It could never happen here, could it?-Canada a Target?

[Danjanou]

[quote ] As for the Ivory tower, I think some people are still living in Fall-out shelters from the Cold war. [/quote]

But it's comfortable and I had cable installed. 8)

 

[R0B]

Reply to para 1: Cobbler happens to be Australian, and so am I! As citizens here, I am ******* sure we know more about this country and the regions politics than you do, considering you gather rather extreme leftist views and only seem to mollycoddle those thoughts.

Congratulations. As Australian citizens, I take it the both of you were born with PhDs in Australian History, South East Asian studies, International Relations, Peace and Conflict Studies, etc... So I won't argue with your expertise.

Newsflash, being born in Australia doesn't make you and expert on Australia. I'm not an expert on Australia, but it would unfortunately seem that I needn't know much about racism in Australia to know more about it than you do. I haven't tried to debate Australian politics, Australian social norms, how to catch a kangaroo, etc..., so don't accuse me of pretending to know more about Australia than you do. I most certainly don't, but I've never claimed to. Do you know more about racism in Australia than I do? It's quite clear you do not, because it appears you've tacitly agreed with Cobbler, who seems to think it doesn't exist. It most certainly does, and minorities feel it harder in your country than they do almost anywhere else.

Reply to para 2. WTF do you know about East Timor and Australia, and what happened back in 1975? Do you know of the Australian journalists who were murdered by DIRECT tank fire? Their deaths were actually recorded on film. We have deeper connections to that region which go back to the Sparrow Force days and beyond.

I'm not going to waste my time telling you what I know so you can say I've received all my information from Lenin himself. This is what I've written about Timor; let me know where you object:

-The US and Australia looked the other way when Indonesia invaded Timor.
-What did Australia do when 1/5 of the island's population was massacred? Nothing.
-The US didn't even stop selling arms to Indonesia until after the end of the Cold War, and even then, it did so against the wishes of the President.

Do you dispute any of those points? I doubt it, you probably only hold them in contempt because they've come from me.

In 1999, Australia lead the invasion, and one just can't do someting that big on a moments notice. After what had gone in in the months previous we acted as fast as one could. So, I suggest you shut your pie-hole in regards to things which you have only read about on the INet, and never participated in.

Yeah, I get all my information from Pravda.ru. I'm not making things up. I try to read peer-edited reviews from authoritative academic journals, and base any comments I make upon facts taken from those sources. Those sources, I should add, are more or less indisputable, and are generally held by governments and academic institutions to be accurate histories of what occurred.
And what happened in 1999 doesn't really concern this argument. Sure, Australia came to rescue its Timorese brothers, but only after two and a half decades of oppression and murder. Australia and the global community didn't act anywhere near as fast as it could, it took its time. Unless, that is, if you consider 24-years to be a quick response.

With the ongoing shyte spewing from ROB's mouth, I suggest we simply ignore him, as it's obvious he wants an audience (just read every post he has made and decide for yourself). Simply put, you can't win an argument with an idiot because he has the experience, and will win everytime, and we don't get anywhere except lowering ourselves to his standard.

I have had enough of this idiot and I predict a meltdown is forthcoming, so lets sit back and watch the fireworks.

Do you have to insult me to try to convince yourself that I'm wrong?

Now you're professing to know more about Australia and it's workings than our Australian members? Must be hard to keep on top of all that while expanding upon your knowledge as the World Terrorism SME. You are one arrogant young man.

Being an Australian citizen doesn't automatically imbue you with knowledge of that country, and I've never claimed to know more about Australia than any other member here. It is likely, however, that I know more about racism and xenophobia in Australia than the majority of Australian members here, because I study that sort of thing.

LOL what? :

so because canadians vote liberal and NDP, that makes them pacifists? Sure, makes perfect sense. And secondly, many more canadians vote Conservative, or even the Alliance before the NDP.... whatever.

It doesn't matter that more Canadians vote Conservative than the NDP, and Canadian Alliance hasn't existed for two years. What matters is that more people vote Liberal, NDP, Green, etc... than they do for the Conservatives and parties that share similar ideas in regards to militarism or whatever you'd like to call it. I never said Canadians are pacifist because the vote NDP or Liberal, so I don't see why you'd make that assumption. Logically, people wouldn't be pacifists because they vote for either of the two parties, but would rather vote for one of those two parties because they are pacifists. Regardless, I make no such claim, I'm just trying to point out that the left is stronger than the center. You don't seem to understand what I've wrote. Read it again.

0 mil exp - So then you admit you have no idea what youre talking about in terms to the military?

More or less, yes.

What political objectives are you talking about? Is the Al-Qaeda party trying to win power in england and america then?
The only consistent pattern in their attacks, is that theyre killing westerners, and attempting to further the "jihad".

You want proof of the transit system being shadowed? Well I happened to be in the city of Toronto during the summer when the arrests were made, so im certain finding an article on it can't be that difficult, so ill look. And since you cant take someones word for something and would rather send them on a proof mission, i think you should prove every single statement you make, from this point forward.

They're not out to just kill westerners. That's just rhetoric western governments have been pushing to alienate citizens from the terrorist's causes and keep voters from analyzing foreign policy.
If they were actually out to kill a lot of people, their best target would be some major sporting event. But no, they're attacking economic and political targets, instead.

I happen to live in Toronto, and I read the newspaper everyday. I don't recall hearing about this story. That's not to say it didn't happen, because I obviously can't keep track of everything that's happening in the news, but you're missing the point. I don't doubt that arrests were made, but I'm wondering why, and with what evidence. Gathering information, for one, is far from blowing up the TTC, and doesn't mean they were going to blow up the TTC, either. I wanted to see the articles not because I doubt they exist, but because I doubt they say what you've inferred from them. And guess what...

Did you actually read the articles to which you've posted links? NOWHERE does it say that terrorists were shadowing any Canadian transit system. See, you just made that up. It says that one Arab man kissed an Arab book, placed it in a briefcase and ran away. Did the briefcase blow up? No, so why do you think he's a terrorist? Some other guy was hiding his camera as he filmed. Why? Maybe it's because you're not allowed to film anything on TTC property without a permit, and TTC employees will caution you if they see you. So perhaps he was hiding from employees looking to exercise their authority and tell someone what to do? Maybe, he was pretending to be a terrorist so he could be arrested, allege racism and sue the government for $1,000,000. He is suing, and guess what else? The government released him. It seems they don't have any evidence to keep him locked up.
This is just modern McCarthyism.

I thought it was fairly common knowledge around here that terror cells were active all over Canada, and that the transit systems were being analyzed...

It is common knowledge that there are terrorist organizations in Canada. I've never disputed that.

Ive voted Liberal before, I guess i want the troops out of afghanistan?

I never said that, either. You've completely missed the point of my comparison.

"We have never said that we are not at threat because in fact, we're one of five nations that were named by al Qaeda and therefore that is why we take these kinds of events very, very seriously." - Public Safety Minister, Anne McLellan

Nice quote. Here's another FROM THE EXACT SAME ARTICLE.

"Even though there is no present threat against Canada, the prime minister inisted, "we have to be vigilant.""

Rob, like most of us here I try to stay within my arcs. I wouldn't claim to know more about Australia then members living and serving there, anymore than I'd claim to be an SME on weapons and ballistics over one of our real SMEs in that area.

Likewise.

Based on frequent travel and business in both Cuba and Mexico ( as well as elsewhere in Latin America) in the past 12 odd years I can assure you that the opinion of the average peon and/or companero in regards to their northern neighbours may surprise you.

Perhaps you may actually want to visit these places to get your facts rather than from your tattered copy of "Young Socialists Happy Happy Joy Joy Warm Fuzzy Hugs View of the World".

If I'm mistaken and you've actually traveled to either of these places may I suggest that next time you move farther a field than the swim up bar at your walled all-inclusive resort to gather your information.

I've traveled extensively around Mexico, and South-East Asia, and I've been to Cuba on three occasions. I tourist and resort areas, as I suppose you agree, the locals tend to be very friendly, and while natives from outside such areas don't tend to be as inviting, I didn't get the feeling that they were hostile towards Americans or Canadians, or towards the United States or Canada.

And, I'm most certainly not a socialist.

How so? How was Spain a major target? We are a target because we are a Western country. And being one of the US's top (still..right?) trading partners is certainly inviting an attack that could disrupt our (and to a smaller extent their) economy. Just an idea. Although I'm more worried about terrorists using Canada as a base to attack the US.

Terrorists probably use Canada as a base to attack the US. That alone is among the best reasons why they won't attack Canada.
How was Spain a major target? They had troops in Iraq, the public did not support this, and fear of terrorist attacks was cited as one of the major reasons why voters in pre-election polls had decided to vote for the socialist opposition. Some terrorist probably figured that a terrorist attack would increase public fear, and result in further support for the socialists, who would withdraw troops from Iraq and pass a bunch of stupid laws. If this was the case, the terrorists were correct, because the opposition won by a landslide.
Also, there's no proof that Al Qaeda contributed anything to the Madrid bombing. It's quite likely that the terrorists acted independently of Al Qaeda and Osama bin Laden.

Key word is yet. But you should be safe up there in your ivory tower, so why worry?

So what kind of proof/evidence should we wait for? Dead commuters in Montreal/Toronto/Ottawa (which I take a vested interest in, my family uses public transit to get to work and school)? Would that be enough 'proof' for you?

I never said we should wait for any proof. Are terrorists trying to attack Canada? I say, no. But that shouldn't influence what the RCMP and CSIS does. We should probably invest more money in both those organizations, stipulating that they use that money to investigate Islamic fundaamentalism.

Yet. Canada is yet to be attacked. In 10-years, that same statement will ring as true as it does today.

You keep claiming that an attack on Canada would be a setback to AQ. Please elabourate. They are not necessarily out looking to kill as many westerners as possible (IMHO), but to set the ground (by making attacks on transit systems etc) to actually terrorize western society enough so that we start making bad decisions which gives them more ammo to start the real jihad. Maybe my tin foil hat fell off today, but I think that the real 'war on(with) terror' has yet to begin.

Canada is a gateway for terrorists bent on attacking the United States. It serves as a headquarters for many Islamic groups that have been accused of terrorism, and Canada's legal system does not allow the government to effectively police and investigate terrorists. Canada's immigration and refugee laws are sub par, and multicultural communities allow terrorists to blend in seamlessly. Canada's involvement in the war on terrorism is minor, and it's relationship with the United States under the Martin administration have been poor. A terrorist attack would likely promote public support for withdrawing the troops from Afghanistan, but this is unlikely to happen, and without public support, the government is unlikely to increase the number of troops it has in Afghanistan, so the entire Afghanistan situation would not likely be affected much. On the other hand, Canada would probably restrict immigration and refugee claimants, and increase funding for counter-terrorism activities, compromising Canada as a base of operations.
Also, any terrorist attack requires a lot of time and money. Attacking Canada when it wouldn't be much harder to attack the United States would be a waste of valuable resources.
A lot of nations hold Canada in high regard as a peacekeeping nation, and believe the Canadian Forces to be very weak, so attacking Canada wouldn't do much in terms of bolstering support among Muslims. On the other hand, any attack on the "Great Satan" proves that America, despite its strength, is not invincible.
So, not only would attacking Canada be a waste of time and money, it would be counter-productive for terrorists within Canada.

Its easier for Cubans and Mexicans to sneak into America (and Canada to a lesser extent) so that they can take advantage of our system. Its harder for Indonesians. If your jealous of someone/something and you can't take the thing you are jealous of, you begin hate it instead.

A lot of South East Asians make it to Australia every year. A lot of Arabs and Middle Easterners also make it to Australia every year, via Indonesia, because it's not hard to get in, but if they catch you, they send you to a concentration camp in the desert. They don't hate Australia because it's hard to get in. If they do, I suppose they've been lying and have just been saying "racism" instead to confound researchers.

Exactly. On Sept 10, 2001, do you think Americans were thinking that a terrorist attack was imminent? It's not like Al-Queda will call the PM and say, "ok, we're going to attack this target on this day, at this time...be ready!" :

No, but America had been attacked by terrorists in the recent past, and intelligence reports clearly indicated the terrorist were actively planning attacks.

What's your point, anyways?

If you're saying "we should prepare," I don't disagree with you, and you would have realized that if you had taken the time to read everything instead of just contributing a useless post.
Canada isn't going to get attacked by terrorists. I say that with as much certainty as I say "I'm not going to get into a car accident." I still wear seatbelts.

In any event, the fact that Americans didn't know on September 10th that the events of September 11th would unfold the next day does nothing to prove any point whatsoever.


Sorry for the long post. I'm trying to address everyone so that none of my detractors can accuse me of escaping their supposed "issues."

 

[career_radio-checker]

Man, you just took 20 minutes of my life away and I want them back!  

 

[Infanteer]

:boring:

So what are you trying to say?

 

[Jungle]

Being an Australian citizen doesn't automatically imbue you with knowledge of that country, and I've never claimed to know more about Australia than any other member here

Earlier, you posted this:

I almost certainly know more about this than you do

Listen kid, there are a certain number of things you cannot buy or study for; EXPERIENCE is one of them, and you obviously lack in that dept. Travelling in tourist resorts does not count as experience of the real world... Now remove your foot from your mouth, then STFU !!!

 

[Pte. Bloggins]

He goes to U of T, what do you expect?

I wonder if I've argued with him before, or at least laughed at him when he makes these genius statements in class.

 

[George Wallace]

This article is a couple of years old, but it points out the extreme possibilities of anyone, even a trusted friend, being a terrorist.  When Intelligence personnel do their jobs right, there will be no bombings.  It is only when the Police, Intelligence Agencies, etc. are unable to fully do their jobs that we will see any terrorist attacks occurring.  Does that mean that there are no possibilities, or in fact have been no attempts to date, of a terrorist attack in Canada?  No!. It means that there quite likely can be, but if our Intelligence people do their jobs properly, and stop it, you will never hear about it.  rob is naive to spout his views from academia.  He truly doesn't have any inkling of how many dangerous people and places there are out there. 

http://www.estripes.com/article.asp?section=104&article=9926&archive=true

 

[jmackenzie_15]

:boring:

So what are you trying to say?

"Because I go to University and have been endowed with partial knowledge, that can only mean that I am a person of higher learning and intellect, therefor making me the SME on everything.I am right, and you are wrong, just because."

I also like how he attempted to call BS on my comment about terrorists shadowing public transit systems in major canadian cities, and wanteed proof... I provide it, he completely ignores it.

Thats the spirit.... when everybody starts to prove you wrong, just pretend it never happened and carry on!

 

[1feral1]

Newsflash, being born in Australia doesn't make you and expert on Australia"issues."

But a snotty nosed 20yr old uni student does. You've created 12 posts of bullshyte, and have set a new precident in crap, and have succeded in wasting bandwidth on here, and making a fool of yourself, and any reputation you had, has been freshly flushed down the toilet.

I suggest you quit uni, and become a politician, or better, become an Australian citizen, and work out of our Jakarta enbassy. You'll save Australia for sure :

What a wanker   - Your 1st lesson in Australian slang, and I sure you can figure that out, kid.

 

[George Wallace]

But a snotty nosed 20yr old uni student does.

and in Toronto too!

 

[R0B]

What's my point? It's that Canada isn't going to get attacked by terrorists.

Listen kid, there are a certain number of things you cannot buy or study for; EXPERIENCE is one of them, and you obviously lack in that dept. Travelling in tourist resorts does not count as experience of the real world... Now remove your foot from your mouth, then STFU !!!

Here's what I said:

"I've never claimed to know more about Australia than any other member here"

"I almost certainly know more about this than you do"

I said I know more about "this," not Australia, and by "this," I was CLEARLY referring to racism in Australia. Pay attention.

He goes to U of T, what do you expect?

I wonder if I've argued with him before, or at least laughed at him when he makes these genius statements in class.

What's wrong with UofT?
You honestly think that Canada is going to get attacked by terrorists? What's your major?

This article is a couple of years old, but it points out the extreme possibilities of anyone, even a trusted friend, being a terrorist.  When Intelligence personnel do their jobs right, there will be no bombings.  It is only when the Police, Intelligence Agencies, etc. are unable to fully do their jobs that we will see any terrorist attacks occurring.  Does that mean that there are no possibilities, or in fact have been no attempts to date, of a terrorist attack in Canada?  No!. It means that there quite likely can be, but if our Intelligence people do their jobs properly, and stop it, you will never hear about it.  rob is naive to spout his views from academia.  He truly doesn't have any inkling of how many dangerous people and places there are out there. 

Be sure to report any suspicious activity to the kommisar's office. When the police or intelligence foils a terrorist plot, you'll hear about it.

I also like how he attempted to call BS on my comment about terrorists shadowing public transit systems in major canadian cities, and wanteed proof... I provide it, he completely ignores it.

Thats the spirit.... when everybody starts to prove you wrong, just pretend it never happened and carry on!

I knew you must have read something, but I assumed that you probably misinterpreted the articles completely. And I was right, you did. Nowhere in the article does it say that terrorists were shadowing the public transit system. Where did you even get that from?

But a snotty nosed 20yr old uni student does. You've created 12 posts of bullshyte, and have set a new precident in crap, and have succeded in wasting bandwidth on here, and making a fool of yourself, and any reputation you had, has been freshly flushed down the toilet.

I suggest you quit uni, and become a politician, or better, become an Australian citizen, and work out of our Jakarta enbassy. You'll save Australia for sure :

What a wanker  - Your 1st lesson in Australian slang, and I sure you can figure that out, kid.

The fact that I'm a university student shouldn't even figure into this debate. What should matter is the fact that I'm going by information your beloved sword-banning government regards as authoritative.

I'd like to give you a lesson in Canadian/American slang but I figure you're the type of hypocrite who would ban me for it.

 

[George Wallace]

Well rob, with your last post you have confirmed my suspicions; you are an idiot.

 

[GO!!!]

Instead of the plus/minus system, perhaps a "dunce" avatar would be more fitting.

What's your major?

What does that have to do with anything, you twit?

I would say (conservatively) that a third of the regular posters on this site are students, or have post graduate degrees. Many of them have valuable insights from a combination of experience and formal education. I would say, judging by the quality of your writing and skills of persuasion, that you are in second year - maybe, and you are arguing on national security issues, poorly, with posters with lifetimes of relevant experience.

There is a lesson here, one that I learned the hard way too, it is accurately represented with this quote;

I have often come to regret my speech, never my silence.

So if you know something, and can provide a credible source for it, go ahead, but if you are just sounding off for the sake of getting a response, expect to be muzzled.

 

[a_majoor]

At least as a student at U of T he will have a far better than average chance of seeing first hand the results when his prediction is proven false.

Perhaps he uses mass transit?

The only reason the Jihadis havn't struck yet is Canada offers many advantages as a staging, training and fundraising area. If I were to make a prediction, they will try to coordinate their strike to coincide with one in the Great Satan, both for maximum impact and since they know any attacks staged from Canada will elicit a huge counter reaction.

 

[Infanteer]

You honestly think that Canada is going to get attacked by terrorists? What's your major?

???   Don't be a tool - you'd be hardpressed to keep up if you wanted to hang the academic credentials (and real world experience) wang out around here.

What's my point? It's that Canada isn't going to get attacked by terrorists.

Do you have any proof to support this conclusion considering all the evidence to date seems to indicate the opposite.

The threats to Canada have clearly been highlighted.   Osama bin Laden has named us specifically in his messages to his followers in the Islamic Insurgency - writings by experts such as Marc Sageman and Micheal Sheuer have clearly layed out the fact that these men are dedicated and cunning enemies who will do what they say.   We have been fortunate to date to avoid an attack here - most likely because we are not a high payoff target, but in case you didn't notice, we have soldiers in Dar al-Islam which sets us up as a target (like Spain or Britain) by those who adhere to a global Salafist ideology.   Ressam himself considered Canadian targets and the Madrid bombers had information on the Montreal underground in their hardrive.   Montreal was, infact, for quite a period on of the key international nodes of Al Qa'ida (before it moved to London) and a central base for the Mahgrib cell or Al Qa'ida's network.   As well, you'd have to do alot to convince anyone that our favorite family, the Khadrs, was living a quiet and neutral life here while supporting jihad abroad.

Pull your head out of the sand - everything the enemy has said and done shows us to be a target of oppurtunity.

 

[cobbler]

-The US and Australia looked the other way when Indonesia invaded Timor.
-What did Australia do when 1/5 of the island's population was massacred? Nothing.

And did Canada, the UK, New Zealand, China, India, Belgium, etc do anything?
And when conflict broke out in 1999, who was the only country to put its hand up and do something, Australia! We were a bees **** away from all out war with Indonesia.

Yes 1975 was not a proud moment, but nobody else did anything, and in 1999 we had the most to lose, yet we still were the only ones to stop talking and start doing, the UN originally wanting nothing to do with it, so it was Australia who put together, lead, and contributed over 60% of forces to INTERFET. I am grateful for help from nations like Canada, very grateful, but none of it would have happened unless Australia became active.

I am not going to have somebody from ANY other country try and dig the stick in to me about Timor.

Do you know more about racism in Australia than I do? It's quite clear you do not, because it appears you've tacitly agreed with Cobbler, who seems to think it doesn't exist. It most certainly does, and minorities feel it harder in your country than they do almost anywhere else.

I said I know more about "this," not Australia, and by "this," I was CLEARLY referring to racism in Australia. Pay attention.

Well you most certainly do NOT know more about racism and cultural integration in Australia than me.
I grew up in one of the most multicultural and ethnically diverse suburbs in the country. I have freinds who are Aussie, English, Macedonian, Albanian, Lebanese, Chinese, Thai, Vietnamese, Croation, Filipino, and Serb. When it comes to looking at racism in this country I have truly lived that lesson. On top of this I take a keen interest in looking at the larger picture.
The  minorities who live where I grew up do not feel it harder than anywhere else. It is a working class neighbourhood, so not the flashiest of areas, but everybody, no matter what race lives comfortably, safely, and peacefully. Immigrants and their children are totally accepted into the community. The only hints of racism were freindly jokes between mates, and we all copped our fair share, all was lighthearted and everybody is proud of their origins.
I don't know if you have ever been to Australia, i doubt it, and if you were here I doubt you ventured any further than Sydney Harbour. But you clearly have no understanding of Australia's cultural environment.
You do not know more than racism in this country than me

---
On another note, you try and accuse me of rhetoric, then in your next paragraph you claim Australia has "Concentration camps".
Now i didn't want to go off topic, but that is such a serious and innaccurate comment that it must be rebutted.
We have immigration detention centres for people who enter the country illegally and refuse to leave, just like every other western world country.

If an American comes here illegally and refuses to take the next available flight home, then he is sent to one.
Likewise if somebody comes illegally on a dangerous boat, then they are sent there.
Of course some claim thast they are refugees, they may well be, but they still come here liggeally and must be processed before being allowed in to the nation, they are jumping in the line in front of others who wish to come here.
If they are refugess then they can claim asylum in ANY one of dozens of nations they pass through before arriving in Indonesia. But they do not. One in Indonesia they pay thousands of American dollars (I could do with that kind of money) each to board an unsafe boat, and cross shark and crocodile infested seas to attempt to enter Australia illegally. By doing this they endanger their children, the RAN has had to save hundreds over the last 5 years from sinking boats, sadly hundreds mroe have drowned.

Once caught they are offered a flight home, if they say no then they are placed in detention during the processing phase of their application.

Now we have to control the people who enter our country. Especially with the diseases and unsavoury characters about in the world. If they are true refugess then they should claim refugee status in the first of many safe countries they pass through before taking the irresponsible journey to enter Australia illegally.

It may be easy for you to judge in Canada. No risk of having thousands of unprocessed people sailing into your waters. Buit it must be done, and frankly i feel no sympathy when they get caught, neither do my ethnic freinds whose parents had to come here legally to escape the wars in former Youguslavia.

The detention centres are not "concentration camps", they are compounds where illegal immigrants are held whilst our authorities can process their requests. If they (illegals) did things by the book then their would be no need, but instead of applying for UN refugee status where appropriate they came all this way, dangerously, iresspinsibly, illlegally, and wasting australia's taxpayers dollars. They are provided with food, beds, TV, computers, internet, sports grounds and equipment, which is what they are entitled to whilst being processed. They are not exterminated like in a concentration camp.

Frankly I would like an apology from you regarding you concentration camp claims, they were false, unbackable, serious, and way off the mark and have no place in discussions such as this.

Sorry everybody else fro straying off topic, but that was a serious claim by ROB, and i was not going to take it.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

No problem, thanks for pointing that out. I was obviously just skimming ROB's post, as I have read all that before, and would have called him on it at the time.

MOD EDIT: ROB, show us some proof of these "concentration camps" [ do you really know what that means?]or I will start the warning process on you.

 

[Jungle]

We have immigration detention centres for people who enter the country illegally and refuse to leave.../...The detention centres are not "concentration camps",they are compounds where illegal immigrants are held whilst our authorities can process their requests. If they (illegals) did things by the book then their would be no need, but instead of applying for UN refugee status where appropriate they came all this way, dangerously, iresspinsibly, illlegally, and wasting australia's taxpayers dollars. They are provided with food, beds, TV, computers, internet, sports grounds and equipment, which is what they are entitled to whilst being processed. They are not exterminated like in a concentration camp.

We have the same thing here; but Rob doesn't know this, because he's too busy being right !!
http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/newsroom/factsheets/2004/0311ArrestsDetentions-e.html

 

[Infanteer]

R0B...go away. You cannot expect to be taken seriously here when:

a) You claim to know more then others who live and work and experience the country in which you claim to have expert knowledge.
b) You have you head stuck so far up your rear you...you get the idea.
c) Your spouting the very same wishy-washy socialist everyone-get-along junk that people on this site hate with a passion, and have already disproved. And;
d) Your acting like the typical ivory-tower dwelling rose-tinted goggle wearing student that gives the few of us students who don't talk out of their arse a bad name (well, I do sometimes but usually by mistake).

Don't take that line.  "Left-wing" is junk - it makes you nothing but "right wing".  Same with socialist, ivory tower, student.  They do nothing to further the argument.

Everyone,

If you have nothing to offer except ad hominem attacks which reduce the quality of the thread, then stay off and let those who are interested in considering the facts and logic of the issue discuss the matter at hand.  Signal:Noise people....

 

[R0B]

Well rob, with your last post you have confirmed my suspicions; you are an idiot.

Thanks, George. I'm too kind to post my opinion of you.

Instead of the plus/minus system, perhaps a "dunce" avatar would be more fitting.
What does that have to do with anything, you twit?

Was that question even directed to you? It's interesting that you would assume to know why I even asked such a question, but you're incapable of knowing what I'm thinking, so don't bother trying, moron.
I asked Bloggins about her major because she insinuated that she and I go to the same school.

At least as a student at U of T he will have a far better than average chance of seeing first hand the results when his prediction is proven false.

Perhaps he uses mass transit?

The only reason the Jihadis havn't struck yet is Canada offers many advantages as a staging, training and fundraising area. If I were to make a prediction, they will try to coordinate their strike to coincide with one in the Great Satan, both for maximum impact and since they know any attacks staged from Canada will elicit a huge counter reaction.

When my prediction is proven false? You should use "if" instead of "when."

???   Don't be a tool - you'd be hardpressed to keep up if you wanted to hang the academic credentials (and real world experience) wang out around here.

I asked two separate questions, why are you trying to combine the two together?
I don't really have any academic credentials; I'm still working towards my undergraduate degree. But, I've never claimed to have academic credentials, so I don't see why you'd bring it up. I've only referenced my studies in regards to racism in Australia.

Do you have any proof to support this conclusion considering all the evidence to date seems to indicate the opposite.

The threats to Canada have clearly been highlighted.   Osama bin Laden has named us specifically in his messages to his followers in the Islamic Insurgency - writings by experts such as Marc Sageman and Micheal Sheuer have clearly layed out the fact that these men are dedicated and cunning enemies who will do what they say.   We have been fortunate to date to avoid an attack here - most likely because we are not a high payoff target, but in case you didn't notice, we have soldiers in Dar al-Islam which sets us up as a target (like Spain or Britain) by those who adhere to a global Salafist ideology.   Ressam himself considered Canadian targets and the Madrid bombers had information on the Montreal underground in their hardrive.   Montreal was, infact, for quite a period on of the key international nodes of Al Qa'ida (before it moved to London) and a central base for the Mahgrib cell or Al Qa'ida's network.   As well, you'd have to do alot to convince anyone that our favorite family, the Khadrs, was living a quiet and neutral life here while supporting jihad abroad.

Pull your head out of the sand - everything the enemy has said and done shows us to be a target of oppurtunity.

Canada's no target. You don't know why Montreal information was on the computer, and you cannot claim to know why it was there. I don't know what standards you have for "evidence," but they're obviously incredibly low. No civilized nation would ever indict someone for merely having that kind of information on their computer.

Anything Osama bin Laden says should be taken with a few grains of salt. He's said a lot of things, and he's made a lot of claims. How long has it been since he declared Canada a target? It's been a while, and still, nothing. It's not going to happen.

Remember that I'm saying that terrorists won't attack Canada, and not that there aren't any terrorists in Canada.

And did Canada, the UK, New Zealand, China, India, Belgium, etc do anything?
And when conflict broke out in 1999, who was the only country to put its hand up and do something, Australia! We were a bees **** away from all out war with Indonesia.

No one did anything. The only reason Australia came to "help" in 1999 was realpolitik.

Yes 1975 was not a proud moment, but nobody else did anything, and in 1999 we had the most to lose, yet we still were the only ones to stop talking and start doing, the UN originally wanting nothing to do with it, so it was Australia who put together, lead, and contributed over 60% of forces to INTERFET. I am grateful for help from nations like Canada, very grateful, but none of it would have happened unless Australia became active.

I am not going to have somebody from ANY other country try and dig the stick in to me about Timor.

It's good that Australia did what it did, but I hope you don't think Australia's motivation was to come and save the East Timorese people. If you don't already know about the Timor Gap Treaty, read a little about it.

Well you most certainly do NOT know more about racism and cultural integration in Australia than me.
I grew up in one of the most multicultural and ethnically diverse suburbs in the country. I have freinds who are Aussie, English, Macedonian, Albanian, Lebanese, Chinese, Thai, Vietnamese, Croation, Filipino, and Serb. When it comes to looking at racism in this country I have truly lived that lesson. On top of this I take a keen interest in looking at the larger picture.
The   minorities who live where I grew up do not feel it harder than anywhere else. It is a working class neighbourhood, so not the flashiest of areas, but everybody, no matter what race lives comfortably, safely, and peacefully. Immigrants and their children are totally accepted into the community. The only hints of racism were freindly jokes between mates, and we all copped our fair share, all was lighthearted and everybody is proud of their origins.
I don't know if you have ever been to Australia, i doubt it, and if you were here I doubt you ventured any further than Sydney Harbour. But you clearly have no understanding of Australia's cultural environment.
You do not know more than racism in this country than me

I've been to Australia, and I'll probably go there on vacation in February if my schedule will allow me to take a week off before or after reading week.
Assuming for a second that you do know more about racism in Australia than I do because you are an Australia and live in a multicultural neighborhood, how could you possibly claim "minorities who live where I grew up do not feel it harder than anywhere else?" Have you lived in a similar neighborhood in Canada, the US, South Africa, etc...? You haven't, so you cannot make that claim. You can say that in your opinion you don't believe racism in Australia to be a problem, but many of your countrymen and many career academics would disagree with you. I'd be inclined to accept their reports published in peer-edited academic journals because such reports are the work of experts who have done almost everything they could to ensure that their results are accurate.

On another note, you try and accuse me of rhetoric, then in your next paragraph you claim Australia has "Concentration camps".
Now i didn't want to go off topic, but that is such a serious and innaccurate comment that it must be rebutted.
We have immigration detention centres for people who enter the country illegally and refuse to leave, just like every other western world country.

Australia's "immigration detention centers" are more similar to concentration camps than they are to what Canada would deem a "detention center."

If an American comes here illegally and refuses to take the next available flight home, then he is sent to one.
Likewise if somebody comes illegally on a dangerous boat, then they are sent there.
Of course some claim thast they are refugees, they may well be, but they still come here liggeally and must be processed before being allowed in to the nation, they are jumping in the line in front of others who wish to come here.
If they are refugess then they can claim asylum in ANY one of dozens of nations they pass through before arriving in Indonesia. But they do not. One in Indonesia they pay thousands of American dollars (I could do with that kind of money) each to board an unsafe boat, and cross shark and crocodile infested seas to attempt to enter Australia illegally. By doing this they endanger their children, the RAN has had to save hundreds over the last 5 years from sinking boats, sadly hundreds mroe have drowned.

Once caught they are offered a flight home, if they say no then they are placed in detention during the processing phase of their application.

Now we have to control the people who enter our country. Especially with the diseases and unsavoury characters about in the world. If they are true refugess then they should claim refugee status in the first of many safe countries they pass through before taking the irresponsible journey to enter Australia illegally.

They don't want a flight home and they don't want to live in some other country on the way to Australia, they want to live in your socialist welfare state.

It may be easy for you to judge in Canada. No risk of having thousands of unprocessed people sailing into your waters. Buit it must be done, and frankly i feel no sympathy when they get caught, neither do my ethnic freinds whose parents had to come here legally to escape the wars in former Youguslavia.

The detention centres are not "concentration camps", they are compounds where illegal immigrants are held whilst our authorities can process their requests. If they (illegals) did things by the book then their would be no need, but instead of applying for UN refugee status where appropriate they came all this way, dangerously, iresspinsibly, illlegally, and wasting australia's taxpayers dollars. They are provided with food, beds, TV, computers, internet, sports grounds and equipment, which is what they are entitled to whilst being processed. They are not exterminated like in a concentration camp.

There's a difference between a concentration camp and a death camp. Necessity is recognized as a legal defense in Australia, so any refugee or asylum seeker could claim he/she had to make it to Australia to avoid death or torture.
It's funny that Australia calls its whole concentration camp system the "Pacific Solution," when the Nazis called their death camp plan the "Final Solution." Actually, that's not funny at all. A few people have sewn their lips shut in your nation's fine detention centers. That's nice.

Frankly I would like an apology from you regarding you concentration camp claims, they were false, unbackable, serious, and way off the mark and have no place in discussions such as this.

Sorry everybody else fro straying off topic, but that was a serious claim by ROB, and i was not going to take it.

You'll get no apology from me.
It's nice that you're a patriot and you're trying to defend Australia, but you have to realize that sometimes your country's actions are wrong or immoral. After all, isn't it illegal to possess handcuffs or a sword in your country without a proper permit!?

a) You claim to know more then others who live and work and experience the country in which you claim to have expert knowledge.

1. I never claimed to know more about Australia than someone who lives there. I did claim, and continue to cliam, that I know more about racism in Australia than the two Australians who have posted in this thread. This is because I'm repeating the work of experts.
2. I've never cliamed to have expert knowledge.

b) You have you head stuck so far up your rear you...you get the idea.

I could easily say the same thing about any of you who refuse to recognize my point of view; because I take it you say this because I refuse to recognize yours. Were this board around a few decades ago, I'd expect the same reaction if I were to say that there would never be a war with the USSR.

c) Your spouting the very same wishy-washy socialist everyone-get-along junk that people on this site hate with a passion, and have already disproved. And;

Socialists might agree with what I say, but for completely different reasons. I'm no socialist; you're probably much more of a socialist than I am. Why should disagreeing with overblown terrorist and American propaganda and media fear mongering make me a socialist?

d) Your acting like the typical ivory-tower dwelling rose-tinted goggle wearing student that gives the few of us students who don't talk out of their arse a bad name (well, I do sometimes but usually by mistake).

Because I think terrorists won't attack Canada? Since this thread began, they haven't, so I've been right. I'll continue to be right in this assertion.

No problem, thanks for pointing that out. I was obviously just skimming ROB's post, as I have read all that before, and would have called him on it at the time.

MOD EDIT: ROB, show us some proof of these "concentration camps" [ do you really know what that means?]or I will start the warning process on you.

Bruce, I hope this proof will suffice. I'll add more at your request.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=2&q=concentration%20camp

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/1262393.stm

By the way, I like your signature. I'll be sure to reference it when the need to do so once again comes up in this thread.

We have the same thing here; but Rob doesn't know this, because he's too busy being right !!
http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/newsroom/factsheets/2004/0311ArrestsDetentions-e.html

Wow, thanks for telling me what I know. And to think, all the while I thought we kept our detained illegals in the Four Seasons.
Why not wait for me to reply first, next time? If you're just going to try to attack me, at least try not to make a fool of yourself in the process.