Hillier says Forces in 'war for talent' to boost ranks - CP

[Yrys]

Hillier says Forces in 'war for talent' to boost ranks

HALIFAX  -- The Canadian Forces is in a domestic "war for talent'' as it attempts to boost its ranks, Canada's top general said Friday. In an address to the Nova Scotia
legislature, Gen. Rick Hillier said the military is competing to attract a shrinking demographic of "select young people'' between the ages of 18 and 29.

"We're meeting our objectives, but this is one in which we can't let up because we need to grow the Canadian Forces,'' Hillier told the audience of politicians and military
officers.

The chief of defence staff conceded that while recruiting is a challenge, the Forces is meeting its goal of getting 7,000 people into regular units this year, with a goal in
2009 of more than 8,000. He said while plenty of potential recruits are coming forward, the military has to find ways to train them quickly enough so they can be deployed
to ships, and air and army units.

Hillier said there has been a problem finding enough competent recruits to work in a small number of advanced technical trades in the navy and air force. He said 40
positions needed to be filled in the last year but only 20 suitable candidates were found. "The numbers are tiny but they are significant in their impact,'' Hillier told
reporters later. "So we are working hard ... to get out to technical colleges and get a greater profile there.''

Briefing materials obtained by The Canadian Press last month showed that attrition levels for the military, particularly for the army, are on the rise as people choose to
retire or not renew their contracts. The attrition rate for the army is 13 per cent, or nearly double the average for all three branches of the Forces.

Hillier said the military is keenly aware of the problem. "A larger percentage of the Canadian Forces are coming to retirement age because we didn't recruit during the
late '90s. ... We've got a variety of measures to keep people for as long as we can or as long as they want to stay,'' said Hillier.

Those measures in the past have included incentives such as bonuses for re-signing. Hillier said those efforts have helped keep the overall attrition rate at around eight
per cent, something he maintains is "the envy of every single military force in the western world.''

The general, who is due to retire in July, said he remains optimistic the Canadian military will meet its goals as long as recruiters have the resources to do their jobs. He
said it was a matter of keeping a higher profile, or "shine,'' on the military.

"Keeping the Canadian Forces visible to Canadians and connected ... will enable us to recruit young Canadians,'' he said.

Comments on the article link

 

[KingKikapu]

The true irony is that despite an increase in recruiting required to counter the baby boom egress, some professions still lack the training spaces.  15 spots for ANAV DEO is kind of paltry.  I'm sure the hundreds of pilot applicants would agree.  Them's the breaks I suppose.

 

[MedTechStudent]

The military career has always had its allures as well as its deterring aspects.  Just a matter of personal choice like its always been IMO.  People that have gone to school for a long time to earn a very technical degree might not want to put themselves into harms way, and feel entitled to a nice safe high paying civilian job.  Thats their right.  It also does not help things that for the last few years there has been a bloody war going on. 

The idea of going to war is in no way as romantic or appealing as it was in say in the early 1900s or 1940s  The honor, commitment, and dedication are the same, but the politics are different, or if not different than at the least a huge recruitment roadblock.  Canada and the rest of the world has a moral debate on weather NATO should even be conducting the operations.  Just so you know I am in no way saying that Canadian Forces presence overseas is not necessary.  It just seams that ever since Operation Anaconda started this whole chain of events and military occupation overseas, its been a huge argument on whether we (NATO) should be over there.  My point is, some people might hear nothing from family and friends except how "awful we and other countries are for getting involved over there."  Complete rubbish I know, but if thats all you ever hear from people or the media then that is not a good incentive to join the military.    Politics politics politics arrrgh!

I think that recruiting will always be a problem in the CF, its just hard to attract people to the line of work.  That being said they got me didn't they? 


As I said, people in the end I think will make their own choice on what they want.  And if we can come up with a way to draw more people in who are enthusiastic about the job, then thats great!  I'll be the first to pamphlet my old high school.  ;D

Cheers!

 

[armyguy62]

I think the biggest detriment to recruiting is due to our history of  "peacekeeping". Suddenly we are in a shooting war and 99% of the Canandian population is upset because the soldiers carry weapons that actually shoot ( did they ever realize that the navy carries Harpoons, the Air force carries Sidewinders... for a reason??) Had the Canadian Armed Forces done a better job of explaining why we were in such demand as peacekeepers we might well be better served today.  Civilians need to realize that the best peacekeepers are the best soldiers.  Warring factions do NOT respect the UN flag, they do however respect well trained, well armed soldiers. Despite what most Canadians think, peacekeeping is NOT about handing out teddy bears, hugs, kisses and food parcels......

 

[aesop081]

15 spots for ANAV DEO is kind of paltry. 

Thats only DEO. More navigator candidates will come from other programs as well. Also, with newer aircraft comming online that have no navigator you have to consider that there might just be a reduced need to train people. Witht the 2 acoustic operator seats on the CP-140 being taken away from Navs, it reduces the need even further.

 

[MedTechStudent]

Warring factions do NOT respect the UN flag, they do however respect well trained, well armed soldiers.

I agree with that, only I think there is a difference between "fear" and "respect."  Like the US Military for instance, over 22 billion dollars of Spirits alone.  On top of the God knows how many more billions on everything else.  One of the best equipped militaries in the world, but they still always seam to be caught doing embarrassing things as you can see by all the "Oh look what the US Army did!" threads and articles on this site.  I don't think for them, in the eyes of the enemy at least its a matter of respect... its more like "oh  no here comes the US with their huge guns."  You can't expect enemy combatants to respect you if you keep getting caught with your hands in the cookie jar. 

I think Canada's way of doing things has given us respect, or at least a little admiration.  I travel a lot, from Jamaica to Prague and the one thing I have always loved is how much nicer people over there treat you the minute you tell them that "no no I'm Canadian not American" 

 

[daftandbarmy]

Wow, look at the comments section, it's a clusterf*** right now.

As a civilian, I'm wondering how many of those people actually did serve, and how many are pretending that they did service, and how many that are just adding gas to the fire.

One guy complains that he signed up to peacekeep, instead he finds Canada fighting for oil. What the f***?

First, the purpose of the military isn't to peacekeep. It's to fight. And, by extension, to kill if they have to.

Second, Canada is in Afghanistan, and as far as I am concerned, not too much oil in Afghanistan.

What did he expect enlisting?

If you look at the recent TV ad campaign you could say that the guy has a case for a lawsuit based on false advertising. You won't see anyone doing anything related to real warfighting in those ads.

 

[cavalryman]

I would say most of the so-called "ex-military" in the CTV.CA comments section are either posers trying to discredit the CF, or individuals who saw the military as just another "job", instead of a vocation.  Breaking news for them - you don't get rich soldiering, you don't live a comfortable life - you give up the comforts of civvie street to serve your country.  If you can't hack it, please don't let the door hit you in the a$$ on the way out.

Funny to see so many bitter folks in one thread though.. .makes me wonder how many of them are actually ex-CF members, and how many are trolls  :

 

[WannaBeFlyer]

You won't see anyone doing anything related to real warfighting in those ads.

THANK YOU! I was biting my tongue on that one.

 

[MedTechStudent]

As harsh and bleak as those comments are under the article, its just the other side to a story.  On this site, most of its members are happy active CF members, and some of us are not used to hearing or reading things like that.  I know I'm not.  But thats just how some people feel, its what they took out of the experience.  Some people up there might be lying, or just trying to get attention, but we won't ever really no so I just try try to read what they say, remember it and take it with a grain of salt.  If I think about comments like that too long then it just upsets me.  Just a shame thought, because I bet another reason people might not be looking to join up, is reading things like that.

Ps.  One guy comments that "I do not to well In school, but I'm intelligent" or something like that.  Then says "However as stated promotion does not often correspond with hardwork, intelligence and personality."    Well, if you were a "hard worker" than you probably would have done better in school don't you think?! 

Arrrgh see I'm getting mad already.  :-X

 

[KingKikapu]

Thats only DEO. More navigator candidates will come from other programs as well. Also, with newer aircraft comming online that have no navigator you have to consider that there might just be a reduced need to train people. Witht the 2 acoustic operator seats on the CP-140 being taken away from Navs, it reduces the need even further.

Yeah I know the other streams are more plentiful, but they unfortunately do not apply to my situation.  I spent many hard years getting my degree only to find out how restrictive my path choice is.  Had I the chance to do it again, I would have elected for a different route.  And yeah, there's definitely a smaller/different role for ANAVs to play these days.  I suppose my bitching has just as much to do with the lack of the well defined need for classically trained navigators as the numbers situation.  Still, I was under the impression that it was currently a red trade, and coupled with the CF recruitment expansion, you'd figure the numbers would go up and not down.  I did not know about the Aesop taking responsibility for more nav seats.  What is the current crew distribution?

 

[aesop081]

you'd figure the numbers would go up and not down.

IIRC you are correct, Anav is a "red" trade but for the life of me i cannot figure out why. CF expansion does not mean a need for greater numbers of navigator as the number of aircraft seats for them is decreasing.

  I did not know about the Aesop taking responsibility for more nav seats.  What is the current crew distribution?

The current crew config has 2 pilots, one flight engineer, 3 AES Ops (dry sensors), 2 navigators ( wet sensors) , TACNAV and NAVCOM ( both navigators by trade).


The first AES Op to go acoustics will be trained this fall and this will start the transition period where both Navs and AES Ops will man the 2 seats. Once the turnover is complete th crew will be comprised  of 2 pilots, one flight engineer, 3 AES Ops (dry sensors), 2 AES Ops (wet sensors) and 2 navigators ( TACNAV and NAVCOM)

 

[UnrulyCanuck]

I think the biggest detriment to recruiting is due to our history of  "peacekeeping". Suddenly we are in a shooting war and 99% of the Canandian population is upset because the soldiers carry weapons that actually shoot ( did they ever realize that the navy carries Harpoons, the Air force carries Sidewinders... for a reason??) Had the Canadian Armed Forces done a better job of explaining why we were in such demand as peacekeepers we might well be better served today.  Civilians need to realize that the best peacekeepers are the best soldiers.  Warring factions do NOT respect the UN flag, they do however respect well trained, well armed soldiers. Despite what most Canadians think, peacekeeping is NOT about handing out teddy bears, hugs, kisses and food parcels......

I think the misconception many Canadians think still is that Canada's military role is and always will be non-combat role. The country just can't seem to get their minds into the fact that we a military trained to fight. And there is still the idea that the Americans or the Brits will defend us if we are ever attacked. When I told co-workers that I am considering leaving my civilian job for the Air Force, their first response was "At least you're not in the US or UK military. They are getting slaughtered over there.". I even get the usual "Canada still has a military?" response too. 

 

[MedTechStudent]

"At least you're not in the US or UK military. They are getting slaughtered over there.". I even get the usual "Canada still has a military?" response too. 

Wow thats ignorant, I would hardly call 96 UK fatalities a "slaughter."  As for Canada having a military, yes indeed its not like we just "peaced out" after taking lil' old Vimy Ridge.  ;D

 

[UnrulyCanuck]

Wow thats ignorant, I would hardly call 96 UK fatalities a "slaughter."  As for Canada having a military, yes indeed its not like we just "peaced out" after taking lil' old Vimy Ridge.  ;D

The country just doesn't take its military history seriously.

 

[MedTechStudent]

And its a shame, because we're quite good at what we do.  Not me personally of course, just the forces in general.  Mr Rob Furlong  still has the World Distance Record right?  Eat your heart out UK/ USA 

 

[rmc_wannabe]

Mr Rob Furlong  still has the World Distance Record right?  Eat your heart out UK/ USA 

And sadly, that too is a point of contention with some of the Canadian population. God forbid we take pride in a well trained sniper that pulled off something spectacular.  :

I think that recruiting is going to be a hard thing for the forces in the next couple of years, because the youth waiting in the wings aren't suited for military service. I'm pretty fresh out of the meat factory (education system) and I remember seeing a lot of "instant gratification syndrome." In which, students wanted the A, the credit, and their diploma without a desire to put any effort in. Imagine that same student as a recruit wanting to be a Tank driver, but not wanting to go through BMQ? I know this is using a pretty big brush to paint with but its just an observation.

In addition, the education system it seems doesn't show the military as appealing. I remember trying to get information from my "Guidance" department and only finding blank stares and a 2001 Year in Review video. Not to mention feeling like you were "stupid" or "a failure" for not pursuing higher education.

Hopefully things improve, I'd like to think there will be another generation there when I'm no longer on the bottom rung 

 

[X-mo-1979]

And its a shame, because we're quite good at what we do.  Not me personally of course, just the forces in general.  Mr Rob Furlong  still has the World Distance Record right?  Eat your heart out UK/ USA 

"War for talent"

It's funny you brought up Mr Furlong as an example of talent.He released.

Maybe look retention of your talented.

It's the small things that add up to talented people getting out.Like clerks messing up and finding a pay check 400 dollars short,while your deployed somewhere.Or 12 months of training for a 6 month tour.Family comes ahead of the army in many cases,I personally don't agree with a year long of training away,and I don't appreciate my wife having to cope with unforeseen mishaps in my pay due to someones laziness/neglect of duty.

 

[MedTechStudent]

It's funny you brought up Mr Furlong as an example of talent.He released.

Indeed he did, but was that not due to the 4 years or scrutiny and backlash he received while the investigation into whether or not he desecrated an enemy body in the field was being conducted? 

I can somewhat understand his distain for the CF after an ordeal like that.  So you know, he is now a Police Officer in Edmonton. 

I just admire him, that he was one of the first four Canadians in during Operation Anaconda.  And he brought a certain level of global recognition to the Canadian Forces sniper training programs.

EDIT:

It's the small things that add up to talented people getting out.Like clerks messing up and finding a pay check 400 dollars short,while your deployed somewhere.Or 12 months of training for a 6 month tour.Family comes ahead of the army in many cases,I personally don't agree with a year long of training away,and I don't appreciate my wife having to cope with unforeseen mishaps in my pay due to someones laziness/neglect of duty.

I agree completely and I hope I never get caught on the short end of that administrative stick.  I know it can't be easy.

 

[X-mo-1979]

Indeed he did, but was that not due to the 4 years or scrutiny and backlash he received while the investigation into whether or not he desecrated an enemy body in the field was being conducted? 

I can somewhat understand his distain for the CF after an ordeal like that.  So you know, he is now a Police Officer in Edmonton. 

I just admire him, that he was one of the first four Canadians in during Operation Anaconda.  And he brought a certain level of global recognition to the Canadian Forces sniper training programs.

It's sad that the CF had to lose a talent like that.We have to look at retention.Peroid.Fresh blood is great,but nothing compares to the crusty Cpl's and the Snr NCO's with many years of military experience.