Home Equity Assistance & "Military Families Pushed to Financial Ruin" (Merge)

[trustnoone73]

I'm still pissed on another aspect of this.  In a "normal" year posting messages would have been out a lot sooner then they were this year and there would have been 3 to 4 months before COS to sell a home and move.

I was in your exact situation in 2012 when messages weren't cut till April.  My house was on the market 95 days before I pulled it and rented it out.  I was lucky I had enough equity to refinance and by a second house.

Depends on your market and where you're headed.  For me it was the least damaging of all other options.

 

[Petard]

The 30 day "extension" you're referring to I'm guessing is your report for duty date, and not change of strength date. For many of the same reasons you described, but the main one being the late delivery of the posting messages, and for operational reasons not being able to let the member go on an HHT, I requested a change of COS date from the gaining unit (and career manager), and COS date changed to Nov.

 

[Tibbson]

The 30 day "extension" you're referring to I'm guessing is your report for duty date, and not change of strength date. For many of the same reasons you described, but the main one being the late delivery of the posting messages, and for operational reasons not being able to let the member go on an HHT, I requested a change of COS date from the gaining unit (and career manager), and COS date changed to Nov.

Correct.  I should reread more when I'm frustrated.  My request for change of COS date was made twice actually as I have other family factors involving a disabled child but both requests were denied.  In writing I've been told both "[my] situation in regards to late posting messages is no different then anyone elses" and "[I'm] supposed to have a family care plan for such situations".  Im not looking to make money off the situation but I'm tired of losing all the time.  The attitude and changes in policy are just more reasons to rethink my future as this organization continues to slowly circle the drain.  Hell, they wont even let me draw a reasonable amount from my personal envelope to assist with the costs I'll have to take on just to support myself unaccompanied.

 

[RADOPSIGOPACCISOP]

Correct.  I should reread more when I'm frustrated.  My request for change of COS date was made twice actually as I have other family factors involving a disabled child but both requests were denied.  In writing I've been told both "[my] situation in regards to late posting messages is no different then anyone elses" and "[I'm] supposed to have a family care plan for such situations".  Im not looking to make money off the situation but I'm tired of losing all the time.  The attitude and changes in policy are just more reasons to rethink my future as this organization continues to slowly circle the drain.  Hell, they wont even let me draw a reasonable amount from my personal envelope to assist with the costs I'll have to take on just to support myself unaccompanied.

This is one of the things that pisses me off most with DND. I get that CF operations take priority. I get that we agree to put our mission first ahead of ourselves and even our subordinates. But it's with the ar***oles that take that so far that they use it as an excuse to screw over troops in situations that are absolutely not operational priority under the guise of "you're a soldier 24/7, you need to be ready for anything at a moments notice".

90% of people are and do drop everything for the CF when they are needed to. It's when they are asked to drop everything in their family life when they are not needed to is when we fail our subordinates.

The idea of pressuring soldiers to make that move in decreasing periods of time in officially undepressed depressed markets so they can rush to report to a unit that is all but shutdown on block leave. I'm lucky to have a great home situation and can move or deploy on a moments notice, but I don't pretend like my subordinates with 3 kids at home, or a sick immediate family member can change on a dime without significant personal impact.

Yes good soldiers are ready to adapt to any situation, but we don't need to constantly and ridgedly screw them over as a continuous test of that loyalty.

 

[stokerwes]

X 1000
Good Post

 

[TCM621]

Bit of thread drift but I have seen a definite trend towards late messages over the last couple years. Messages that in many cases are coming later than proscribed in orders, for no other reason than lack of organization. I recently got a TD message for a course 18 days prior to leaving even though I had been nominated for months and my ETO office was calling them weekly.

 

[Tibbson]

I didn't intend it to be a drift because my core issue is with home sales, lack of equity assistnce and the financial ruin that can bring about.  Sure, I'm unable to sell my home, I'm also unable to count on any sort of safety net that protects me AND owing to the slashing of other programs such as IR benifits or even the non-availability of single quarters I can draw upon for assistance, I'm quickly going to find myself in a situation where I still have maintain the family home AND cover an extra set of personal expences sich as food, rent over and above what DND covers and general living expenses for me to go unaccompanied...not by choice I might add.  After all the years of my career I now find myself in the situation where working for the CAF is actually costing me money.

 

[stokerwes]

Thank all the previous abusers of IR,  a good majority of them were fairly senior. I was too was forced to go on IR because of the inability to sell my home a few yeara back. I did get some money for a few months but that ended pretty quickly  I think the two  issues are closely related as a lot of people that are on IR are on IR because they cannot sell their home. I ended up losing a substantial amount of money on the sale of my home and  was unable to recieve HEA as my home was not in a depressed market even tought home prices dropped about 60k on average in that area.
The sad fact is that even after losing in court the TB is still dragging its feet.

 

[Petard]

Besides the relatively late posting messages, I've seen three people posted in last 2 years with bad guidance on what constitutes the geographical boundaries for the posting they're going to. In one case the IRP rep flatly said they didn't know, and didn't follow it up. In 2 others, the rep clearly guessed it was only the immediate vicinity of the major city of the posting. In each of these situations I provided the personnel with the actual geographical areas for the posting, which usually are quite large.

I'm not sure how they come up with these boundaries though, it almost seems arbitrary. Looking at some of the house and rent prices at the extremes of the boundaries, it looks like the intent is to provide a very broad area in which to find an affordable residence, but typically what appears to be more affordable, or more stable, also tends to be further away from where the actual place of work is, consequently adding to any commuting costs. You would almost think the real intent of such broad geographical areas is to permit a much lower average price for accommodations, which, of course, is the crux of this HEA problem

 

[Tibbson]

Well, if they were going to skew the results you just KNOW they aren't going to skew them in our favour.

 

[Ostrozac]

Besides the relatively late posting messages, I've seen three people posted in last 2 years with bad guidance on what constitutes the geographical boundaries for the posting they're going to. In one case the IRP rep flatly said they didn't know, and didn't follow it up. In 2 others, the rep clearly guessed it was only the immediate vicinity of the major city of the posting. In each of these situations I provided the personnel with the actual geographical areas for the posting, which usually are quite large.

I'm not sure how they come up with these boundaries though, it almost seems arbitrary. Looking at some of the house and rent prices at the extremes of the boundaries, it looks like the intent is to provide a very broad area in which to find an affordable residence, but typically what appears to be more affordable, or more stable, also tends to be further away from where the actual place of work is, consequently adding to any commuting costs. You would almost think the real intent of such broad geographical areas is to permit a much lower average price for accommodations, which, of course, is the crux of this HEA problem

Does an IRP rep even have any way to actually confirm the geographical boundaries? For most locations they are posted DWAN only -- does Brookfield have unrestricted access to DWAN? Making sure the member lives within geographical boundaries might be entirely a responsibility of the member and the chain of command.

But you're right about them seeming arbitrary. The boundaries for Ottawa go all the way to the US border, which does seem a little far for a daily commute. And if the idea behind limiting a member to certain boundaries is so that they can be called back to work in an emergency, that didn't seem to stop Kingston from including Wolfe Island within the boundaries, which has no bridge and a ferry which doesn't run 24/7.

 

[eliminator]

Capital Improvements

I'm interested to hear experiences with HEA and capital improvements. The IRP "agents" on my base are very nonchalant about the process. I was told to "just bring in your receipts and we'll submit the claim."  I literally have a shoebox full of home depot and contractor receipts and IRP didn't seem to see this as an issue.

Situation example. Bought for $250k, did approx $50k in renos (gutted bathrooms, kitchen, and driveway), and ultimately may have to sell for $280k since the market has dropped in my area due to multiple large employers closing their doors. (would have easily sold for $310k last year)

So, based on the HEA policy with regards to capital improvements, I may be submitting a claim for $20k ($250k + $50k - $280k).

Has anyone submitted a HEA claim to recover capital improvements? Success? How did you document your improvements?

 

[Tibbson]

Just what are we able to claim under HEA right now?  If someone bought for $220 k, was assessed as part of the IRP process at $250k and sold for $240 k can they claim the $10k "loss of equity" or are you only able to claim any amount under your original purchase price (up to the $15k limit without going higher)?  Calls to IRP go unanswered, messages are not returned and I'm not in a position to attend the office right now to force an answer.  Of course, the book isnt much help or available to me right now.

 

[Occam]

http://www.forces.gc.ca/assets/FORCES_Internet/docs/en/about-policies-standards-benefits-relocation/2009-aps-2014.pdf

See sections 8.2.10 and 8.2.13. 

 

[trustnoone73]

non-availability of single quarters I can draw upon for assistance, I'm quickly going to find myself in a situation where I still have maintain the family home AND cover an extra set of personal

This is F**Ked.  So with fair market value for rent is a one way street that affects only what is charged for PMQs?

Have you considered the free R&Q options like volunteering for perpetual base/unit duty?  The minute sheet on that memo might be interesting.  Can you have yourself arrested and put in cells for vagrancy? 

Aside from the usual cost of commuting and Tims no one should be out of pocket to go to work.

 

[McG]

Let's try not to drag this thread into either of the conversations happening here http://army.ca/forums/threads/78585.0.html or here http://army.ca/forums/threads/115780.0.html

 

[stellarpanther]

There is a policy, like it or not, that we all have to follow.

Maybe it's time the policy is changed.

 

[stellarpanther]

Because policy now dictates that PMQ rates need to match market values, more PMQ's would only alleviate the shortage of housing, but not the cost of living involved. The days of subsidized housing are over, which is one of the offsets of the increased pay rates we received.
I personally can only justify DND owned housing in a few areas. SQs on base for members attending course, or personnel on IR, (everyone else should have to live on the economy) and quarters in areas like Ottawa for people on IR, if the cost analysis made it worth while.

A lot of people including non-military people are surprised that it is no longer a perk for being in the military.  If we are going to be expected to live on the economy like civilians that perhaps we should have more of the same rights. 

 

[Tibbson]

Let's try not to drag this thread into either of the conversations happening here http://army.ca/forums/threads/78585.0.html or here http://army.ca/forums/threads/115780.0.html

Well, since I'm fine with my pay and parkings a done deal I'll not switch over.  I still feel my comments are in line with HEA and benefits,  but obviousy not in line enough for "the thread police", so I'll just end my involvement in this thread at this point.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

I still feel my comments are in line with HEA and benefits,  but obviousy not in line enough for "the thread police", so I'll just end my involvement in this thread at this point.

Quit hacking on the unpaid volunteers that spend a large part of their free time helping to keep the board running smoothly and on topic.

It's largely due to their efforts that you can even have a reasoned discussion here.