Immigrant groups fear dual-citizenship review

[warrickdll]

Full Canadian Citizenship, should require renouncing all other Citizenships (Full).

This must also be shown in actions: Canadians must not vote in foreign elections and must not serve in foreign militaries or as members of foreign governments.

 

[DBA]

"Multiple citizenship is growing and benefits only a portion of all Canadians sometimes at rather large expense to the public purse."

  What, exactly, does my dual citizenship cost the Canadian taxpayer?  Other than 23 years of Canadian Army paycheques, of course.

The evacuation of a large number of holders of dual citizenship from Lebanon cost a lot of money from the public purse. Make note of the word "sometimes" in my statement. Another trend is coming back to Canada for social support like welfare and medical care when things go wrong and heading back to a native country when times are good. I think dual citizenship is a fact of life these days but we should not let it be a free meal ticket on the backs of Canadian taxpayers. Most aren’t using Canadian citizenship in this way currently but the trend is starting.

 

[Kat Stevens]

The evacuation of a large number of holders of dual citizenship from Lebanon cost a lot of money from the public purse. Make note of the word "sometimes" in my statement. Another trend is coming back to Canada for social support like welfare and medical care when things go wrong and heading back to a native country when times are good. I think dual citizenship is a fact of life these days but we should not let it be a free meal ticket on the backs of Canadian taxpayers. Most aren’t using Canadian citizenship in this way currently but the trend is starting.

Their DUAL citizenship isn't what cost, it was their CANADIAN (only) citizenship that made Canada obligated to evac them.  It did not cost one dime less for a "full" (more entitled?) Canadian, than a "partial" (not so entitled?) Canadian to get out. Did Canada help to evacuate its citizens from the tsunami zone?  If so, would it have mattered what other passports were in their pockets?  After paying taxes in Canada since I was 17, I think I'd be entitled to a boat ride if the fewmets struck the oscilator in the places I find myself.  Before anyone misreads me, if you get a passport just as a get out of jail card, that's one thing.  Because I contribute to Canada every day, yet choose to retain citizenship of the land of my birth, is quite another.

 

[Kirkhill]

Hey Kat - you're heading down Heinlein's road - A citizen is a soldier and a taxpayer.  Without meeting those obligations you don't merit rights.  ;D

 

[Cardstonkid]

Taliban Jack and his merry band of dim-wits has asked the Conservatives to stop this whole review. Apparently it is stressing out immigrants! What a guy. If we cannot review the rules for entering our country because it might upset potential citizens, what does that say about the agenda of these individuals? The NDP obviously feel a Canadian citizenship is like a big UN citizenship entitling everyone from around the world the right to dip in and take what they want from Canada without any regard of contributing anything back. If immigrants really are "concerned," then there are many other more "liberal" countries more than happy to let them come there.

 

[Redeye]

Whether it's stressing out immigrants or whatever is immaterial, a discussion regarding policy on dual citizenship is effectively pointless.  I wouldn't be opposed to seeing more difficult rules for obtaining Canadian citizenship to make it less likely to become a "citizenship of convenience", but in practical terms it's basically impossible to prevent someone from holding multiple citizenships.  The reason is simple - a Canadian law has no impact on any other nation, or how it determines its citizens.  In practice renouncing citizenship of many countries is extremely difficult, and in most cases there's no real way to do so.  Ask anyone who holds American citizenship who has tried to renouce their US citizenship on permanently emigrating.

I wish there was a way to recoup some of the money pissed away on rescuing those folks from Lebanon.  In theory, I don't see why it would have been impossible to refuse to evacuate individuals who were also Lebanese citizens who could not prove residential ties to Canada.

 

[RangerRay]

I think we should only allow "dual-citizenship" for a small circle of countries.  For instance, allowing dual-citizenship for all Commonwealth nations with Queen Elizabeth II (UK, Canada, Australia, Jamaica, etc.) would makes sense since we have the same Sovereign.  Then perhaps expanding that to other allied countries that we have significant cultural and economic ties to (US, Ireland, South Africa, India, possibly France).  But I think it's asanine that we allow dual-citizenship to countries that have no relevant ties or are hostile to this country.  If they want to be Canadian citizens, lose the other citizenship.

 

[youravatar]

The aptly named "Canadians of Convinience" should all have their citizenship revoked. Honestly? They do nothing but sit around and wait for something bad to happen? You don't love Canada enough? Get out.

 

[Redeye]

I think we should only allow "dual-citizenship" for a small circle of countries.  For instance, allowing dual-citizenship for all Commonwealth nations with Queen Elizabeth II (UK, Canada, Australia, Jamaica, etc.) would makes sense since we have the same Sovereign.  Then perhaps expanding that to other allied countries that we have significant cultural and economic ties to (US, Ireland, South Africa, India, possibly France).  But I think it's asanine that we allow dual-citizenship to countries that have no relevant ties or are hostile to this country.  If they want to be Canadian citizens, lose the other citizenship.

I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, but in principle it's really possible to enforce such a law.  Dual citizenship exists and isn't really going to go away.

 

[sober_ruski]

Problem with dual citizenship is... the motherland (guess ) will give me the defaul citizenship when i go there for vacation. I left, with my parents, a year before recieving my passport at the age of 14. Now when i go back there i will be faced with a challenge such as... being drafted into the russian army  , so personally for me, question of the dual citizenship is a non-issue. I will submit papers to cancel my default Russian citizenship as soon as i know when i'm going... in a couple years.

 

[George Wallace]

Problem with dual citizenship is... the motherland (guess ) will give me the defaul citizenship when i go there for vacation. I left, with my parents, a year before recieving my passport at the age of 14. Now when i go back there i will be faced with a challenge such as... being drafted into the russian army  , so personally for me, question of the dual citizenship is a non-issue. I will submit papers to cancel my default Russian citizenship as soon as i know when i'm going... in a couple years.

As you are over the age of 18, you can (in most cases 'must') make a choice.  One of my brothers was born in France.  When he turned 18 he had to make a choice of which Citizenship he was going to take.  As he didn't want to be conscripted in to the French Armed Forces, should he ever have returned to France, he choose his Canadian Citizenship.  However, that was not the end of his problems, as was discussed in another Topic:  Military Brats Born Oversea's Not Canadian's?! Even if in a Canadian overseas hospital!?!   Beware Government Regulations.........and the lack of communication between the different Government Departments.

 

[BillN]

Speaking as an immigrant to this great country.......

My family came here 40 years ago this year from the UK.  My 4 brothers and sisters will tell you that it was the best decision my father and mother ever made, especially for we kids.  Having been back to the UK and the city of my birth to visit relatives etc, I can tell you that under no circumstance would I want to live there. 

In 1974 I took out Canadian Citizenship so I could join the Militia (as it was then called), and in 1977 I returned to the UK and served 4 years in the RAF.  It was a great time, and I certainly learned to appreciate Canada a hell of a lot more.  BUT, for my 4 years in the RAF I served as a Canadian Citizen, not British.  I even wore "Canada" flashes on my best blues    In 1981 I transferred to the CF as a Traffic Tech, along with a pile of drunken RN Submariners who were needed to man the old O Boats.

I'm very proud of the fact that I have served both of my countries.  I wouldn't have had it any other way. 

However, in 2001 I returned to the UK for a holiday and entered the country on a Canadian passport, which clearly showed my place and country of birth.  I was harassed for over 30 minutes about why I didn't have a UK passport.  The customs guy didn't get any happier when I told him that I had never held a UK passport.

My Father, although very proud to be British, was the first in our family to take out Canadian Citizenship.  I remember asking him why.  His answer is one that I think a lot of our recent immigrants should listen to.  He said that "if this country was good enough to accept me, then it is my duty to accept this county".

In 2002 I sent the UK Commonwealth and Foreign Office a registered letter totally renouncing my UK citizenship.  I have a framed copy of that letter on my office wall.

Some people may disagree with me, but I firmly believe that if you emigrate to any country, not just Canada, then dual citizenship should not be an option.  I do not understand these people that emigrate to Canada and hold on to what they left behind.  They, like my family, obviously left their country of origin to find a better life, and my friends trust me, you ain't going to find a better place than Canada to live.

Me?  I'm Canadian and when I die, I have instructions that my grave marker is to have a maple leaf on it.

Bill
Kingston

 

[medaid]

The choice shouldn't be excruciating. They came here on their own volition, didn't they? They applied for citizenship in Canada, didn't they?

Where's the problem?

If their own hellhole of a country is so great they want to keep their old citizenship and go back there until the next crisis, then they don't need Canadian citizenship. On the other hand, if they left their hellhole of a country for a valid reason, then they don't need that citizenship, do they?

I STRONGLY disagree and RESENT your comment with regards to individuals holding dual citizenships. I will not pose a question to you, and you dont have to answer this if you dont want to, but do YOU hold another citizenship? Not everyone who owns a dual citizenship comes from a 'hellhole of a country'. I hold dual citizenship, however, I wasnt born here. I am a Canadian in everyway possible. However, I am also a national of the country I came from. Canada as a country is made up of diverse people who come from all over the world, and most do still hold the citizenship of their origin country at the same time as their Canadian one. Does that make them less Canadian then you or me? They pay the same taxes, they work at some of the same jobs, and some of them may have even bled for this county... now honestly what gives you the right to belittle their country of origin? or protesting their privilige of being a Canadian citizen? By your own theory based on the probability of human stupidity, (when you made the comment of about how stupid some Lebanese were and others to go to dangerous countries when our government told them not to) does that mean we should stop rescuing mountain climbers and hikers because they were too stupid to pack properly or get better training? How about the homeless? stop caring about them why dont we? and the idiots who speed and crash and inure themselves, whould we tell our paramedics and hospital personnel to stop their care to them? STUPIDITY right?

Canada was never based on 1 culture. From the beginning it had been a mix of cultures, and now it is merely a bigger mix. Did any of the British think they were Canadian when this country first started? I dont think so...they were British foremost... Yes I will agree with some that there are freeloaders who come here to enjoy the good life and abuse the system, but there are countless honest legitimate business people, trained profesionals who come here to truely search for a good life who would rather not give up their citizenship because they have families, business ties and sorts that they will have hard time to maintain if they did give it up. There are countries with laws which PROHIBIT foreign nationals from owning businesses there... so by default, revoking their citizenship means you cut their life line. So...will YOU give them a job? give them money to survive? give them food to eat?? WILL YOU? If we did that would these people not go on wellfare? and 'ABUSE' the system?


ugh!....I'm sorry but I have a hard time sometimes when people who are 'Canadians' claims that those who have dual citizenships are unloyal and unpatriotic to our nation because they refuse to give the other one up. Dont forget, our economy is based LARGELY on trade and export...think how silly it would be if you slashed your own wrists by forcing one citizenship...some of your best business ppl right now might just up and leave. Economy...remember?

 

[sigpig]

ugh!....I'm sorry but I have a hard time sometimes when people who are 'Canadians' claims that those who have dual citizenships are unloyal and unpatriotic to our nation because they refuse to give the other one up.

Exactly. If and when I obtain my American citizenship I have no intention of giving up my Canadian citizenship and don't think I have to. I will not impose on the country I'm not living in at the moment, but I don't see any reason to give up my current citizenship.

 

[Brad Sallows]

Holding multiple citizenship doesn't make one disloyal or unpatriotic, although the real test is to ask oneself: if the nations of which I am a citizen were at war, for which would I take up arms?  If you can't say with self-honesty (those who can lie to themselves have my scorn but not my pity) that you'd go to the wall rather than fight for either against either, then obviously your loyalties must be stronger in one direction.

The real issue isn't loyalty or patriotism.  The plain fact is that people migrate for self-advantage.  In some cases, the migration is temporary - regardless whether it is measured in months or years - and the question of taking out citizenship in the host country isn't compelling except to a person who is motivated by some intangible feelings for the host country.  Leaving those exceptions aside, to seek residency and citizenship in a foreign nation is nearly always a bid to improve one's own circumstances.  So the question is prompted: what do you owe for what you receive?

Canadian citizenship is accompanied by a hefty package of privileges, which translates into hefty obligations on the part of those who pay.  At the least, it's reasonable to prevent Canadian citizenship from being used as a passport of convenience.  At the least, it's reasonable to expect each Canadian citizen to minimize the burden he might impose on others.

 

[medaid]

Holding multiple citizenship doesn't make one disloyal or unpatriotic, although the real test is to ask oneself: if the nations of which I am a citizen were at war, for which would I take up arms?  If you can't say with self-honesty (those who can lie to themselves have my scorn but not my pity) that you'd go to the wall rather than fight for either against either, then obviously your loyalties must be stronger in one direction.

The real issue isn't loyalty or patriotism.  The plain fact is that people migrate for self-advantage.  In some cases, the migration is temporary - regardless whether it is measured in months or years - and the question of taking out citizenship in the host country isn't compelling except to a person who is motivated by some intangible feelings for the host country.  Leaving those exceptions aside, to seek residency and citizenship in a foreign nation is nearly always a bid to improve one's own circumstances.  So the question is prompted: what do you owe for what you receive?

Canadian citizenship is accompanied by a hefty package of privileges, which translates into hefty obligations on the part of those who pay.  At the least, it's reasonable to prevent Canadian citizenship from being used as a passport of convenience.  At the least, it's reasonable to expect each Canadian citizen to minimize the burden he might impose on others.

Agreed on that.

 

[sober_ruski]

stuff

As i said in my post, papers to cancel my default Russian citizenship will be submitted as soon as i know that i'm going there for vacation.


On the other hand... if S really HTF, i might end up having old school friends of mine (one is a military (navy) uni in Vladivostok there right now) in my sights... or be in theirs. Kinda screwed up, eh?

 

[Kirkhill]

Sir John A. MacDonald, First Prime Minister of Canada:

"A British subject I was born. A British subject I will die."

Good enough for him. Good enough for me. 

 

[warrickdll]

Sir John A. MacDonald, First Prime Minister of Canada:

"A British subject I was born. A British subject I will die."

Good enough for him. Good enough for me. 

I assume you mean by having 1 citizenship?

 

[Kirkhill]

I assume you mean by having 1 citizenship?

Caught, dammit.  ;D