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Justin Trudeau hints at boosting Canada’s military spending

Hmmmm with all the other areas divested or let rot in the CAF the forces are still in the Parachute business?

I would understand SAR, pilots, aircrew but then jumping infantry is something to think we need? Helicopter airborne I still get( but then the VDV is not covering themselves in glory either) but jumping not so more today. Horse borne cavalry of the 21 century.

Pilots are aircrew.

Aircrew do not train parachuting much if at all.
 
I'd like to get one of those. My sister-in-law's husband had to punch out of a CF-104 when it decided it had flown enough for the day.

🍻
He should have got one when he became a member of the club, not long after the incident Also the Safety Systems tech that packed the chute gets one. I had a childhood friend who was a pilot. Put his VooDoo into the Pacific. Both him and his Scope Wizard as well as the SS tech in my shop got caterpillars.
 
He should have got one when he became a member of the club, not long after the incident Also the Safety Systems tech that packed the chute gets one. I had a childhood friend who was a pilot. Put his VooDoo into the Pacific. Both him and his Scope Wizard as well as the SS tech in my shop got caterpillars.
I'll have to ask him. I never knew this existed.

🍻
 
It's like he follows this forum ;)

More than a decade ago, the army had a plan to rebuild. It went nowhere​

Canada is still standing in line for equipment it planned to buy 12 years ago​


Ottawa is a city of plans. Many plans. Sometimes you find there are plans to have a plan. But as the old Scottish poem says, "The best laid schemes o' mice an' men often go awry."

More than a decade ago, as Canada's war in Afghanistan was grinding to its conclusion, a plan was drawn up to rebuild, refresh and re-equip the army for the future.

It withered and died over several years — a victim of changing defence fashions, budgets, inter-service and inter-departmental bureaucratic warfare and political indifference.

Parts of the plan were resurrected, but in true bureaucratic fashion, those elements have languished somewhere in the dark recesses of the Department of National Defence and Public Services and Procurement Canada.

Several of the key weapons systems in the 2010 plan — ground-based air defence, modern anti-tank systems and long-range artillery — are among the items the Liberal government is now urgently trying to buy, just as other allied nations also scramble to arm themselves against a resurgent Russia.

In November, a senior defence planner told a conference that it could take up to 18 months to land some of the less complex items on Ottawa's wish list. In the meantime, Canadian troops in Latvia staring across the border at a wounded, unpredictable Russian Army will have to make do — or rely on allies.

 
It's like he follows this forum ;)

More than a decade ago, the army had a plan to rebuild. It went nowhere​

Canada is still standing in line for equipment it planned to buy 12 years ago​


Ottawa is a city of plans. Many plans. Sometimes you find there are plans to have a plan. But as the old Scottish poem says, "The best laid schemes o' mice an' men often go awry."

More than a decade ago, as Canada's war in Afghanistan was grinding to its conclusion, a plan was drawn up to rebuild, refresh and re-equip the army for the future.

It withered and died over several years — a victim of changing defence fashions, budgets, inter-service and inter-departmental bureaucratic warfare and political indifference.

Parts of the plan were resurrected, but in true bureaucratic fashion, those elements have languished somewhere in the dark recesses of the Department of National Defence and Public Services and Procurement Canada.

Several of the key weapons systems in the 2010 plan — ground-based air defence, modern anti-tank systems and long-range artillery — are among the items the Liberal government is now urgently trying to buy, just as other allied nations also scramble to arm themselves against a resurgent Russia.

In November, a senior defence planner told a conference that it could take up to 18 months to land some of the less complex items on Ottawa's wish list. In the meantime, Canadian troops in Latvia staring across the border at a wounded, unpredictable Russian Army will have to make do — or rely on allies.

Leslie is right on two counts:
  • "Liberals and Conservatives both have found a neat trick of telling Canadians that they are increasing defence spending, that the capabilities are on the horizon, but then somehow never getting around to fine-tuning the various procurement systems so that the money gets out the door;" and
  • On the issue of readiness and Gen (ret'd )Lawson's contention that Gen Eyre 'was simply doing his job and advocating for the military,' "The world is now much more dangerous than it's been at any other time during my lifetime ... Far more dangerous than the Cold War. So I believe Gen. Eyre's comments are balanced and reasonable, and I think general Lawson is completely and utterly wrong."
But Gen Lawson is correct to note that it is the government of the day, NOT the defence establishment, that decides what Canada needs. Gen Eyre's advice is offered and received ... and then treated as just one - not always either important or even trusted - factor in a complex political equation.

When, as I agree with Andrew Leslie there exists today, a very dangerous strategic situation we hope that we can see something like the first image: when we have a dangerous situation the public becomes aware and will, sooner or later, tell their elected representatives too take action. But, history - not just Canadian history - says that doesn't happen too often. More often we need some "actors" to make the blue arrow into reality (second image).

Now, the leaders who warn of danger are not rare; Churchill was not sui generis; people like him have existed for centuries, for sure, even for millennia. But, very often, they are "voices in the wilderness." What is needed is an amplifier for the voices of the political leader and his team. That is the role of the opinion makers - the bards and minstrels in ancient times, the pamphleteers in the 18th century and the media and the "chattering classes," today.

I'm going to argue that Churchill had that in 1938/39 and again in the 1950s; Truman, in the 1940s, and Eisenhower, St Laurent and Menzies in the 1950s had it, too. I suspect that Canada may have had the right leaders in the early 2000s but there was almost no-one to amplify their voice, and there still isn't. The "chattering classes" are almost totally unified in their reaction to any warnings ... third image.
 

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I doubt the world is more dangerous in military terms. At one time some believed that if the Warsaw Pact chose to attack, we'd be forced to use tactical nuclear weapons within a few days, and still might fail. Now the Warsaw Pact is gone and we believe that Russia is barely capable of invading eastern Ukraine. I'd be surprised if any "war games" situated anywhere resulted in commanders begging for authority to release tactical nukes.

If the world is more dangerous, I'd list the likely contenders for blame as biologists first, AI researchers second, and climate engineering enthusiasts third.
 
I doubt the world is more dangerous in military terms. At one time some believed that if the Warsaw Pact chose to attack, we'd be forced to use tactical nuclear weapons within a few days, and still might fail. Now the Warsaw Pact is gone and we believe that Russia is barely capable of invading eastern Ukraine. I'd be surprised if any "war games" situated anywhere resulted in commanders begging for authority to release tactical nukes.

If the world is more dangerous, I'd list the likely contenders for blame as biologists first, AI researchers second, and climate engineering enthusiasts third.
I think the danger of East Asia exploding into a full blown nuclear war is at least as serious as NATO vs WP in the 1950s and '60s.
 
Leslie is right on two counts:
  • "Liberals and Conservatives both have found a neat trick of telling Canadians that they are increasing defence spending, that the capabilities are on the horizon, but then somehow never getting around to fine-tuning the various procurement systems so that the money gets out the door;" and
  • On the issue of readiness and Gen (ret'd )Lawson's contention that Gen Eyre 'was simply doing his job and advocating for the military,' "The world is now much more dangerous than it's been at any other time during my lifetime ... Far more dangerous than the Cold War. So I believe Gen. Eyre's comments are balanced and reasonable, and I think general Lawson is completely and utterly wrong."
But Gen Lawson is correct to note that it is the government of the day, NOT the defence establishment, that decides what Canada needs. Gen Eyre's advice is offered and received ... and then treated as just one - not always either important or even trusted - factor in a complex political equation.

When, as I agree with Andrew Leslie there exists today, a very dangerous strategic situation we hope that we can see something like the first image: when we have a dangerous situation the public becomes aware and will, sooner or later, tell their elected representatives too take action. But, history - not just Canadian history - says that doesn't happen too often. More often we need some "actors" to make the blue arrow into reality (second image).

Now, the leaders who warn of danger are not rare; Churchill was not sui generis; people like him have existed for centuries, for sure, even for millennia. But, very often, they are "voices in the wilderness." What is needed is an amplifier for the voices of the political leader and his team. That is the role of the opinion makers - the bards and minstrels in ancient times, the pamphleteers in the 18th century and the media and the "chattering classes," today.

I'm going to argue that Churchill had that in 1938/39 and again in the 1950s; Truman, in the 1940s, and Eisenhower, St Laurent and Menzies in the 1950s had it, too. I suspect that Canada may have had the right leaders in the early 2000s but there was almost no-one to amplify their voice, and there still isn't. The "chattering classes" are almost totally unified in their reaction to any warnings ... third image.

As we've noted before - this Canada is not the Canada of even the Cold War, much less WW2 and WW1.

A diminishing portion of the population feels any direct ties to Europe, let alone France and the United Kingdom. A good chunk of our population has arrived here since 1970 and they didn't come here because of the weather. In many cases Canada was seen as the safest place on the planet and a place where money could be made.

Soldiering just doesn't come into it.
 
In many cases Canada was seen as the safest place on the planet and a place where money could be made.
…which will ramp up as it becomes the planet’s first post-nation (vassal) state, just like Fils Trudeau prognosticates…he and his cabal team members just don’t appreciate that they’re going to be handing Canada over to Uncle Sam as the Vassal Overlord…
 
…which will ramp up as it becomes the planet’s first post-nation (vassal) state, just like Fils Trudeau prognosticates…he and his cabal team members just don’t appreciate that they’re going to be handing Canada over to Uncle Sam as the Vassal Overlord…

"Those who beat their swords into plowshares usually end up plowing for those who kept their swords." - Benjamin Franklin

I imagine a lot of the folks who come here seeking refuge and potential prosperity would say the same. My family lost everything in the Old Country first to Mussolini, then the Nazis, then the Allies confiscated what was left because "well everyone here is a Fascist so...." Canada was a place where people were protected and free.

I imagine for as many immigrants that came to Canada to enjoy a seat at that table, there are just as many that know how easily that table gets flipped when you don't have someone there protecting it.

I have met many folks in my years in uniform from former Soviet nations, Warsaw Pact, Iran, the Middle Eaat, Korea, and all over Africa that have held strong the belief that "if not me, who else?"

I find the most reluctant of Canadians when it comes to anything military are those that stand the most to lose from a weakened Canada; the wealthiest and most powerful, who conversely lobby and set policy for these governments that favour stimulus over security.

It's mind boggling to be honest.
 
It is…until you consider they are protecting their interests with constructs that are not directly threatened by potential adversaries’ influences (consider the mix of the Power Corp.’s investments…not in Canada, etc.). The middle class and below Canadians have a dependence to the good faith trust they place in those in power, but the reciprocity of respect to the rank and file of Canadian society by the power brokers/political masters is quite reasonably questioned…
 
The "chattering classes" are almost totally unified in their reaction to any warnings ... third image.
They are too busy talking about Danielle Smith and the Sovereignty Act, Doug Ford and the Green Belt, a myriad of other provincial topics the feds are sticking their fingers into, or staring into the US Craziness to be bothered looking North/East or West at what the world is up to.
 
Written by:
Robert Smol is a retired military intelligence officer who served in the Canadian Armed Forces for more than 20 years. He is completing a PhD in military history.


I would argue that every decision to purchase the Frigates, F18s, and CP 140 were brought about because the current gear (Steamers, Starfighters, and Argus's) were so worn out something had to be done and the absolute minimum (after a lot of kicking and screaming) was acquired.
 
He should have got one when he became a member of the club, not long after the incident Also the Safety Systems tech that packed the chute gets one. I had a childhood friend who was a pilot. Put his VooDoo into the Pacific. Both him and his Scope Wizard as well as the SS tech in my shop got caterpillars.
I've heard back from him and he says that he got a lovely club membership card and a gold caterpillar pin from Irvin Company. He added that he was quite happy to receive them "in person". The landing was not silky smooth and somewhat abrupt as the chute did not have much time to open from the altitude he was at.

:giggle:
 
Tell us more! Did he make it ok? What happened?
He made it just fine and went on to a full career ending up as Comd of 2 CFFTS in Moose Jaw, retired as a colonel and went to the Transportation Safety Board after retirement where he did the investigation into the SwissAir Flt 111 off Peggy's Cove investigation. Still has his hand in a bunch of things and works as a consultant.

🍻
 
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