neilinkorea said:
I find it very telling how you seem to think that the only way to serve your country is to "march a mile in a soldiers boots". You seem to have a very militarycentric(if thats a word) view of things. I find many posters here do. Anyone who doesn't fall in line with the promilitary line here is blasted and then shredded for having never served. Many people serve the interests of the country, not just soldiers. School teachers, doctors, nurses, social workers, police officers, etc....Self-righteous is how you seem to think that soldiers have a monopoly on the ability to serve a nation. Many do it every day in different ways. I respectfully submit that the country would be a lot worse off if our education system or health care system dissapeared overnight, than if the armed forces did.
The soldiers didn't grant me the rights of free speech and mobility. The constitution does. Which was framed by civilians. If the civilian government wanted to repeal those rights tomorrow there isn't anything the military could do about it. In fact the military would probably be used to take those rights from me. A la the implementation of the war measures act during the October Crisis. This notion that somehow soldiers are the mighty defenders and providers of every right, privelage, and benefit that Canadians enjoy is a myth. Do they play a role, sure. But so do a lot of others.
neilinkorea,
I find it very telling that you, as a civilian believes that he knows everything about those who serves this country. I have a very centric view, surprise, surprise! I serve in the military, and in case you haven't noticed this is a forum where many military members congregate to speak and chat amongst ourselves. Have you wondered why we do so here? Why there are so many forums like these exist for many militaries around the world? I will tell you why, because of the civilian population.
You read that correctly, because of the civilian population. You are the prefect example of what I mean. You along with a few other that have already posted in this thread have proven time and time again why WE, those of us who decide to take up arms, and stand sentry for the safety of this country do not like to mingle with many of the public.
Civilians have never understood the toll of being a service member. Countless times in countless militaries where the soldiers go forth and serve in areas of operation to defend the country's welfare, its foreign policies and its interests. You want to talk about how all the other people have contributed, and how its the civilians that holds power over the Constitution and without Civilians it would have never existed?
Here are some examples of why I think you completely out of her. Without the military, albeit the British Army along with Canadian Militia during the war of 1812, there would be no Canada because we would merely be a few more states to the United States of America. Where would your civilian bureaucrats and politicians be then? Where would this Charter and Constitution be? That's right NON existent.
During the WWI the War to End All Wars, if not for Canadian efforts, France would be lost forever, along with and possibly England. Without a base of operations close to Europe or any launching point close enough to the UK without telegraphing our presence of an invasion fleet, how could we possibly have recaptured and defeated the German/Austrian military? That's right we would have a damn hard time. Where would we repatriate our Constitution from if the UK was lost?
During WWII once again without Canadian efforts, you think the landing on DDay would have been successful? You think that Canada would not have been a target once The Third Reich had established power? You think the Japanese would not have attempted an attack on Canada? No military you say? Where would your precious Constitution be then? Where would your Charter be? Answer me that!
Need any more examples? Every major conflict, every single operation that Canadians participated in prior to Confederation, The Constitution Repatriation, and now all have been built on the spilt blood of the soldiers and militiamen. Without those men whose bodies littered the battle fields of old, YOU sir, would have been able to post as you do today, on a forum whose purpose is to serve the members of the Canadian Military, current, past and future.
You would like to speak of Education do you?! The education system of today is deplorable. I think history is extremely important yet the caliber of the instructors are laughable, and if not down right criminal. The high school students of today cannot name one major Canadian victory during WWII, although YOU may not think it's important, but many of those campaigns helped SHAPE how we were viewed ARE viewed in the World stage today.
Self-righteous you say?! How many of the people you have listed would drop everything on a dime, and march to the government's orders to go and defend your rights? A policeman? No, because they are essential service. Don't get me wrong, I respect them, I have many friends who are members, but they have a different function and even if they are members of the CF, their jobs would preclude them from serving in such a capacity at the beginning. A Doctor? No, because those of us who serve and work in the Health Services know that we're short on doctors in the Forces, why? Because not many can take the job of being a military physician. Don't even get me going on social workers.... You think that because social workers exist that all things are peachy and dandy in this society? Let me re-iterate this again in case you missed it the first time. NONE of these occupations as you so know it, and are so quick to point out, WOULD EXIST AS YOU KNOW if it had NOT been the efforts of the fighting men and women of our military.
You want to talk about soldiers taking rights away? You obviously have not experienced a totalitarian state such as Pakistan, Any middle eastern country and many African ones. Your name say you're in Korea, I'm assuming that's South so the ROK right? Not North PRNK? Because if you were in the North you'd understand that you have it good here in Canada, where the soldiers defend the constitutional right of every single citizen and resident. Mine and most certainly YOURs.
You want to talk about the October Crisis? From that point right there it just OOOOZES ignorance. You know WHY the October Crisis was brought about? You know WHY the War Measures Act was brought about? The seriousness of the situation at that point in time required a serious action. A time where chaos was around every corner because, oh hold on, that's right TERRORISM was IN OUR HOMES, not on our door steps as it is now, but happening right here, right now. You think the police force could have handled patrolling the streets with limited man power? No. Not possible. Not with the limited resources at their disposal at the time. Obviously you would rather that the military NOT have been mobilized and the situation just carry on as usual. Give me a break.
It is not a myth that the soldier is the provider of every privilege, right and benefit that every Canadians enjoy even ourselves. We will bleed, be injured and even die to defend those rights, privilege and benefit that YOU and every other civilian so enjoy. Because I don't see a Social Worker in Afghanistan fighting do you? I don't see a Carpenter in Afghanistan fighting do you? I don't see an Accountant in Afghanistan fighting do YOU?! I don't see a TEACHER, a BUS DRIVER, a COMPUTER PROGRAMMER OVER THERE FIGHTING DO YOU?! If those people are there right now it is because they are part of the CF contingent that is over there. They are soldiers, servicemen and women and identify as such. Every soldier that is lost is a loss to our family. OUR FAMILY. A Family that is not welcomed in most of society because of this misguided concept YOU civilians have. No matter what we do to try and educate you, no matter what we do to help you understand, YOU the IGNORANT civilian just DOES NOT UNDERSTAND.
You believe EVERY SINGLE WORD the MSM has to say, but you doubt the words of a serving member. Why? Because you were taught to think critically through the internet, through university and through our society?! You along with many others who believe they know what is or is not in terms of the military and in terms of our sacrifice has no clue. You have something that's called the Ivory Tower syndrome. You along with many academics who believe they know just WTF is going on is doing so from afar. You think a Degree will allow you to grasp, to understand to comprehend the life of a soldier or a servicemen or women, whether it's RegF or PRes does not give you a CLUE. Even if you lived a month amongst us, it is only a month. You then return to your comfortable surroundings and never have to deal with the sand, the hardship, the constant ridicule by the public again. Yet we endure this everyday. We endure it and we carry on, and we serve proudly, and honorably in our uniforms. Uniforms that represent Canadians, YOU and ME and HER and HIM and THEM, all over the world. We are the ones that make the Maple Leaf SHINE, we are the ones that lend that helping hand when disaster strikes.
Do you?
neilinkorea said:
As for the whining. Most people dont get too upset that someone else doesn't understand their job. Not everything knows everything about the structure of provincial education departments. Teachers don't discuss it on the internet. When is the last time you heard a pipefitter lament the publics lack of knowledge of his trade? It seems a bit like whining to me. I have been known to be wrong in the past, but that is a sentiment I don't hear from many others here.
Really?! Have you spoken to a dentist or a nurse or a doc when they get off work? They whine. They whine more then you know. You hear a lawyer whine? You know what this place is? It's a community for serving member to relax and exchange ideas without being prejudiced against by the public. Where retired members stay in touch and where prospective members seek information. You bet not everyone knows the structures of a provincial education department, but do people speak poorly about teachers? Do people have negative preconceptions about teachers? Do people call teachers brain washers, hypocrites or publicly denounce them? When was the last time people protested against teachers for what they were teaching or how they were teaching? When was the last time you see someone move away from a teacher on a bus because they were sitting there? Well it happens allot to soldiers. All of the above happens allot to soldiers. Your pipe fitter analogy, fine we'll use a pipe fitter, so does any of the above happen to him/her? NO. Whining? Fine, we'll call it whining. Why don't we call it systemic profiling and discrimination by the Canadian public? You, as a civilian come to a military site where military personnel congregate to share their thoughts and YOU want to complain that WE are whining?
Get out. Go ahead. I don't care. Because you are just like every other ignorant Canadian I have ever met. I can't talk to someone like you. Someone who believes that they know what a soldier's place in society is. Someone who believes that they know how things are by reading MSM, watching movies and television.
Get out. Go ahead. You have come here to argue against us. We have never invited you here. We have not encouraged you to stay. We have defended ourselves as we do constantly in the eyes of the public, and who you represent the portion and the majority of the public that many of us detest and have given up trying to educate.
You want a fact? Here's a fact.
There is no job like the military. There is none. There hasn't been since the beginning of the first organized bodies whose only job is to defend the tribe from outside conflict. This is a job where we put up with sacrifices other are too sacred, too cowardly, too unwilling or too disgusted to do. There are things that bump you in the dead of night and we are the ones that bump back. We are it. The first and last line of defence of Canadian beliefs, foreign policies, trade policies and vision. We are your brothers, sisters, sons, daughters, cousins, mothers, fathers, grandmothers and grandfathers. WE ARE WHO WE ARE, WE ARE CANADIAN JUST LIKE YOU.
The only difference is, we have long ago accepted who we are and what we do. It's time you did too.
!
decided to stay British. 
