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Informing the Army’s Future Structure

I find it comes from a desire to find some use for the light Bns.
There are a lot of things to use Light Battalions for. But forcing a non Light mission on a Light Battalion is a recipe for failure. Dispersed operations may or may not be a good task for them, depending on terrain and enemy force strength and composition.

I say this as both a believer in SOF and Light forces, but also with an understanding that LIB’s aren’t SOF and can’t and shouldn’t be used like SOF. Light forces can also be used in concentration, albeit either in a supported Static Defense, or in complex terrain that isn’t conducive to Mech or Armor (again see my disdain for the M10 Light Tank as it flies in the face of our Light doctrine).

Quite honestly for a lot of Dispersed operations the IFV/LAV Infantry is often better suited as the mobility and firepower combined with the integral FCS (and comms) often provides a better option. They have a larger range band in terms of both engagement and integral detection capabilities. Furthermore with the proliferation of UAS, it’s often easier to hide one IFV than 2-4 Light vehicles - and also have C-UAS systems on board.
 
There are a lot of things to use Light Battalions for. But forcing a non Light mission on a Light Battalion is a recipe for failure. Dispersed operations may or may not be a good task for them, depending on terrain and enemy force strength and composition.

I say this as both a believer in SOF and Light forces, but also with an understanding that LIB’s aren’t SOF and can’t and shouldn’t be used like SOF. Light forces can also be used in concentration, albeit either in a supported Static Defense, or in complex terrain that isn’t conducive to Mech or Armor (again see my disdain for the M10 Light Tank as it flies in the face of our Light doctrine).

Quite honestly for a lot of Dispersed operations the IFV/LAV Infantry is often better suited as the mobility and firepower combined with the integral FCS (and comms) often provides a better option. They have a larger range band in terms of both engagement and integral detection capabilities. Furthermore with the proliferation of UAS, it’s often easier to hide one IFV than 2-4 Light vehicles - and also have C-UAS systems on board.
British in Malaysia used regular forces to back stop the SAS. The Regs would hold vital ground, while the SAS went hunting and provided base security and QRF for the SAS.
 
There are a lot of things to use Light Battalions for. But forcing a non Light mission on a Light Battalion is a recipe for failure. Dispersed operations may or may not be a good task for them, depending on terrain and enemy force strength and composition.

I say this as both a believer in SOF and Light forces, but also with an understanding that LIB’s aren’t SOF and can’t and shouldn’t be used like SOF. Light forces can also be used in concentration, albeit either in a supported Static Defense, or in complex terrain that isn’t conducive to Mech or Armor (again see my disdain for the M10 Light Tank as it flies in the face of our Light doctrine).

Quite honestly for a lot of Dispersed operations the IFV/LAV Infantry is often better suited as the mobility and firepower combined with the integral FCS (and comms) often provides a better option. They have a larger range band in terms of both engagement and integral detection capabilities. Furthermore with the proliferation of UAS, it’s often easier to hide one IFV than 2-4 Light vehicles - and also have C-UAS systems on board.

'Light' needs 'Might', in a variety of ways, to be successful.
 
'Light' needs 'Might', in a variety of ways, to be successful.
For several years there was concern that the Light Divisions down here where ‘Too Light to Fight’ those words where usually spoken by GO’s who’s entire history was in Armored units.

I suspect that’s how the whole ‘Medium’ Stryker concept was born. Reeling from Somalia, (and conveniently forgetting that the USMC Amor was removed and the AC-130 support denied) there was a hope to be able to have protected mobility for certain operations— OFC they are too heavy to arrive quickly and not significantly more easily moved than an Armored Div…

Units/capabilities need to be viewed like chess, where no one wants to be the pawn (let’s call those Striker Bde’s ;) )
But understanding that the Armored Div Rook is a great piece that can move inline, but doesn’t do too well in a diagonal battle space. The Light units are Knight’s who can’t attack directly by are asymmetrical- and Stay the F out of range of the Queen HIMARS…
 
The USAF commissioned a RAND study in 2001/2 to determine if the Army's strategic objectives of rapid deployment of Stryker forces were feasible with current USAF resources. The objective was 4 days to deploy an SBCT to anywhere in the world. The study basically says 9 to 21 days depending on factors.


Obviously Canada works at a different scale for both the force to be deployed and the air and sealift available. Understanding all the factors, however, gives on a good appreciation of the feasible.

This study has a lot to do with why I'm an advocate of forward deployed or prepositioned forces.

🍻
 
The USAF commissioned a RAND study in 2001/2 to determine if the Army's strategic objectives of rapid deployment of Stryker forces were feasible with current USAF resources. The objective was 4 days to deploy an SBCT to anywhere in the world. The study basically says 9 to 21 days depending on factors.



Obviously Canada works at a different scale for both the force to be deployed and the air and sealift available. Understanding all the factors, however, gives on a good appreciation of the feasible.

This study has a lot to do with why I'm an advocate of forward deployed or prepositioned forces.

🍻
I loved that study it make me LOL repeatedly whenever someone tried to defend the concept of the Rapidly deployable Stryker formations.
 
For several years there was concern that the Light Divisions down here where ‘Too Light to Fight’ those words where usually spoken by GO’s who’s entire history was in Armored units.

I suspect that’s how the whole ‘Medium’ Stryker concept was born. Reeling from Somalia, (and conveniently forgetting that the USMC Amor was removed and the AC-130 support denied) there was a hope to be able to have protected mobility for certain operations— OFC they are too heavy to arrive quickly and not significantly more easily moved than an Armored Div…

Units/capabilities need to be viewed like chess, where no one wants to be the pawn (let’s call those Striker Bde’s ;) )
But understanding that the Armored Div Rook is a great piece that can move inline, but doesn’t do too well in a diagonal battle space. The Light units are Knight’s who can’t attack directly by are asymmetrical- and Stay the F out of range of the Queen HIMARS…

And then there's the reality that 'Blackhawk Down' was deep and broad leadership failure, not an equipment problem, of course ;)
 
The USAF commissioned a RAND study in 2001/2 to determine if the Army's strategic objectives of rapid deployment of Stryker forces were feasible with current USAF resources. The objective was 4 days to deploy an SBCT to anywhere in the world. The study basically says 9 to 21 days depending on factors.



Obviously Canada works at a different scale for both the force to be deployed and the air and sealift available. Understanding all the factors, however, gives on a good appreciation of the feasible.

This study has a lot to do with why I'm an advocate of forward deployed or prepositioned forces.

🍻

This is the paragraph in that report that I had trouble grasping.

Most of the airlift analysis that follows assumes that the SBCT is allocated 60 C-17 equivalents for its deployment—

roughly 25 percent of the projected AMC capacity.

This value was not chosen to predict the allocation of aircraft to an SBCT deployment but, rather, to provide a reasonable estimate by which to
compare the various cases presented in this analysis.

It probably is a bit optimistic; during the first two months of Operation DesertmShield, the entire Army received only 40 percent of the strategic
airlift.16


The report starts by stating that:

a brigade combat team capable of being deployed anywhere in the world in 96 hours after liftoff,
with a division on the ground in 120 hours and
five divisions in 30 days

I can see the problem with diverting assets from regular duties for one to two months, so the five divisions in 30 days made no sense. You might as well pile those Divisions into ferries and sail them across.

But...

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Is it totally unrealistic to assume that for a period of 96 hours 76% of the available airlift couldn't be dedicated to a single task?

Suppose the 82nd Airborne were deployed by tankers and civilian aircraft in an administrative move to a civilian airfield and had an SBCT deployed as an attachment to the Division?

Even getting the 82nd and an SBCT on the ground in 8 days would be a creditable feat.

That study was commissioned by the USAF at the time the Army was buying C27s and JHSVs because the Army was concerned its sister forces weren't interested in supporting its deployment needs and local transport.

My impression was this report was an effort by the USAF to say "Don't be ridiculous. You can't do that."

How much of the C17 fleet was tasked, and for how long, at the start of the Ukrainian emergency?
 
My impression was this report was an effort by the USAF to say "Don't be ridiculous. You can't do that."

Having been part of an Army formation that was wholly reliant on airlift to do it's job, and happily wrote checks that the Air Force couldn't cash, I can sympathize with the USAF ;)
 
This is the paragraph in that report that I had trouble grasping.




The report starts by stating that:



I can see the problem with diverting assets from regular duties for one to two months, so the five divisions in 30 days made no sense. You might as well pile those Divisions into ferries and sail them across.

But...

View attachment 78261

Is it totally unrealistic to assume that for a period of 96 hours 76% of the available airlift couldn't be dedicated to a single task?

Suppose the 82nd Airborne were deployed by tankers and civilian aircraft in an administrative move to a civilian airfield and had an SBCT deployed as an attachment to the Division?

Even getting the 82nd and an SBCT on the ground in 8 days would be a creditable feat.

That study was commissioned by the USAF at the time the Army was buying C27s and JHSVs because the Army was concerned its sister forces weren't interested in supporting its deployment needs and local transport.

My impression was this report was an effort by the USAF to say "Don't be ridiculous. You can't do that."

How much of the C17 fleet was tasked, and for how long, at the start of the Ukrainian emergency?
What are the aircraft availability rates? That itself might reduce the overall strategic airlift capability to 76% of overall airlift capability. It's also not like all those aircraft are sitting in the CONUS waiting for a tasking. I'm sure there are aircraft spread all over the planet in support of operations at hundreds of US base locations. I'm sure in an emergency you could marshal a significant portion of the fleet together with time and effort but I'm sure that there are lots of other taskings that are considered of vital importance that would need to continue while you move your SBCT.

If there's the necessity to rush a SBCT to theatre in an emergency 96-hoursisn't it also likely that you'll be surging many other assets...additional fighters, ISR assets, AD assets, SOF, supporting CS units, additional war stocks for existing forces in the theatre, etc. All of those will require strategic airlift as well. You can't take the entirety of the operations of the US Army/USAF and focus down to performing a single task at the expense of all others.
 
This is the paragraph in that report that I had trouble grasping.




The report starts by stating that:



I can see the problem with diverting assets from regular duties for one to two months, so the five divisions in 30 days made no sense. You might as well pile those Divisions into ferries and sail them across.

But...

View attachment 78261

Is it totally unrealistic to assume that for a period of 96 hours 76% of the available airlift couldn't be dedicated to a single task?
Yes.
We do have a response matrix for airlift
It’s classified above TS at this point.
Suppose the 82nd Airborne were deployed by tankers and civilian aircraft in an administrative move to a civilian airfield and had an SBCT deployed as an attachment to the Division?
Look at the Ukraine run up.
We had 65 C-17 dedicated to Ukraine equipment runs - plus almost 80 moving the 82nd, 101st and non conventional units to Germany and Poland

Even getting the 82nd and an SBCT on the ground in 8 days would be a creditable feat.
We moved the 82nd, 101st, 5 ABCT’s and 2 SBCT’s inside of 4, but the equipment was prepositioned.

That study was commissioned by the USAF at the time the Army was buying C27s and JHSVs because the Army was concerned its sister forces weren't interested in supporting its deployment needs and local transport.

My impression was this report was an effort by the USAF to say "Don't be ridiculous. You can't do that."

How much of the C17 fleet was tasked, and for how long, at the start of the Ukrainian emergency?
Ukraine response flights took a good 80% of the available fleet for several weeks.
Moving XVIII Abn Corps, and V Armored Corps into Germany and Poland — again with PREPOSITIONED equipment from the POMCUS sites.
Plus Javelin and Stinger missiles plus others items for the Ukrainians.


XVIII ABN Corps is our global QRF.
It does now have Stryker Brigades as part of it. But they arrive after the light fighters.

Frankly I suspect we will see less and less Active Duty Stryker units as the years go on.
Their mobility is a fallacy, as they are neither fish nor fowl, and a result quite foul.

The entire concept of the Stryker has been modified- again growing in weight and size like the CAF LAV, but the RWS being replaced by larger cal manned turrets now planned for ATGM as well.
 
Perhaps try to stay to one topic at a time.
It’s getting exceedingly hard to follow your points as they seems to jump around all over.

I try, but in my mind too many things are connected to be able to look at things in isolation.

Sometimes the tail does wag the dog.

I would want 1 well experienced leader, and 2 somewhat experienced A/TL’s.

Potentially, I’d suggest 4 more units, instead of 16, as you don’t want to totally dilute the experience, and it also gives a backup if the TL is killed or otherwise incapable of leading.

To me that sort of thinking needs to be part of any larger mobilization strategy.

How much equipment and time do you have.

All of which is reasonably covered by "It depends." And that, in my confused mind, is a legitimate response.

Am I considering too wide an envelope of possibilities? Or not seeing what you are seeing?

Going back to your 10 to 12 US Divisions, excluding a 2-ish from the USMC,

By my reckoning 12 Div HQs with 29 BCTs of various types among them, 1 BCT being independent, 2nd Inf Div having no troops of its own, 5 Divs only having 2 BCTs and only 6 having 3 BCTs,

11 of the 29 BCTs are Heavy-Combined Arms
18 of the 29 BCTs are Infantry in various transport (6 Leg, 5 Abn, 3 Helo, 4 Motorized (Stryker).

Those are organized under 4 Corps.

And considering a prolonged Ukraine scenario, say an Iraq or Afghanistan commitment but at current Ukrainian tempo, is it beyond reason to suppose that some portion of the force would have to be securing the rear, holding trenches, patrolling and screening large areas, while, at the same time, holding a mobile reserve force - probably heliborne, and a heavy striking force?

Which piece goes where? And how long can they keep it up?

Going off on a tangent that I accuse you of, part of my like of the Brigade Group concept for Canada is that it could allow for that Brigade to become a Div upon a mobilization— because it at least has the bones of the concept.

See! Everything is connected.;)

I'm not 100% sure that we understand each other here, but I will declare "Sokath, his eyes uncovered."

Fair 'nuff.

There is too much in your post to unpack, but I will try to hit the theme as I assess it to be.

My apologies.
We plan down two and task down one. So as a battalion commander we visualize the operation in terms of platoons. How many platoons will it take to achieve a given task? Do we have the right combat power in our groupings to achieve the tasks we have given them? We game it out and make adjustments. I might assume that a company commander might do his attack as a right flank, but I will only tell him to do it that way if the rest of the plan would be unhinged by his choice (restraints and constraints).

So we've thought through the battle in terms of platoons but we task companies and then let them get on with it. The same principle applies as we go up: brigades plan down to companies in the wargame but task battalions in the order.

To try to answer your question, maybe my analysis is that a given task requires four platoons of combat power, but there is only room for those four. Rather than have two companies converge on that task I might detach a platoon from one company and attach it to the other for that task (or the whole operation if I don't want regroupings on the fly). If there is plenty of uncertainty then we have a larger reserve where I have already pulled a platoon from an OC to have it ready to reinforce one of them.

Those OCs are in Command, though, of their entities during the battle. They are not assistants. An Ops O is an assistant. When I was a Chief of Staff of a Brigade I was an "assistant", there to help my Comd exercise command and (mostly) control. But an OC is in command and we have that because our battles are fought by real people on behalf of national authority. And real people need motivation from time to time.

I guess my view is that the person in charge sets the Intent and the Course of Action. Everybody else is assisting in the effort to achieve that Intent, subject to the restraints and constraints established by the Commander. In that sense I see all subordinate commanders as assistants.

Notwithstanding that their troops are their troops and directed and controlled under that person's orders.

Stepping back further, my fundamental position, was how to manage the flood of information available in the field today.

My contention is that the best place for that information to be managed is at the lowest level.

Commanders, at all levels, might be better served to focus on the results of their subordinates decisions and their performance rather than worrying about whether or not the subordinate is making the right decision in the instant. This isn't just a military thing. I hold the same view of life in the civilian world.

If the Commander/Manager starts trying to win every contact does he/she have that kind of bandwidth to operate effectively? If he doesn't trust his people in the field and feels the need to have a supervisor in his HQ to manage that person in the field does he need both people? Or should the supervisor replace the man in the field in the field?

This isn't really about Light Forces. My sense of Ukraine is that I am seeing Light, Medium and Heavy forces, Airborne and Leg, Cavalry and Infantry, conducting Dispersed Operations. Heavy forces are being penny-packeted forwards in groups of 3 or 4 vehicles, or 10 to 15 vehicles to deal with objectives that a kilometers from the next contact. Mutual Support doesn't seem to be very likely. That Troop/Platoon Leader is going to have to be very self-reliant and prepared for a variety of possibilities.

Seems to me, anyway.
 
My impression was this report was an effort by the USAF to say "Don't be ridiculous. You can't do that."
I expect that throughout the Stryker program the USAF was saying this and the purpose of the RAND study was to demonstrate it in detail.

Recall that this was in the post Cold War period and the US Army (like the Canadian Army) was looking for a way to be relevant in the failed state scenario with more rapidly deployable agile forces. The Army's 96 hours / 120 hours / 30 days formula was very much part of the sales program for the "Interim Brigade Combat Team" aka "SBCT".

I'm not aware of whether or not the Canadian LAV program used any such selling feature. In our case we were replacing AVGPs, as well as M113s, with LAVs so we already had a medium capability that the US Army did not. IMHO, the turn of the century divestment of heavy in Canada in favour of medium was like a religious cult movement (albeit Jeffery was aiming to keep a heavy component in tiered readiness) In the US it was more a legitimate creation of a force that bridged light and medium capabilities. Medium forces are useful but need to be examined realistically as to what it is they can and cannot do. Rapid deployment is one of those. More rapid than a heavy force, yes, but nowhere near as rapid as a light force.

Frankly I suspect we will see less and less Active Duty Stryker units as the years go on.
Their mobility is a fallacy, as they are neither fish nor fowl, and a result quite foul.

The entire concept of the Stryker has been modified- again growing in weight and size like the CAF LAV, but the RWS being replaced by larger cal manned turrets now planned for ATGM as well.

I think that you are right about less Active Duty SBCTs, but not because of their mobility issues but because the US will be less willing to involve itself in the type of failed state, counterinsurgency missions that the Stryker was contemplated for. I think, as well, that the US Army will now be reticent to give up any Active Duty heavy forces so as personnel issues come to the fore, they'll prioritize their Active Duty to heavy and rapid reaction elements and leave the SBCTs to the ARNG.

With the inclusion of an SBCT in the heavy division, they'll continue to operate as an IBCT(mech) basically providing an armoured division with a strong infantry component. It's a lot easier to convert an ARNG IBCT (of which they have many) to an SBCT as most of the skill sets are the same; basic infantry who fight dismounted. All that's needed is to train the driver/crew commander portion of the team. The more you up-gun the Stryker into a Dragoon and other variants, the more you risk having the SBCT considered as an ABCT(light) rather than an IBCT(mech). That's not a good thing, IMHO. Especially in the hands of the ARNG.

🍻
 
XVIII ABN Corps is our global QRF.
It does now have Stryker Brigades as part of it. But they arrive after the light fighters.

Good to know.

Frankly I suspect we will see less and less Active Duty Stryker units as the years go on.
Their mobility is a fallacy, as they are neither fish nor fowl, and a result quite foul

The entire concept of the Stryker has been modified- again growing in weight and size like the CAF LAV, but the RWS being replaced by larger cal manned turrets now planned for ATGM as well.

I think your two highlighted observations are the problem. Iraq and Afghanistan turned every vehicle into an MRAP. All the vehicles seem to have been used to move troops up and down well defined, and observable routes on a regular schedule. They grew armour.

The other problem I have with the design considerations, especially in the Canadian context, is that seem to take things to extremes. We want one vehicle to do everything. Fair enough. It is a worthy goal.

But why not reduce expectations and accept common parts and running gear mounted in different hulls for different purposes? Is it right just to stick a cannon on top of an APC hull or is better to cut the hull and take advantage of the fact that the vehicle is not carrying troops to reduce its signature and weight.

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The reason the CA is mostly LI is due to the government not wanting to spend on the military.
A lot of what is posted here re eqpt are just pipe dreams.
I will take shelter now.
This.

It also doesn't help that this mindset bleeds into CS/CSS as well. Towed vs. SPH, ATGM vs SRAAW, DP vs Running Replen, Voice Comms vs Robust Data Comms....

"Well our forces are mostly LI... so why do we need XYZ?"

Self fulfilling prophecy...
 
In the US it was more a legitimate creation of a force that bridged light and medium heavy? capabilities. Medium forces are useful but need to be examined realistically as to what it is they can and cannot do. Rapid deployment is one of those. More rapid than a heavy force, yes, but nowhere near as rapid as a light force.

Don't all forces, light, medium, heavy, airborne, heliborne, cavalry, infantry and artillery need to be regularly re-examined for what they can do as the battlefield constantly changes? Not just in terms of what tools are missing but how the existing tools can be used in the current situation.
I think that you are right about less Active Duty SBCTs, but not because of their mobility issues but because the US will be less willing to involve itself in the type of failed state, counterinsurgency missions that the Stryker was contemplated for. I think, as well, that the US Army will now be reticent to give up any Active Duty heavy forces so as personnel issues come to the fore, they'll prioritize their Active Duty to heavy and rapid reaction elements and leave the SBCTs to the ARNG.

With the inclusion of an SBCT in the heavy division, they'll continue to operate as an IBCT(mech) basically providing an armoured division with a strong infantry component. It's a lot easier to convert an ARNG IBCT (of which they have many) to an SBCT as most of the skill sets are the same; basic infantry who fight dismounted. All that's needed is to train the driver/crew commander portion of the team. The more you up-gun the Stryker into a Dragoon and other variants, the more you risk having the SBCT considered as an ABCT(light) rather than an IBCT(mech). That's not a good thing, IMHO. Especially in the hands of the ARNG.

🍻

Three thumbs up here.
 
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I have long suspected that the reason the EFOGM, Netfires - with its PAMs (Precision Attack Missiles) and LAMs (Loitering Attack Missiles), and Merlin were cancelled was less about the cost of developing the technology and more about prolonging the life of the Armoured Force.

The techies were at risk, particularly with the development of the Millimeter Wave Radar seeker and cheap CPUs allowing missiles in the air to discriminate between objects on the ground, of making the killing of tanks cheap and easy.

Fortunately the Swedes had their own priorities and focused their efforts on Strix, BILL, NLAW, AT4 and CG84.

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All of which made the S-Tank less necessary.

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Add in the effectiveness of the British Brimstone, also with a discriminating MMW seeker similar to that demonstrated in the 81mm Merlin.
 
In our case during the sixties and little longer we wanted wheeled vehicles both for UN Peace Keeping (wheeled vehicles are so much more friendly and non threatening.) And for we're absolutely sure it will happen here , civil insurrection .
Looking back through all books and articles on the subject I got the distinct impression they were a fair number of people actually looking forward to this .
 
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