Hybrid Electric Vehicles

[FJAG]

I guess that I continue to be one of those dinosaurs.

In the general automotive industry my issue with battery powered vehicles is the environmental cost of producing batteries and then the end-of life disposal/recycle of batteries. At this point the cost of batteries and their production/disposal/recycle is far too high both in money and environmental impact.

To this point as well, there is the high cost/impact of energy generation to charge those batteries in the quantities needed (and anticipated). Much as the Pollyannas of the world ignore these issues in the belief that wind and solar power will look after that I tend to wonder about the life cycles and environmental effects of creating and disposing of those turbines and solar cells at the scale needed to generate the power needed. I'm a nuclear fan but that seems to be anathema to many of those pushing electrification.

It's not that we dinosaurs don't have concerns about carbon based fuels - their effect on the environment and their finite quantities - but to this point in time we do not see a comprehensive, all-encompassing electric model that is truly a net benefit on the scale required and not just a wet dream.

As for for the military. Sure. It's easy to see where the lack of noise and low heat signature is a massive advantage - but - what about the vulnerability and energy release that will invariably happen when batteries are damaged through inevitable rough handling or combat damage. More importantly, if you think that the logistical issues with providing liquid fuels to the end point users is a challenge, just wait until you try to provide electric power to thousands of widely distributed vehicles on a battlefield where power transmission lines have ceased to exist. I have yet to see a viable plan for that that doesn't include hybrid vehicles and large numbers of liquid fuel powered generators.

Talk down to us again when Doctor Emmett Brown's Mr Fusion becomes a reality.

 

[McG]

if you think that the logistical issues with providing liquid fuels to the end point users is a challenge, just wait until you try to provide electric power to thousands of widely distributed vehicles on a battlefield where …

I just finished commenting that hybrid and electric are not the same thing. We are discussing hybrid and here you attacking a strawman of pure electric vehicles. You are better than such intellectually dishonest arguments.

 

[Good2Golf]

I guess that I continue to be one of those dinosaurs.

In the general automotive industry my issue with battery powered vehicles is the environmental cost of producing batteries and then the end-of life disposal/recycle of batteries. At this point the cost of batteries and their production/disposal/recycle is far too high both in money and environmental impact.

To this point as well, there is the high cost/impact of energy generation to charge those batteries in the quantities needed (and anticipated). Much as the Pollyannas of the world ignore these issues in the belief that wind and solar power will look after that I tend to wonder about the life cycles and environmental effects of creating and disposing of those turbines and solar cells at the scale needed to generate the power needed. I'm a nuclear fan but that seems to be anathema to many of those pushing electrification.

It's not that we dinosaurs don't have concerns about carbon based fuels - their effect on the environment and their finite quantities - but to this point in time we do not see a comprehensive, all-encompassing electric model that is truly a net benefit on the scale required and not just a wet dream.

As for for the military. Sure. It's easy to see where the lack of noise and low heat signature is a massive advantage - but - what about the vulnerability and energy release that will invariably happen when batteries are damaged through inevitable rough handling or combat damage. More importantly, if you think that the logistical issues with providing liquid fuels to the end point users is a challenge, just wait until you try to provide electric power to thousands of widely distributed vehicles on a battlefield where power transmission lines have ceased to exist. I have yet to see a viable plan for that that doesn't include hybrid vehicles and large numbers of liquid fuel powered generators.

Talk down to us again when Doctor Emmett Brown's Mr Fusion becomes a reality.

The main factors vary depending on the use, but will always be some balance of:

• Power source availability
• Power source cost
• Manufacture cost
• Manufacture cleanliness
• Power use cleanliness
• Power use safety
• Power density
• Endurance
• Employment Safety
• Employment Survivability
• Maintainability
• Repower time

EVs do well on maintainability and power use cleanliness……