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Making Canada Relevant Again- The Economic Super-Thread

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Ref the Militia Myth and the Mythters and Mythis who keep spouting this please like me nonsense

Should amend it to the Militia (non Permanent and Permanent Active Militia) Myth

I :salute: you's!

And I's from an immigrant family too and I's going to RMC and will meet anyone who yaps on about this at RMC outside - right now!   :skull:
 
logau said:
Ref the Militia Myth and the Mythters and Mythis who keep spouting this please like me nonsense

Should amend it to the Militia (non Permanent and Permanent Active Militia) Myth

I :salute: you's!

And I's from an immigrant family too and I's going to RMC and will meet anyone who yaps on about this at RMC outside - right now!   :skull:

Was that intended to be a joke of some sort???
 
Yes - the Myth part is a joke on who ever brings it up.

And the step outside part is one on Whiskey 601 telling the guy his thoughts of RMC were unwelcome. :crybaby:

Have I mythed anything?

Anyone want more?     :blotto:
 
logau said:
Yes - the Myth part is a joke on who ever brings it up.

And the step outside part is one on Whiskey 601 telling the guy his thoughts of RMC were unwelcome. :crybaby:

Have I mythed anything?

Anyone want more?  :blotto:

I don't think anyone has a clue what it is you're rambling about, care to start again?
 
To clarify - in this thread I support your post about beware of mythmaking and don't support the post of one member telling another to reconsider their thoughts on going to RMC.



 
All we hold dear, all we thought worth standing on guard for, all we were ultimately willing to put our lives on the line for slipping away?

We're doomed


Monday, 14 March 2005
Mark Steyn


It's in the nature of things that a conservative columnist in Trudeaupia spends much of his time lowering his readers into the abyss of despair. And, to be honest, I get a little disheartened by the amount of correspondence I get beginning, "Great piece on the Martin Liberals! Right on the money!! Do you have any information on emigrating to the U.S.? Or maybe one of those eastern European countries with the 16 per cent flat tax?â ?

Which I suppose gets to the heart of the matter: is Canada doomed?

A lot of places are. Russia, for example. It's midway through its transition from "superpowerâ ? to ghost town. Russian men already have a lower life expectancy than Bangladeshis; not because Bangladesh is brimming with actuarial advantages, but because being a Russian male is to belong to an endangered species. By 2025, the country's population will have fallen by a third. By mid-century, vast, empty Russia will have a smaller population than tiny Yemen. The decline in male longevity is unprecedented for a (relatively) advanced nation not at war. Russia has a serious AIDS problem, though not as bad as Africa's, and it's a measure of the nation's decline that for once nobody seriously thinks the HIV pandemic can be solved with free condom distribution. AIDS, along with extraordinary rates of drug-fuelled hepatitis C, heart disease and TB, is just one more symptom of what happens when an entire people lacks the will to rouse itself from self-destruction.

Immediately after his retirement, you may recall, Pierre Trudeau took his sons to Siberia, because that was "where the future is being built.â ? Any future being built in the outlying parts of Russia belongs to Muslims and Chinese in need of lebensraum, and drug cartels and terrorist networks eager to take advantage of remote areas in a state lacking sufficient reliable manpower to police its borders. Despite M. Trudeau's enthusiasm, Canada is not Russia. But the fate of the post-Communist motherland is an instructive example of what a dead end radical secular statism is: after seven decades of the government making every big decision for them, Russia's menfolk seem incapable of functioning as adults.

Canada, unfortunately, has embarked on a much suppler, more slippery form of radical secularism: you don't ban religion, you just subject it to the ever-sterner strictures of "toleranceâ ?; you don't forbid private enterprise, you just create a business climate where almost all successful ventures wind up dependent on state patronage and run by good friends of the ruling party; you don't turn the people into wards of the state overnight, you just use an incremental accumulation of ostensibly benign measures, from government health care to government day care, to redefine the relationship between the "citizenâ ? and his rulers. The soft totalitarianism of the Trudeaupian state is a much harder target to take aim at than the obvious wasteland of Andropov-era Soviet Communism.

The lesson of Russia's death spiral is a simple one: as Mrs. Thatcher likes to say, "The facts of life are conservative.â ? The nation that tried to buck them the most thoroughly is falling the fastest. We won't learn that lesson because, M. Trudeau's effusions notwithstanding, we don't see ourselves as sharing any of Russia's characteristics.

So what about Europe? Canadians are, at least psychologically, an honorary member of the EU: we take the "progressiveâ ? Euro-view on Kyoto, cradle-to-grave welfare, abortion, a bloated "public sectorâ ? workforce, confiscatory taxation, joke prison sentences, and just about everything else. But, as I've noted here before, the design flaw in the Euro-Canadian secular welfare state is that it needs a traditional religious-society birthrate to sustain it. In the EU, the fertility rate is now 1.46 children per childbearing woman--well below "replacement rate,â ? and well below what an aging population entitled to lavish state benefits needs. Thus, to avoid collapse, European nations will need to take in immigrants at a rate no stable society has ever attempted. The CIA is predicting the EU will collapse by 2020. I think that's rather a cautious estimate, myself. It seems more likely that within the next couple of European election cycles, the internal contradictions of the EU will manifest themselves in the usual way, and that by 2010 we'll be watching burning buildings, street riots and assassinations on The National every night. I think it will be much harder for the Canadian Liberal party's parochial multiculturalists to argue that the collapse of Holland or the disintegration of Germany has no lessons for us.

And even if they did, south of the border the lessons will be learned. For a good three decades, the Democratic party has been running on fumes, except in the Clinton era, when it was running on semen. But, either way, the tank's on empty and, with the exception of Senator Rodham, most of the folks in the car--Ted Kennedy, Robert C. Byrd--look like a shuffleboard outing rather than the cutting edge of political dynamism. For the foreseeable future, America will get more conservative, there will be fewer blue states, and outside the coastal cities and a few college towns, an intellectually barren Democratic party faces remorseless decline--unless, as Mrs. Clinton is currently doing (or at least pretending to do), it moves right. So Trudeaupia will be even less like its neighbour and principal trading partner, but a lot more like the Europe whose Conflagration of the Day Lloyd Robertson will be benignly presiding over every evening.

The question, then, is: at what point does the penny drop? Last year, the British historian Niall Ferguson argued that the Anglo-American "special relationshipâ ? was over. "The typical British family,â ? he wrote, "looks much more like the typical German family than the typical American family. We eat Italian food. We watch Spanish soccer. We drive German cars. We work Belgian hours. And we buy second homes in France. Above all, we bow before central government as only true Europeans can.â ?

But so what? Canadians eat American food, watch American sports, drive American cars, work American hours (more or less), and buy second homes in Florida. But we still bow down before central government as only true Europeans can. A shared taste in Dunkin' Donuts or Celine Dion CDs is no proof of geopolitical compatibility. In the things that matter, Canadians are more foreign to Americans than we've ever been.

Indeed, the Liberal party has deployed all the Boston Crème Timbits as a useful cover, a kind of pop-culture neutron bomb: walk down a Canadian Main Street and the landscape of our lives looks very American--Wal-Mart, Burger King, Spider-Man at the multiplex. But scratch the surface and everything is as different than America as it's ever been. The Grits made the same calculation Ibn Saud did when he met with Colonel Eddy, the first U.S. emissary to Saudi Arabia: the Americans would prioritize the economic relationship, and "leave our faith aloneâ ?--in Ibn Saud's case, Wahhabism; in ours,Trudeaupian statism.

Yet, just as the cost-benefit analysis has changed vis-à-vis the Saudis, so it will with Canada. The U.S. has quietly decided it cannot save Europe from itself. But I doubt they'll demonstrate the same equanimity about their northern neighbour.

The illusion of permanence is the curse of post-Christian civilization. Religious societies have a much greater sense of both past and future, as we did a century ago, when we spoke of death as joining "the great majorityâ ? in "the unseen world.â ? But if secularism's starting point is that this is all there is, it's no surprise that, consciously or not, they invest the here and now with far greater powers of endurance than it's ever had. The idea that progressive Euro welfarism is the permanent resting place of human development was always foolish; we now know that it's suicidally so.

The collapse of half the western world is a tragedy--in the true, Greek sense--but every cloud has a silver lining, and, given that Europe's rendezvous with destiny is a few years ahead of ours, their fate gives us the opportunity to avoid winding up sharing it: their self-immolation may yet be our salvation. The wobbling blancmange that is Paul Martin may not be up to the task, but the resistance of a big chunk of Liberal voters to gay marriage suggests the party's grassroots may start to sober up long before the leadership. The facts of life remain conservative, and the liberal fantasy erected in their place is, as we're about to see in Spain and Belgium and Sweden, a death cult.

On the other hand, if the news from Europe over the next decade doesn't serve as a wake-up call for Canada, we deserve to sleepwalk to the same grim end.
 
Hmmm.   It is relatively easy to find a blogger whose view of the world will jive with yours.   Just because it is posted on the internet, doesn't make it so - and we have seen plenty of examples of that in Army.ca   ;)

I prefer, in my naively optimistic way, to disagree with Mr Steyn.   Canada is not doomed - but the Canada that Mr Steyn wishes we lived in is.

Here is the litmus test - would I want to live anywhere else?

(And before anyone asks, yes, I have seen a bit of the world, am an immigrant from Europe, have another passport if I chose to use it, and have marketable skills - indeed I turned down a chance to emmigrate in the last 10 years).

The answer is no.  

Canada - that great experiment - is just where I want to be. Will I agree with everything that happens in this, my chosen land?   No.  

Will I continue to serve her greater interests? Yes.

My two cents.

Dave
 
Right on Dave.  I too was born overseas, and immigrated from the UK at the age of 2.  I've been back to Europe several times, and I would consider myself to be flexible enough, and possess enough standardized skills to be marketable to foreign countries.

However, I would never choose to live outside of Canada.  And if I absolutely had to, I'd probably move back to Europe - I would NEVER make a home south of the border.  No disrespect to Americans, but I certainly wouldn't want to make America my home.

True, there are some things in this country that need work.  There are some things in this country that need to change.  There are some things in this country that I disagree with.  But, would I chose to live anywhere else in the world?  No.  Would I feel as safe in a foreign country, as I do here in Canada?  Probably not.
 
that's mark steyn for ya. he's got a real talent for tarting up his lurid wet dreams and repackaging them as grim prophesies of doom.
so here's my grim prophesy: canada, the eu, the us and the rest of western civilisation will still be open for business in 2010, 2020, 2030 and so on, with each year of continued prosperity bringing an increasingly hysteric mark steyn ever closer to his inevitable aneurysm.
and those countries that still haven't become "radically secular" will still be toilets (like saudi arabia, iran, the nation-cult known as north korea, etc).

my 2 cents (which by then should be worth a whole dollar -- or 90 euros or 80 yen, take your pick)

 
squealiox said:
that's mark steyn for ya. he's got a real talent for tarting up his lurid wet dreams and repackaging them as grim prophesies of doom.
so here's my grim prophesy: canada, the eu, the us and the rest of western civilisation will still be open for business in 2010, 2020, 2030 and so on, with each year of continued prosperity bringing an increasingly hysteric mark steyn even closer to his inevitable aneurysm.
and those countries that still haven't become "radically secular" will still be toilets (like saudi arabia, iran, the nation-cult known as north korea, etc).

my 2 cents (which by then should be worth a whole dollar -- or 90 euros or 80 yen, take your pick)

lol I agree, and I love your phrasing. Although I wish he really would give information on emigrating to those people writing him for it.

What he says about the Democrats in the US does seem to be largely true but I'd attribute that to a healthy serving of circumstance with a side of incompetence. Both sides fall flat on their face and the other side always heralds it as the end of an ideology but that seems little more than wishful thinking.
 
I could list a couple of dozen of countries that are a lot worse of than Canada.
 
vangemeren said:
I could list a couple of dozen of countries that are a lot worse of than Canada.

Obviously there are worse places to live,but there are reasons for that.it is quite arrogant to think Canada is immune to misfourtune that has befallen other countries.Canada is nothing more than a straw house beside a brush fire.One small spark and it's game over.
 
One American's veiw: http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/005/349tpijp.asp
 
Obviously there are worse places to live,but there are reasons for that.it is quite arrogant to think Canada is immune to misfourtune that has befallen other countries.Canada is nothing more than a straw house beside a brush fire.One small spark and it's game over.

There is potential for any country to collapse into anarchy. We must be vigilant to keep it from going that way.

I would like to know everybody's opinions on the one thing that would doom Canada as a single, free, and civil nation.
 
I would like to know everybody's opinions on the one thing that would doom Canada as a single, free, and civil nation.

Growing civil unrest is a big one,coupled with a massive implosion of our fragile economy.
 
I am certainly guilty of bouts of negativism.  I have travelled to several countries, not all primarily English-speaking, in which I could bring myself to live and work comfortably.

The values and character of societies are always subject to change.  Some societies and cultures have proven more amenable to the advancement of freedoms than others.  When the resulting change starts to retard rather than advance freedoms, there is danger.  The values of an earlier Canada were the enablers of the values we hold today.  The values we hold today might be greater enablers or not; I don't think there is enough evidence to decide which way we are moving on the freedom vector.
 
I think that as long as we continue to allow the growth of Socialism, and Positive Rights in particular, our economy will go the way of the Dodo ... that said, I think that (in the absence of major change) Europe's economy will collapse first which will (hopefully) scare enough Canadians straight ... it CAN happen to us.
 
I_am_John_Galt said:
I think that as long as we continue to allow the growth of Socialism, and Positive Rights in particular, our economy will go the way of the Dodo ... that said, I think that (in the absence of major change) Europe's economy will collapse first which will (hopefully) scare enough Canadians straight ... it CAN happen to us.

Just how is Europe's economy going to collapse? It's comparable to those of the us or asian countries, and europe also has a lot of intrinsic disadvantages the us doesn't: the eurozone has very real language barriers, segmented capital markets, germany is still digesting the old east germany, etc. (canada also is at a scale disadvantage to the us).   for all that, you can still look up the oecd data and see that yes, the us does lead in per-capita gdp, but they're all within the same ballpark. plus, the us is every bit as protectionist (ag subsidies, industrial tarriffs, you name it) as the rest of them, even moreso in many cases.
as for all this tinfoil-hat talk about the supposed "socialism" of europe or canada, do you really believe the canadian economy is closer to comecon than to the us model? Some of the most competitive companies in the world are from europe, and a few from canada as well. just try to name a single soviet enterprise that managed to compete globally. i can't.
 
as for all this tinfoil-hat talk about the supposed "socialism" of europe or canada, do you really believe the canadian economy is closer to comecon than to the us model?

Totalitarianisim-Is any political system in which a citizen is totally subject to a governing authority in all aspects of day to day life.It involves constant indoctrination achieved by propaganda to erase any potential for dissent.

A communist state by definition is a state ruled by a single political party,sound familiar?
In Marxist political theory,Capitalisim is to be replaced by socialisim and socialisim is to be replaced at some point by communisim.

I think i will keep mt tinfoil hat,and you may keep your rose coloured glasses.
 
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