Jeffrey Deslisle-former RCN, convicted of spying

[bravohit]

hi all,

Maybe someone already answered - but why is he not charged and court martialed under the QR&O's - I know the civi system makes sense in this case, but its almost like CF washed their hands of this guy. Didnt he just comit treason? Cant we just shoot him and be done with it..??

 

[dapaterson]

hi all,

Maybe someone already answered - but why is he not charged and court martialed under the QR&O's - I know the civi system makes sense in this case, but its almost like CF washed their hands of this guy. Didnt he just comit treason? Cant we just shoot him and be done with it..??

1.  Depending on the nature of the charges, there may be solid reasons for proceeding under the criminal vs military justice systems.  In addition, having been charged under one system, he cannot be charged for the same offence under the other.

2.  Captial punishment was abolished in the NDA roughly 20 years ago.

 

[Journeyman]

...but why is he not charged and court martialed under the QR&O's - I know the civi system makes sense in this case, but its almost like CF washed their hands of this guy. Didnt he just comit treason?

So if you understand and agree with why the civilian justice system is the sensible route, why invoke QR&Os?

Cant we just shoot him and be done with it..??

    :

Maybe someone already answered...

And on a personal note, the analytic effort in this whole post, and that particular comment, demonstrates exactly why the Intelligence branch is considered a dumping ground.  :not-again:



Edit: grammatical self-nitpicking.

 

[aesop081]

Cant we just shoot him and be done with it..??

:

No, we can't.

 

[dapaterson]

And on a personal note, the analytic effort in this whole post, and that particular comment, demonstrates exactly why the Intelligence branch is considered a dumping ground.  :not-again:

Wow.  I didn't stop to check the user profile - from the writing, I assumed it was just another 15 year-old igh school drop-out wannabe.

 

[jollyjacktar]

Cant we just shoot him and be done with it..??

Had a peek at the profile too.  I am thunderstruck, what IS it with Squirrels?  I have rubbed shoulders with them many times in the past and to a man they've all been a little "off" somehow, but bloody hell, you should know better than to post things like this.  :facepalm:

 

[garb811]

hi all,

Maybe someone already answered - but why is he not charged and court martialed under the QR&O's - I know the civi system makes sense in this case, but its almost like CF washed their hands of this guy. Didnt he just comit treason? Cant we just shoot him and be done with it..??

For the Military Justice system, you don't charge someone pursuant to QR&Os, you charge them pursuant to the applicable section of the NDA. 

As to why the civilian charges, look at who conducted the investigation and laid the charges.  RCMP do not have the authority to lay charges pursuant to the NDA.  QR&O 107.02 IAW Sect 161, NDA, states:

The following persons may lay charges under the Code of Service Discipline:

a.  a commanding officer;
b.  an officer or non-commissioned member authorized by a commanding officer to lay charges; and
c.  an officer or non-commissioned member of the Military Police assigned to investigative duties with the Canadian Forces National Investigation Service.

 

[bravohit]

Hey all,

Wow... I think I hit a couple of nerves with some of you – and the big guns came out with the secret squirrel jokes...good job guys did not hear those...

I really don’t appreciate the one about “Int dumping ground..."

So let me explain one thing – I know we cannot shoot the guy. I get that part. I realize we also gave up the privilege a long time ago to prosecute our own for treason. I am not a lawyer, however, I found it peculiar how little involvement there appears to be from the Military on this case. That is what I was going after – by asking the question.

I appreciate some of the responses. Some I do not. 

The best one was -  "No we can't"....I think he got the sarcasm.

 

[Journeyman]

.... and the big guns came out with the secret squirrel jokes...

You saw jest in anything posted after yours?  :

I really don’t appreciate the one about “Int dumping ground..."

So you can imagine how little we appreciate the quality of intelligence support we get from such people.

No......on second thought, I doubt if you can.



But at the risk of dragging more inane comments out, you find it "peculiar how little involvement there appears to be from the Military on this case." While I presume that they're quietly supporting the legal teams as required, what pray tell, would you have the CF doing? Daily press conferences? Selling t-shirts? Preemptively burning Int geeks at the stake?
      op:

 

[vonGarvin]

2.  Captial punishment was abolished in the NDA roughly 20 years ago.

September 1999 was when it was removed from the scale of punishments.

But even then, we never just "...shot people and be done with it..."  (That's not for you, dapaterson, it's for that person advocating murder dressed up as capital punishment)

 

[bravohit]

Gents or ladies.
First not advocating murder – get that through your brains - however I am for capital punishment. The gentlemen in question sold out his nation, unless someone disagrees with this statement please enlighten me.

Second, remember he caused grave injury to Canada – while wearing a uniform of the Canadian Armed Forces – so do tell me and explain this to me so a simple and stupid man like me can understand?

Anyone feel free to pipe in to what the punishment to this should be? Everyone is entitled to an opinion? 5 years? 10 years? Maybe mr Journeyman in his wisdom can come up with a suitable punishment for selling out his country?  For me it is quite simple.
Lets put this scenario to you – if I sell out members or the military (your brothers and sisters), and through my actions they come to harm – what is the punishment?? 

As for military involvement – no I was not expecting them to sell shirts and pins like a good regimental kit shop (however it would be a great idea to make some money), however I was expecting something more.... 

 

[vonGarvin]

I realize we also gave up the privilege a long time ago to prosecute our own for treason.

Incorrect.

Check out section 46 of the Criminal Code of Canada.

High treason

46. (1) Every one commits high treason who, in Canada,

(a) kills or attempts to kill Her Majesty, or does her any bodily harm tending to death or destruction, maims or wounds her, or imprisons or restrains her;

(b) levies war against Canada or does any act preparatory thereto; or

(c) assists an enemy at war with Canada, or any armed forces against whom Canadian Forces are engaged in hostilities, whether or not a state of war exists between Canada and the country whose forces they are.

Treason
(2) Every one commits treason who, in Canada,

(a) uses force or violence for the purpose of overthrowing the government of Canada or a province;

(b) without lawful authority, communicates or makes available to an agent of a state other than Canada, military or scientific information or any sketch, plan, model, article, note or document of a military or scientific character that he knows or ought to know may be used by that state for a purpose prejudicial to the safety or defence of Canada;

(c) conspires with any person to commit high treason or to do anything mentioned in paragraph (a);

(d) forms an intention to do anything that is high treason or that is mentioned in paragraph (a) and manifests that intention by an overt act; or

(e) conspires with any person to do anything mentioned in paragraph (b) or forms an intention to do anything mentioned in paragraph (b) and manifests that intention by an overt act.

 

[vonGarvin]

Gents or ladies.
First not advocating murder – get that through your brains - however I am for capital punishment. The gentlemen in question sold out his nation, unless someone disagrees with this statement please enlighten me.

Second, remember he caused grave injury to Canada – while wearing a uniform of the Canadian Armed Forces – so do tell me and explain this to me so a simple and stupid man like me can understand?

Anyone feel free to pipe in to what the punishment to this should be? Everyone is entitled to an opinion? 5 years? 10 years? Maybe mr Journeyman in his wisdom can come up with a suitable punishment for selling out his country?  For me it is quite simple.
Lets put this scenario to you – if I sell out members or the military (your brothers and sisters), and through my actions they come to harm – what is the punishment?? 

As for military involvement – no I was not expecting them to sell shirts and pins like a good regimental kit shop (however it would be a great idea to make some money), however I was expecting something more....

You advocating killing him and "...being done with it."

hi all,

Maybe someone already answered - but why is he not charged and court martialed under the QR&O's - I know the civi system makes sense in this case, but its almost like CF washed their hands of this guy. Didnt he just comit treason? Cant we just shoot him and be done with it..??

As for what he did, he is only alleged to have broken the law.  He has not been convicted of anything.

So, if he were charged and convicted of high treason or treason, how should he be punished?

Punishment for high treason
47. (1) Every one who commits high treason is guilty of an indictable offence and shall be sentenced to imprisonment for life.

Marginal noteunishment for treason
(2) Every one who commits treason is guilty of an indictable offence and liable

(a) to be sentenced to imprisonment for life if he is guilty of an offence under paragraph 46(2)(a), (c) or (d);

(b) to be sentenced to imprisonment for life if he is guilty of an offence under paragraph 46(2)(b) or (e) committed while a state of war exists between Canada and another country; or

(c) to be sentenced to imprisonment for a term not exceeding fourteen years if he is guilty of an offence under paragraph 46(2)(b) or (e) committed while no state of war exists between Canada and another country.

Pretty much the above.

But it's all hypothetical.

 

[Journeyman]

Second, remember he caused grave injury to Canada – while wearing a uniform of the Canadian Armed Forces – so do tell me and explain this to me so a simple and stupid man like me can understand?

The question mark suggests that you believe this to be a question of some sort. It's not, and I hesitate to ask what "this" is that you need explained for fear it will merely cause you to post more of the same.

Maybe mr Journeyman in his wisdom can come up with a suitable punishment for selling out his country? 

Not for me to say, even if I had any particular interest or expertise.

As for military involvement – no I was not expecting them to sell shirts and pins like a good regimental kit shop (however it would be a great idea to make some money), however I was expecting something more....

So, at the end of your rambling diatribe, you get to the crux of the question asked of you. You completely ignore the jurisdictional mandate being a non-CF responsibility, and respond with a deeply thought-out expectation of "something more" from the military.


Analytic acumen at its finest -- nope, not a dumping ground at all.

 

[Good2Golf]

Bravohit, since communication clarity in on-line venues can be difficult, and the writer's intent is often misconstrued, on-line sarcasm is traditionally implied with the use of smilies ( : ) or mock BBS tags, such as [sarcasm]...insert sarcastic comment here...[/sarcasm].

Since you added neither element to indicate sarcasm, those reading inferred that you may in fact have meant exactly what your words said.

Perhaps if you had been more clear in electronically indicating your sarcasm, you might not have garnered as much "interest" to your original statement as you did.

Food for thought.


Regards
G2G

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Whatever the case, bravohit, you'll stop trying and convicting this guy in the open forums.

That's what we have courts for and he's entitled to his days there, without your armchair quarterbacking of the case.

Milnet.ca Staff

 

[observor 69]

As I don't see this article mentioned:

Navy spy scandal a dilemma for Canada-Russia relations

"The New York-based publication recently quoted U.S. intelligence sources saying Delisle's breach in communications secrets was roughly as big in volume as the notorious U.S. data loss to WikiLeaks."


http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/2012/05/22/pol-cp-delisle-navy-spy-russia.html

 

[The Bread Guy]

Computer problems are being blamed for the most recent adjournment in the case of a Canadian naval intelligence officer accused of spying for Russia.

On (13 Jun 12), Mike Taylor, the lawyer for Sub-Lt. Jeffrey Delisle, was granted a three-week postponement. Taylor asked for the adjournment so he could continue his review of the hundreds of documents making up the Crown’s case against his client.

“A lot of the disclosure I received was on an ... external hard drive and I had a difficult time getting it open because of the software that was being used,” Taylor said after the brief court appearance.

“I just had to get the assistance of the technical people with the federal crown in Ottawa and locally. We’ve got it sorted out but ... it’s just going to take some more time to get through it.”

Besides the information on the hard drive, Taylor said the Crown is still releasing more documents to him and many of those documents were vetted for security reasons by the various agencies involved in investigating the case ....

Halifax Chronicle-Herald, 13 Jun 12

 

[cupper]

Here's a question for any legal staff out there:

At what point would the defendant's lawyer have to be read into or cleared for access to some of the information he would need to receive in preparation for his client's defense.

And how would they go about dealing with those portions that even his own lawyers could not be cleared for?

 

[PMedMoe]

Naval officer accused of espionage opts for jury trial

Article Link

A Canadian naval officer charged with spying has elected to be tried by jury in the Nova Scotia Supreme Court.

Sub.-Lt. Jeffrey Delisle appeared in court Tuesday morning. He also asked for a preliminary hearing.

Lawyers are to return to court Wednesday to determine a date.

Earlier this month, Delisle had been expected to enter a plea on two charges under the Security of Information Act and a criminal charge of breach of trust, but his court appearance was put off in one of the many delays in his case.

Delisle was working at Trinity, the navy's intelligence centre in Halifax, when he was arrested Jan. 13. He was denied bail and has remained in custody.

More at link