Islam-bashing film sparks fears of violence

[DBA]

No it is not. These are facts.
Do you remember when the history of democracy in US starts?
Right.
Independence day, Boston tea party etc.

How do you expect that countries like Iran, which gained independence in 1942 become democratic in a moment?
It takes some time.
May be a hundred years. But it should be faster than on the West.

Most consider Magna Carta originally issued in 1215 as the start of the path to constitutional government for the western world. It wasn't a smooth road as just like with the US constitution it wasn't allways lived up to. For example some subjects were taxed but not given representation which led to that tea party thing you mentioned.

 

[tomahawk6]

What's ironic is that after the revolution President Washington was faced with $70m in debt.His Treasury Secretary Alexander Hamilton recommended to Washington that to pay down the debt taxes needed to be imposed - a tax on spirits one of the reasons that the revolution began.

 

[Richie]

Various atheist movements have done just as bad. Mao's cultural revolution in China, Stalin's gulags/purges in Russia, Pol Pot's killing fields in Cambodia and on and on and on. The cancer is totalitarian and undemocratic states. The answer is embodied in the US Constitution. Things like limited government, separation of church and state, freedom of religion, freedom of speech, the rule of law under which all are equal, the right to due process and the right to petition the government. I don't think it's an accident that countries that embody these principles the most are also the most prosperous and those that don't follow any of them are much less prosperous.

I definitely can't argue with your post. Mankind invented religion as well as the various despotic systems that you've mentioned. I'm certainly not claiming that atheists hold the moral high ground any more than one could claim that religion has a monopoly on morality.

As a libertarian, I support much of what I see in the US constitution, e.g. limited government, individual freedom/responsibility. The men who met at the Constitutional Convention in Philadelphia did more than just draft a new agreement between the States, they gave all of us a powerful tool to use against oppression in whatever form it takes.

We all need something to help us get through life; if religion works for you, then I'm happy for you (absolutely no sarcasm intended). I don't feel the need for a god or gods, I would rather put my faith in my fellow Human Beings, as flawed as we are.
I have no right to deny anyone their beliefs nor does anyone have the right to force religion on me. I think I said in another thread that I can't stand people who wear their religion on their sleeve. I don't care what you believe in as long as you're an honest, moral person. I consider myself to be honest and moral (I try my best, at any rate) and that's all I ask of others.

Maybe the cancer is in us as a species. I hope not. I do have faith in our future as a race of intelligent, caring beings but sometimes I just stop and wonder. Maybe I read the newspapers too much. 

Anyway, I'll get off my soapbox now, religion has always been a "hot button" for me. If I offended anyone by my statements, it was unintentional; I respect what you believe in, just please return the favour.

Richie

 

[NL_engineer]

No it is not. These are facts.
Do you remember when the history of democracy in US starts?

O were to start.

The US fought as one for there independence from British Rule ending in (1775/6), then as a nation they formed there constitution, that is meant to ensure that America will always be a democratic country (ratified in 1778).

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

(ref)

Just so you don't come back with something:  The first Article of the US Constitution states the levels of government, and the powers.  The second article sets out the power of the President of the United States, including a cause to remove him from office if the people feel necessary (through congress). 

And then we get to the Amendments:

Amendment 1 - Freedom of Religion, Press, Expression. Ratified 12/15/1791. Note

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

and if all that goes to Rat S***

Amendment 2 - Right to Bear Arms. Ratified 12/15/1791. Note

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

{everyone should have known it was coming}

US Constitution

and if you want background on the US Constitution

Now do you still wish to compare the US with Iraq?

 

[Flanker]

Now do you still wish to compare the US with Iraq?

No doubt, they are two different countries.
My point was that the independence is a required (but not sufficient) condition to build democracy.
Another requirement is a good market economy. Democracy is not just a constitution or elections, it is a complex system of relations and counter-weights in society. IMHO this system cannot be imported and is own to each country.
Time is required to build this system and properly balance it.

 

[NL_engineer]

No doubt, they are two different countries.
My point was that the independence is a required (but not sufficient) condition to build democracy.
Another requirement is a good economy. Democracy is not just a constitution or elections, it is a complex system of relations and counter-weights in society. IMHO this system cannot be imported and is own to each country.
Time is required to build this system and properly balance it.

What's ironic is that after the revolution President Washington was faced with $70m in debt.His Treasury Secretary Alexander Hamilton recommended to Washington that to pay down the debt taxes needed to be imposed - a tax on spirits one of the reasons that the revolution began.

Well as T6 said, after the US gained Independence they were faced with huge debt.  So with a 70 Mill debt in the 1700's how do you think their economy was?

I am still not seeing your point

 

[muskrat89]

This thread is going 90 miles per hour down a dead-end street. I am going to lock it for now. We'll discuss in the CP the value in re-opening it tomorrow.

Army.ca Staff