Living with an OSI.
- Thread starter dogger1936
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mariomike said:
Its already being faked by hundreds, if not thousands, of insurance claimants. They succeed because nobody really understands what PTSD is or how you 'get it'.
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Greymatters said:
It is hard to say. I have seen healthy people, with no external injuries, completely break down at accident scenes. Especially when children are involved. Even if it wasn't their fault. I've seen others walk away from a serious crash and shrug it off as if nothing had happened.
With all the people killed and injured in car wrecks over the years, there must be a psychological impact.
If interested:
"After The Crash: Assessment and Treatment of Motor Vehicle Accident Survivors", which is published by the American Psychological Association.
OldSolduer
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mariomike said:
Just over three years ago, I was at the scene of a fatal three car crash. Three people died, one right in front of me, and two more burned to death. To date, I've had no nightmares or any adverse effects, I think. Same with the two soldiers who were with me.
I think its mental preparation in some part, or maybe a genetic thing.....who knows?
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When I was younger i was on practicum for my EMT-A, my first call came in as an elderly woman with chest pains, but by the time we were moving it turned into a single vehicle roll over with 4 passengers. Upon arrival 2 were pinned under the vehicle and one was appx 10 feet away having been throw from the vehicle into a tree. SHe was bleeding badly but otherwise ok. The driver was found some distance away and had passed before we arrived. I remember feeling for a pulse and not finding it (very strange thing to realize) To this day I remember not feeling the pulse and shiver about it for some reason, and i remember getting emotional when i found out she had a child. Other than that I have no adverse effects pertaining to that car accident. I have always been able to disconnect from that kind of stuff. Never thought of it like that before...wierd
RTG
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Jim Seggie said:
I dont think its mental prep...heck Idid quite a bit. I have zero issue while Iwas there. Icame home however and the emotions I had turned off didnt turn back on. No joy, no love, no excitement. Then when some stress was added I reacted with anger to everything and finally had a break down in jan where I was crying in my basement everyday before and after work. my wife and I are very close and it took only 2 days before she watched me go down and came down to find me crying like a baby.
I really do perfer the term "combat fatigue" compared to PTSD cause thats how I identified it. Iwas the lead vehicle for near 8 months. I was perfectly ready to die after my early HLTA.I prepared myself that Iwas done...I had way too many close calls before my HLTA that I figured there was only so many times I could roll the dice before Igot it. Somehow I made it on that chopper at the end...I wasnt prepared for that.
I extracted friendly casualities with my normal cool and calm demeanour. Everyone would comment and ask if I even had feelings. Here I was extracting our wounded and I was pissed cause I couldnt have my coffee I just made.....think about that! Unfortunately that the truth. Shrinsk have told me my coffee getting cold was a way to detach from the situation and proide the aid/work in a fast manner without focusing on friendly dead.
I've patched children with missing leg's up...and all I could think was holy heck they do make that lalalalalalalalala sound instead of screaming. Many other things bug me many other thing anger me... most of which I can never get into on a open forum or even ever bring up. It was a long 8 moonths full of death and killing. Unfortunately I didnt fair out as well as I expected.
OldSolduer
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"Iwas the lead vehicle for near 8 months
dogger, why was that?
dogger, why was that?
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Jim Seggie said:
Job requirements. I was the best at it. Aside from two days the whole tour I was in the lead. the first day it got so messed up I was put up in front to conduct the breaching as the other guy messed it up bad. Another day was when one of my good friends died they put me in the back to chill.
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Jim Seggie said:
Jim, that is a call you can tell your grand-children about.
Of course, the experts have a name for everything these days: "Cumulative Career Traumatic Stress" (CCTS) is the one I am hearing now: "Individuals who serve as emergency personnel are often continually exposed to high levels of traumatic stress and intense emotional experiences resulting from exposure to traumatic and critical events."
It looks like they are going to change the law:
http://www.ontla.on.ca/bills/bills-files/39_Parliament/Session2/b011.pdf
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dogger1936 said:
I'm not combat arms, but I completely understand this. I was on every kinetic operation on my tour save 2. 1 was because I was leaving on HLTA (I desperately wanted to be there), and the 2nd because my Bison had 25 litres of Bison transmission fluid go from the fill neck directly into the hull and they couldn't move my crew to the other serviceable vehicle. My boss tried to give me a line about going on the "toughest mission" near the end of tour.... I told him that he only went because I was stuck in KAF because my vehicle was grounded. He agreed when he finally realized where he had put myself and my guys for the whole tour. Sometimes it sucks being "that guy" that is just so good at his job he's indispensable for the critical missions.
I really hope things go well with your recovery, Dogger. A close friend of mine is battling PTSD and it really hurts me to see him in so much pain. Best wishes for a full recovery, brother.
OldSolduer
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dogger1936 said:
That's plain wrong.
"It's a cliche, yes, but if there is an elephant in the room when it comes to our military, our police, and our EMS crews, it is PTSD.":
^ I keep hearing it called that more and more. It seems like the help is increasing, but so are those who are afflicted. (not including those who 'fake' it)
^ I keep hearing it called that more and more. It seems like the help is increasing, but so are those who are afflicted. (not including those who 'fake' it)
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I think it would be pretty tough to fake it. You'd have to trick a lot of people to get any treatment. It's not like you walk into the MIR and say your having nightmares and then bam, your on category and then pentioned. It takes the well trained eye of professionals to diagnose you with PTSD. Sure you could have depression, or an anxiety disorder, or maybe even bi-polar, but not PTSD which is almost an accumulation of everything above. I don't think that there are members out there that have completely faked it and are now catagorized as having PTSD.
the 48th regulator
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Turner said:
Agree,
It owuld be easier for fake a back injury, and beneficial as you would be told to lay down until you are better....
dileas
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the 48th regulator said:
A back injury is a million times easier to fake. I've said it before, anybody who willingly walk around with this label for a few extra clams a month, needs a different kind of mental health attention. I know we've taken great strides forward from the days of being immediately culled from the herd to stop the infection spreading, and the inevitable canteen innuendo. I felt like a cow with BSE.
Staff Weenie
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You’re completely correct that it would be easier to fake a soft tissue injury, and there’s far less stigma attached. But that doesn’t mean that PTSD cannot be faked. If a person studies the key diagnostic criteria, and is a good enough actor, they could pull it off. Clinicians are people too, they make mistakes, and they can be gullible. They’d also have to be persistent as well – based upon personal experience, the timelines for non-urgent appointments are into the months. I gave up on the system when they lost my file, changed staff, forgot to book appointments, etc, etc, etc.....
That said, I wonder if we really have many of the kind of dishonest liars who would have that degree of skill, concentration, and focus to do this in the CF? The corporate CF culture has really changed. When I was in the Role 3, I saw wounded soldiers whose only goal was to get back to their buddies – and that mentality was everywhere. There were quite a few patients who deliberately down-played their injuries to try and stay in the game. Of all the mental health patients that I was aware of, only one was obviously faking, and he wasn’t Canadian – I believe the MPs took him away in the end.
That said, I wonder if we really have many of the kind of dishonest liars who would have that degree of skill, concentration, and focus to do this in the CF? The corporate CF culture has really changed. When I was in the Role 3, I saw wounded soldiers whose only goal was to get back to their buddies – and that mentality was everywhere. There were quite a few patients who deliberately down-played their injuries to try and stay in the game. Of all the mental health patients that I was aware of, only one was obviously faking, and he wasn’t Canadian – I believe the MPs took him away in the end.
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mariomike said:
Im aware that people can get PTSD from accidents, attending accidents, or even just witnessing an accident, especially if children or fatalities are involved. Im also aware of what shock can do to people.
There are legitmate cases out there, but thats not what Im referring to. Im talking about people who read up on the symptoms (or coached on the symptoms) and then pretend to have it so they can get better insurance claim settlements or sue their employers. People who claim they got PTSD because their boss yelled at them, or PTSD from a <15kmh bumper crash.
These are the type of cases that belittle veterans who actually have PTSD, and increases scepticism about who really suffers from it.
Staff Weenie
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It would be interesting to see how many faked cases are occurring in the civilian world – especially in the US where litigation is as prevalent as breathing. When you have a situation where medicine, the legal system, and insurance companies are each multi-billion dollar industries, the invitation to corruption and lies is wide open. Sadly, Canada is following our US neighbours a little too closely in this regard. When there's money to be made, people of low morals will do anything to get it.....
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MPwannabe said:
"Sun Media has written extensively about how PTSD is not only sweeping through the armed forces -- often resulting in homelessness, substance abuses and suicide -- but how it is also gripping police forces and first responders across the country in similar fashion."
Thinking back almost 40 years ago as a "first responder", other than hiring a staff psychologist ( which they did in the early 1980's ), I do not know what more my department could have done.
The scene at the 01:05 is the way it was:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfUwvmRmMtw
I love the expression on the captain's face - ex-paramedic, lifetime civil servant:
"I've never fired anyone in my life. Duty calls. The City needs you."
"Nobody gets fired, son. Look at me." "Let's go have some fun."
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