at my IAP graduation and thought it might be a good book for my mom, as she didn't know much [like most Canadians] about the CF).

It turned out to be a mixed blessing gift - while she respected the hell out of the troops after reading the book (not that she didn't respect the CF prior to that), she was absolutely irate over the treatment they received, the UN's ineptitude, and all the other detestable crap that went on - including the quasi-blackout on the press coverage. I think she has even more misgivings about my joining the CF than she did before.

When I got to read it, I thought it was great, though I don't know anyone who was there nor knew much about the situation other than what little I could find about it on the net and what was recounted by our guest speaker. I've recommended it to some people.

 

[LF(CMO)]

As per the "Medak Pocket" see "Century of Service: The History of the SALH" page 236 uniforms of the SALH..... " M/Cpl., Combat Dress, Serving with UNPROFOR, Medak Pocket, Croatia, 1993" by Donald Graves.  ( A close friend of mine was involved in the research)

I'm curious as to the casualties, KIA, WIA etc.?  That is what will give its place in history (unfortunately) more than anything else!

 

[Infanteer]

I'm curious as to the casualties, KIA, WIA etc.?   That is what will give its place in history (unfortunately) more than anything else!

A quick scan of Lee Windsor's article in the Army Doctrine and Training Bulletin states that 16 Croatian KIA were found.  How many killed and wounded were removed is another matter (I forget what the Croatian government gave as figures).

I seem to remember that the Canadian force took 4 WIA, but I can't give you a definate source.

 

[LF(CMO)]

A quick scan of Lee Windsor's article in the Army Doctrine and Training Bulletin states that 16 Croatian KIA were found.   How many killed and wounded were removed is another matter (I forget what the Croatian government gave as figures).

I seem to remember that the Canadian force took 4 WIA, but I can't give you a definate source.

Thanks, I'll check that.  Be sure to check the illustration in the "History of the SALH"  It's good!  Also on page 238 there is a photo of four LH personnel on a knocked out Serbian Tank.  BTW:  A number of SALH are now preparing to deploy to Afgan.

 

[sjm]

I've never been a fan of military history, so I guess the Boer war will be breaking out in my back yard anytime now.

But seriously, I heard of the "minor altercation" a very short while (weeks) after it happened.  The details of the events that surrounded the incident have generally eluded me.  I just finished the book and I recommend it highly.  The history of the region is quite fascinating and I felt that Carol Off gave a fairly impartial view of the bigger picture.  She spread out the blame pretty evenly.  For those that were there, I salute you, hauling decaying corpses is not on my top ten list of things to do.

My favourite quote from the book "Real men don't do MOOTWA." What an ass.

I don't want to start a rant about bin rats again but who really cares how much a body bag costs, was he selling them on E-bay or something.

Again, to the troops that were there, you were and still are appreciated.  The truth is out there, it just takes a while to surface sometimes.

 

[claybot]

A quick scan of Lee Windsor's article in the Army Doctrine and Training Bulletin states that 16 Croatian KIA were found.   How many killed and wounded were removed is another matter (I forget what the Croatian government gave as figures).

I seem to remember that the Canadian force took 4 WIA, but I can't give you a definate source.

Lee Windsorsarticle is good but the part about "The bodies recovered included those of two young women found in a basement. They had apparently been tied up, shot and then doused with gasoline and burned." is part of the problem that finds it way into MEDAK.
When we found these bodies the MO said it looked like a mother and daughter but no one was sure, according to UN documents these to women were in their 60's.
Every time I hear the story of the operation these two women get younger and younger, the last time I heard it they were 14. I've never understood why this is done.
There was no way except by an autopsy to find out how old these women were when we were there they were burnt beyond any form of recognition.

 

[Infanteer]

A quick scan of Lee Windsor's article in the Army Doctrine and Training Bulletin states that 16 Croatian KIA were found.   How many killed and wounded were removed is another matter (I forget what the Croatian government gave as figures).

I seem to remember that the Canadian force took 4 WIA, but I can't give you a definate source.

Opps, my bad.  The article says that 16 Serb bodies were found following Croat pull back.  The article makes no mention of Croat casualties from the battle.

The article also mentions that the Canadians took the 4WIA during an intense barrage that followed the occupation of the town of Medak.

 

[Unknown C/S]

  While I have not yet read "Ghosts" I have read The Lion the Fox and the Eagle. Carol Off does not pretend to be a soldier. (as some journalists try) Her writing style conveys a story that most of the population will understand. (Soldiers are usually more critical of military matters be it in print, or on screen.)
  I have spoken with, and met Ms. Off while deployed in Bosnia and again in Macedonia . I was left with impression that she is both professional and unpretentious. She was generally concerned about the little thing in a soldiers life. When she took time and asked the soldiers "how are things?" she really wanted to know and actually waited for an answer.
  I have met other media types that sweep into camps overseas like the second comming and want the troops to feel honoured if they stop to talk to them.
  I shall attempt to purchase a copy of her book.
  To those who were destined to experience the event first hand, I imagine the the ghosts of Medak will continue to haunt them. For that reason, first hand accounts may be a long time comming on this site.
  We, as soldiers, agree to fullfill our commitment to the CF upon joining. The rucksack gets packed and off we go, no complaints. (well maybe a few.... :crybaby: lol) It is a shame that the politicians do not feel obligated to respect/acknowledge the task if it is not deemed to be "a warm and fuzzy story" or accept responsibility for placing them in that type of situation.
  My respect and sympathy go out to those soldiers. At least Carol Off did not just let the story die.

 

[Maritime_Matt]

Read "Ghosts...", as well as "The Lion, the Fox, and the Eagle" within the same week- I haven't read two books this quick since University. Ms. Off is a brilliant journalist. These two books are both excellent.

 

[zeke_wpg]

Read it quite a while ago, but it was a good read.. Funny re-remembering stuff that happened..

 

[Guest]

I was told there was a documentary on the medak pocket done by W5 I am unable to locatea link to this. I am interested in a video documentary that was mentioned on this program . My son in law was in this Battle .If anyone can direct me in the right direction it would be appreciated . My e-mail is peimom17@hotmail.com. Thanks 

 

[Mineguy]

Nope sorry guys, I had to delete this one after writing it as ive decided its to sensitve to disscuss with normal members. Noneck, we both know each other well (if this is the Engr Noneck) id love to tell you personally back home in detail sometime we are both home again at the same time as I know you well what ive Heard from people I know who were on the recieviing end of the PPLCI which isnt in any of these books over the past years from "inside" croatia. It will confirm or deny alot of true and untrue things you may have heard but its nothing to change whats known about the atrocities, just alot of background info not in this book or reported properly from all sides (i.e croat one also) without bias.

Pm me when you get a chance, but im in Iraq So I might not get back fast...

 

[McG]

I just saw the paperback in stores.  It seems critism about the first cover was heard:

Still not a Canadian soldier though.