Islam-bashing film sparks fears of violence

[Richie]

Live from the catwalk of religious outrage!!! Ya know they're just doin' it to push our buttons! 

 

[Flanker]

In the west homosexuals are part of society and in Iran they are hung a very good example of intolerance.

I do not think so. It may be rather an example of intolerance of some western minds to other cultures.
It is just their country and their law.

 

[axeman]

Well in this country its legal to have a political satire of something and illegal to utter /offer threats of violence , and death . So when are we gonna round up these persons who do the illegal act{utter threats /offer violence}? if they are here on a visa to visit this country doesnt that invalidate the visa and thus force them to leave?

:deadhorse:

 

[Flanker]

I believe he is directly attacking the Koran, and clearly showing the portion's that dictate that it is acceptable/encourageed to descriminate/kill people of other faith's. It effectively is showing that the Koran is a recruiting manual for terrorists and justifies killing people of other religion's.

It is no more than the author's point of view.
The film seems to be is an unsophisticated provocation.
One of two. Either the film author is paid for his job of creating religion tensions, either he is too silly/uneducated to foresee the effect of his speculations and has never opened any ancient religious books like Quran, Bible or Torah.
There are a lot of controversial quotes especially if they are put out of the original context.

 

[Reccesoldier]

It is no more than the author's point of view.
The film seems to be is an unsophisticated provocation.
One of two. Either the film author is paid for his job of creating religion tensions, either he is too silly/uneducated to foresee the effect of his speculations and has never opened any ancient religious books like Quran, Bible or Torah.
There are a lot of controversial quotes especially if they are put out of the original context.

Is there anything in the film that is not true?  Why defend the indefensible?

Are you saying that we (the west) should just ignore the problem?  We just shut up and not mention the fact that these people have sworn to butcher each and every one of us?  We should ignore their warnings because the possibility of them living up to their murderous ideal is so slim? 

Where have I heard of that policy being forwarded before?

Oh, I remember, only then the slogan wasn't "Don't provoke" it was "Peace in our time."

 

[Flanker]

Well in this country its legal to have a political satire of something and illegal to utter /offer threats of violence , and death . So when are we gonna round up these persons who do the illegal act{utter threats /offer violence}? if they are here on a visa to visit this country doesnt that invalidate the visa and thus force them to leave?

It is very legitimate.
My point is that some western people see freedom, democracy  (in their interpretations) and so on as ultimate goals. It is like a new religion. Moreover, they think sometimes that other countries should accept and follow these goals without any doubt. The reality is more complex and less straightforward.
Each people is a product of thousand-year evolution of its cultural, political an economical aspects.
In some countries there are more important things that are missing - food, water, basic medications, etc.

 

[X-mo-1979]

There are a lot of controversial quotes especially if they are put out of the original context.

Care to put these in original context then:


“Whoever changes his Islamic religion, kill him.” (Hadith Al Buhkari vol. 9:57)

Of the Unbelievers:  Sura 4:89 “seize them and slay them wherever you find them: and in any case take no friends or helpers from their ranks.”


I can find more,but I like to start with just a couple for you.

 

[1feral1]

It is no more than the author's point of view.

Ya, right  :

Feel free to move to one of these countries, and convert if you feel this way.

Facts are facts, and what was shown is reality of the extreme side.

 

[Richie]

Human beings are equal; human cultures are not. I prefer to live in a Western society where I enjoy a level of individual freedom unparalleled in the history of our race. Islam wants to destroy my way of life. Muslims do not think as individuals; they follow a book written by a failed goat herder in Arabia 1,400 years ago. Islam is a harsh, totalitarian ideology that does not distinguish between Church and State. It is totally incompatible with the Western way of life. By allowing these people into our countries, we are slitting our own throats.
But we must be Politically Correct, so we let the muslims get away with things in the hope that they will learn to like us and become our friends (yep... :)  Sooner rather than later, we will have to wake up and look islam in the face and see it for what it is.
As for the protesters shown in this thread, they protest like this to attract attention; it's psychological warfare on their part. Either ridicule them or ignore them, but don't take them seriously, that's what they want.

 

[Flanker]

Is there anything in the film that is not true?  Why defend the indefensible?

Are you saying that we (the west) should just ignore the problem?  We just shut up and not mention the fact that these people have sworn to butcher each and every one of us?  We should ignore their warnings because the possibility of them living up to their murderous ideal is so slim? 

Wow, let's calm down.
The problem is that someone try to use religion in their dirty games. The statements like yours are just helping them.
We need to keep separate religion and crimes and handle crimes without mention to religion. That would be right.

Do we want religious wars? No, I do not think so.

Now, what is not true in the film?  The link between Quran and terrorist acts.
There is an assumption that Quran is nothing but a terrorist manual. This is wrong.

 

[VM]

Do we want religious wars? No, I do not think so.

I don't understand. The wars today are most certianly religious in some context. They may not be religious for the west, but they are definitly religious for the taliban, al qaida etc. That doesn't mean we should condem Islam, however, it does mean that the fight is all done in the name of Islam. In my opinion, the war in Iraq and Afghanistan can hardly be more religious, even with the fact that it is not about religion for the west.

 

[George Wallace]

Human beings are equal; human cultures are not. I prefer to live in a Western society where I enjoy a level of individual freedom unparalleled in the history of our race. Islam wants to destroy my way of life. Muslims do not think as individuals; they follow a book written by a failed goat herder in Arabia 1,400 years ago. Islam is a harsh, totalitarian ideology that does not distinguish between Church and State. It is totally incompatible with the Western way of life. By allowing these people into our countries, we are slitting our own throats.
But we must be Politically Correct, so we let the muslims get away with things in the hope that they will learn to like us and become our friends (yep... :)  Sooner rather than later, we will have to wake up and look islam in the face and see it for what it is.
As for the protesters shown in this thread, they protest like this to attract attention; it's psychological warfare on their part. Either ridicule them or ignore them, but don't take them seriously, that's what they want.

Gosh!  I wonder what your opinion of the Spanish Inquisition would be.  "Adopt Christ or Die and be Baptised in Death".   Talk about not looking at the facts.  So Christianity is a few hundred years ahead of Islam, does that change the fact that once upon a time Christianity had just as "fanatical" sects in its midst as Islam has today?    

 

[Flanker]

Care to put these in original context then:


“Whoever changes his Islamic religion, kill him.” (Hadith Al Buhkari vol. 9:57)

Of the Unbelievers:  Sura 4:89 “seize them and slay them wherever you find them: and in any case take no friends or helpers from their ranks.”


I can find more,but I like to start with just a couple for you.

Just an exemple of putting out of context.

Volume 9, #57 "Narrated 'Ikrima: Some Zanadiqa (atheists) were brought to 'Ali and he burnt them. The news of this event, reached Ibn 'Abbas who said, "If I had been in his place, I would not have burnt them, as Allah's Apostle forbade it, saying, 'Do not punish anybody with Allah's punishment (fire).' I would have killed them according to the statement of Allah's Apostle, 'Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him.'

This is simple description of some historical events and words of Ibn Abbas.
Quran and Bible have plenty descriptions like this.

A similar exemple from Bible (American King James Version)

"That whoever would not seek the LORD God of Israel should be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman."

So what? Must we burn all infidels?

 

[Reccesoldier]

Wow, let's calm down.

  No thanks, that's the first step to self censorship.

The problem is that someone try to use religion in their dirty games. The statements like yours are just helping them.

  No, not really.  The people who are helping them are the same people who are protesting this film but couldn't be bothered to denounce the attacks in New York, Bali, London or Madrid with the same zeal.

We need to keep separate religion and crimes and handle crimes without mention to religion. That would be right.

  No we don't.  We need for the people who claim that their religion is peaceful and tolerant and respectful of the rights of others to crush the hate and fanaticism that is being fermented by, in and with the tacit or at least implied approval of every single Muslim that has ever heard an Imam call for the destruction of Israel or the subjugation of the west and done nothing.

Do we want religious wars? No, I do not think so.

Sow the wind, reap the whirlwind.

Now, what is not true in the film?  The link between Quran and terrorist acts.
There is an assumption that Quran is nothing but a terrorist manual. This is wrong.

The Quran is used by each and every Islamic terrorist to justify his actions.  And those actions are not anywhere near as strongly condemned as this 15 minute film has been.

Take a good hard look at the pictures Recceguy posted.

If you want to close your eyes and cover your ears and ignore the proven link between radical Islam the Quran and Islamic terrorists then go ahead, but don't think to stop me from pointing out just how idiotic that dismissal of reason is.

 

[armyvern]

Unfortunately, one of those religions mentioned below seems to be evolving; the other -- not so much.

One now sees Christians rising up and stating that "thou shall not kill" ...

The other side seems to be silent on that topic ... and I think that's the whole point of the film in the first place.

Why are the majority of peace-loving Muslims not speaking out with their millions of voices? Why the silence...

 

[George Wallace]

Just an exemple of putting out of context.

Volume 9, #57 "Narrated 'Ikrima: Some Zanadiqa (atheists) were brought to 'Ali and he burnt them. The news of this event, reached Ibn 'Abbas who said, "If I had been in his place, I would not have burnt them, as Allah's Apostle forbade it, saying, 'Do not punish anybody with Allah's punishment (fire).' I would have killed them according to the statement of Allah's Apostle, 'Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him.'

This is simple description of some historical events and words of Ibn Abbas.
Quran and Bible have plenty descriptions like this.

A similar exemple from Bible (American King James Version)

"That whoever would not seek the LORD God of Israel should be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman."

So what? Must we burn all infidels?

Well, it seems that over the ages Christians have realized the folly of those words and have reached "more reasonable" and "peaceful" ways of living with others.  Fanatical Islamic Fundamentalists, on the other hand, have not come to the same level of reasoning over the same passage of time.  The restrictions placed on education in many cultures, not just religions, creates these fanatics who act out of "blind faith" in what they are taught by their teachers.  They become pawns of one of many different ideologies that spread hatred.

The moderates who allow any religious or philosophical teaching to preach hatred are just as guilty in their silence as those who would commit hate crimes against humanity.

 

[Flanker]

Why are the majority of peace-loving Muslims not speaking out with their millions of voices? Why the silence...

There is no silence. Muslim leaders regularly condemn terrorist attacks.
It is important to understand that Islamic community has no one centralized leader like a Catholic pope who can officially emit public releases.

 

[Flanker]

The moderates who allow any religious or philosophical teaching to preach hatred are just as guilty in their silence as those who would commit hate crimes against humanity.

It is a very large assumption.
I assume you are Christian.
Are coming to manifestation to denounce crimes every time a Christian fanatic kills someone?
Are you considering guilty yourself for these crimes?

 

[midgetcop]

Those are some of the scariest pictures I've seen in a long time. Not entirely surprised, but disturbed....quite. 

Here's my stupid question for the day (don't mind me folks, I'm the ignorant agnostic): why the obsession with those who *aren't* part of your religion?? i.e. this whole idea of either exterminating or converting everyone else. Man, if I was devoutly religious I'd be pretty pleased with myself that I had everything figured out and everyone else was going to hell (or wherever the religion dictates).

I just can't wrap my head around these things.

 

[midgetcop]

There is no silence. Muslim leaders regularly condemn terrorist attacks.
It is important to understand that Islamic community has no one centralized leader like a Catholic pope who can officially emit public releases.

It's also not nearly as exciting in print or as a sound byte.