Justin Trudeau hints at boosting Canada’s military spending

I'll believe it when I see it.

 

[MilEME09]

Providing infra funds to communities where the CAF benefits lets the communities deal with contracting and maintenance, and avoids ADM IE / DCC and other sinkholes of inefficiency.

Or instead of being reactionary let's create 10 and 20 year strategic growth and infrastructure plans for bases, and other areas. Prioritize them and provide the funding

 

[Haggis]

Providing infra funds to communities where the CAF benefits lets the communities deal with contracting and maintenance, and avoids ADM IE / DCC and other sinkholes of inefficiency.

Maybe each remote northern community airfield should come with a ROWPU delivered by that A330.

 

[Czech_pivo]

I know what you're getting at but you can't be using the word "Socialist" as a defining characteristic. National Socialists are significantly different political philosophy from Socialist Republics. And communists sure as hell aren't actually socialists either.

That's like saying everyone who called themselves a Peoples Democracy is actually a Democracy...

I know it, I was just having a bit of propagandistic fun at the expense of Singh and gang.
The USSR was never really ‘Communist’ anyways.

 

[Grimey]

Canada needs a new white paper - a non partisan one that will be followed by governments for 20+ years.

The Australians have their collective poop in a group on that. There seems to be a broad consensus on Oz’s place in the world that supplants the bickering, pork barreling and procurement inertia that we can’t seem to solve.

 

[TacticalTea]

The Australians have their collective poop in a group on that. There seems to be a broad consensus on Oz’s place in the world that supplants the bickering, pork barreling and procurement inertia that we can’t seem to solve.

Perhaps this may serve as a lead in unraveling this mystery:

Canadian PMs


Australian PMs

 

[childs56]

No one gets a gun until they tell us their names.

Kinda the point that they fill out the application and provide a resume. We could even go as far as providing a criminal record check.

 

[Remius]

Kinda the point that they fill out the application and provide a resume. We could even go as far as providing a criminal record check.

You’ve obviously never seen the Simpson’s…

 

[rmc_wannabe]

You’ve obviously never seen the Simpson’s…

 

[dimsum]

Australian PMs
View attachment 69758

The one thing I'll note about that chart is that at least in the past 15 or so years, those changes of govt (especially the ones where the replacement is also from the same party) doesn't mean the Australians voted every time.

e.g. The Rudd-Gillard-Rudd flip was because Gillard effectively deposed Rudd, who came back to depose her, then called an election where Labor (read: Liberal) lost to Liberal (read: Conservative).

Also from Wiki:

The last prime minister to serve out a full government term in the office was John Howard, who won the 2004 election and led his party to the 2007 election, but lost. Since then, the five subsequent prime ministers have been either voted out of the office mid-term by the caucuses of their own parties, assumed the office mid-term under such circumstances, or both.

Australian politics is actually really fun to watch because you never know when your own party will stab you in the back.

But yes, all major parties know that Oz is in an unfriendly neighbourhood so Defence isn't a football. That doesn't mean pork-barrelling and Australianization leading to procurement issues isn't a thing - it totally is and I've shared links of their procurement screw-ups elsewhere in here.

Another factor is that their media just doesn't really make hay over it like ours does, and when it does, it's not international news so Canadians don't see it. The last probable ADF international news was when one of their SAS platoons was accused of potential war crimes in Afghanistan.

 

[IKnowNothing]

Arguably SSE allows the CAF to field a very robust force.
I’d argue it’s tunnel vision inside the CAF that is the biggest issue, or no one wanting to sacrifice their careers on that hill

I'd also argue (based on a little further digging on @Kirkhill 's Denmark comparison) that funding isn't the primary issue either. We have 85-90% of the spend by GDP% and 50-60% of the pro-rated capability. That's a ridiculous gap in value per dollar.

"Wait and see if the government takes this seriously and gives us more money" is an unacceptable response to a land war in Europe that we are grossly unprepared to play any meaningful role in should it get to an Article 5 situation.


If procurement/ bureaucracy is the problem, cut the gordian knot.
"Urgent Operational Requirements (UORs) arise from the identification of previously unprovisioned and emerging capability gaps as a result of current or imminent operations or where deliveries under existing contracts for equipment or services require accelerating due to an increased urgency to bring the capability they provided into service. These capability shortfalls are addressed by the urgent procurement of either new or additional equipment, enhancing existing capability, within a time scale that cannot be met by the normal acquisition cycle"

I'd say that "active shooting war with NATO considering entering/ being pulled into" = urgent and a battlegroup stationed in Latvia = operational.

Time for leaders to lead.

 

[Fabius]

Lol so far the Army’s main response has been to cut this years ammo allocations by a massive margin.
No idea why.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Time for leaders to lead.

In the current political environment this will be highly unlikely to happen.

I'm guessing it will be more like 'subordinate leaders will muddle through in the absence of clear direction from gun shy senior leaders'.

Which is how we got to where we are now, of course

 

[TacticalTea]

The one thing I'll note about that chart is that at least in the past 15 or so years, those changes of govt (especially the ones where the replacement is also from the same party) doesn't mean the Australians voted every time.

e.g. The Rudd-Gillard-Rudd flip was because Gillard effectively deposed Rudd, who came back to depose her, then called an election where Labor (read: Liberal) lost to Liberal (read: Conservative).

Also from Wiki:


Australian politics is actually really fun to watch because you never know when your own party will stab you in the back.

But yes, all major parties know that Oz is in an unfriendly neighbourhood so Defence isn't a football. That doesn't mean pork-barrelling and Australianization leading to procurement issues isn't a thing - it totally is and I've shared links of their procurement screw-ups elsewhere in here.

Another factor is that their media just doesn't really make hay over it like ours does, and when it does, it's not international news so Canadians don't see it. The last probable ADF international news was when one of their SAS platoons was accused of potential war crimes in Afghanistan.

It's not so much of exactly who or what Australians vote for, but rather what they pay attention to, and thus, as you say, what their media report on and how.

I'd also argue (based on a little further digging on @Kirkhill 's Denmark comparison) that funding isn't the primary issue either. We have 85-90% of the spend by GDP% and 50-60% of the pro-rated capability. That's a ridiculous gap in value per dollar.

"Wait and see if the government takes this seriously and gives us more money" is an unacceptable response to a land war in Europe that we are grossly unprepared to play any meaningful role in should it get to an Article 5 situation.


If procurement/ bureaucracy is the problem, cut the gordian knot.
"Urgent Operational Requirements (UORs) arise from the identification of previously unprovisioned and emerging capability gaps as a result of current or imminent operations or where deliveries under existing contracts for equipment or services require accelerating due to an increased urgency to bring the capability they provided into service. These capability shortfalls are addressed by the urgent procurement of either new or additional equipment, enhancing existing capability, within a time scale that cannot be met by the normal acquisition cycle"

I'd say that "active shooting war with NATO considering entering/ being pulled into" = urgent and a battlegroup stationed in Latvia = operational.

Time for leaders to lead.

Plenty justification, too, for an international emergency declaration as per the emergency measures act, which would allow the government/military to bypass procurement rules.

 

[Brad Sallows]

Should be able to manage procurement without another EA invocation. Use ordinary processes first before jumping to extraordinary powers.

 

[Remius]

FMAS, emergency requirements and national security exceptions could all be used. No need for the EA.

 

[Maxman1]

No one gets a gun until they tell us their names.

I've had it up to here with your "rules"!

 

[McG]

My simple way to spend $1B annually: an infrastructure fund to permit remote, mostly northern communities to upgrade roads, bridges and especially airfields.

Channelling it through Defence means there can a some degree of filter to privilege locations that are militarily useful, or to expand beyond community needs (so for example getting Iqaluit an airfield that could support an A330), but using the military as a source of public works funding would be an easy win / win.

In Canada’s north, communication and transportation infrastructure are dual use. There are a lot of community airfields that are not accessible even to C17, which could be an impediment if we needed to surge a capability like ROWPU or radars.

 

[TacticalTea]

Army Fields First Anti-Aircraft Strykers In Just 3 Years - Breaking Defense

The threat of Russian drones, helicopters, and attack jets drove the first fielding to a unit in Germany, but the 8x8 Stryker variant may well find its way to the Pacific as well.

breakingdefense.com

DoD managed to field mobile and armoured GBAD pretty fast last year. Any chance we could do the same with our LAVs? They're even working on fitting them with Directed Energy systems for C-RAM/anti-drone purposes. Something we ought to be doing with our upcoming class of frigates, btw...

 

[TacticalTea]

@FJAG LET ME DREAM GOD DAMNIT

 

[OldSolduer]

In Canada’s north, communication and transportation infrastructure are dual use. There are a lot of community airfields that are not accessible even to C17, which could be an impediment if we needed to surge a capability like ROWPU or radars.

I'm currently starting to work with the RCMP and northern FN doing suicide intervention training. Our first try at it was stymied by a water main break - and the repairman had left already. They are in a pickle and how does it get fixed now?