Helicopter/Cyclone discussion (split from HMCS Fredricton thread)

[daftandbarmy]

Is it really crappy conditions?

If 200kph winds means crappy then yes, I'd say so

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gneJVNlqVgE

I've only had to endure short hops in Arctic Norway, on sea and air, and those were 'character building'

 

[PPCLI Guy]

Someone who knows more about Sea Lift will likely correct me, but I'm pretty sure you could contract a shipping firm and put a new aircraft one on a freighter to the Med.

From Halifax, I assume it would take a week or so to get there? My  :2c:

I would think that the easiest way might be to use a Frigate?  :dunno:

 

[PuckChaser]

I would think that the easiest way might be to use a Frigate?  :dunno:

Do we have a 2nd one that's not the RDS with a crew that can sail?

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Is it really crappy conditions?

Conditions can be pretty bad, yup.  You can plan (some) for weather and deviate around localized stuff, but if you have a small gas tank, those deviations can be a bigger consideration.  Helo's also can't necessarily fly over some of the stuff, either.  Thunderstorms (CBs, cumulonimbus clouds) are bad enough....line them up into a squall line and you can be in for a bad day.  Over the G-I-UK Gap (Labrador Sea, Arctic Ocean, North Atlantic, Norwegian sea, North Sea and land masses), there are some fairly sizable expanses of land (Greenland) and water that are what I would call cold and/or extremely remote.  I would not want to transit those spaces in a small or rotary wing aircraft. 

Colder temps, sea states, SAR response times...a bunch of things I think of that make me say the effort to load it into a Globemaster would be the efficient and smart thing to do. 

There are other considerations;  wear/tear on the airframe and YHR you burn off just moving it around.  Diplomatic clearances.  repair plan if/when you go unserviceable (we never carry all the possibly required parts on transits...I've waited days in locations before, for parts to be hand carried or couriered to some remote places, like Guam).

 

[dapaterson]

Wikipedia states the range of the S-92 is just under 1000km.  Sounds like even with multiple refuellings you'd need multiple crews to transit transatlantic, and stops for crew rest.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Here is the official open source information on range, etc for a CH-148. 

RCAF CH-148 Cyclone on the Technical Specification page:

Range
740 km (400 NM)

Max. Speed
287 km/h (155 knots)

 

[Sub_Guy]

Do we have a 2nd one that's not the RDS with a crew that can sail?

I think with the limited time the Freddie has left there’s no point trying to get another Cyclone to her.  Especially since they’ve ordered a “pause”.

They are less effective, but still very relevant without an organic air asset.

 

[Stoker]

I think with the limited time the Freddie has left there’s no point trying to get another Cyclone to her.  Especially since they’ve ordered a “pause”.

They are less effective, but still very relevant without an organic air asset.

I agree the entire air det left to come back to Canada a couple of days ago. Sounds like they're not replacing it.

 

[GR66]

I was fortunate enough to be able to wait along the Highway of Heroes at Brock Street in Whitby as the motorcade passed.  It was heart warming to see at least 100 people along the overpass and the side of the highway (despite construction at the bridge and all best efforts to maintain social distancing) and hearing all the passing cars and trucks honking their horns in support of the families of the fallen.  Even afterward as I drove West along the 401 after they had passed you could see the large numbers of people that came out to show their support.

Rest in Peace and God bless their families.

 

[Blackadder1916]

I would think that the easiest way might be to use a Frigate?  :dunno:

Load planning?
https://youtu.be/eE6ZlTWU994?t=846

Why go by sea when it can go by air?  It's not like it would be a first time for the CF to fly the friendly Russian/Ukrainian skies.  If they're feeling good they may even offer to share their vodka.

 

[daftandbarmy]

I was fortunate enough to be able to wait along the Highway of Heroes at Brock Street in Whitby as the motorcade passed.  It was heart warming to see at least 100 people along the overpass and the side of the highway (despite construction at the bridge and all best efforts to maintain social distancing) and hearing all the passing cars and trucks honking their horns in support of the families of the fallen.  Even afterward as I drove West along the 401 after they had passed you could see the large numbers of people that came out to show their support.

Rest in Peace and God bless their families.

Dayum, that's awesome. Go Canada!  :cdnsalute:

 

[Weinie]

Load planning?
https://youtu.be/eE6ZlTWU994?t=846

Why go by sea when it can go by air?  It's not like it would be a first time for the CF to fly the friendly Russian/Ukrainian skies.  If they're feeling good they may even offer to share their vodka.

If we are having trouble figuring out how to load them into a CF-17, can't even imagine what problems would be encountered with an Antonov, although several liberal dosages of vodka may alleviate any concerns and lead to creative solutions....not that that has ever happened.  :

 

[blacktriangle]

If we are having trouble figuring out how to load them into a CF-17, can't even imagine what problems would be encountered with an Antonov, although several liberal dosages of vodka may alleviate any concerns and lead to creative solutions....not that that has ever happened.  :

What's a CF-17?

 

[PuckChaser]

What's a CF-17?

Cargo variant of the CF-98.

 

[Weinie]

What's a CF-17?

Added an F.  You missed the point. Tie

 

[Walt]

CC-177 Globemaster III is the official designation, for the aircraft you are referring to, by the RCAF and the Canadian Armed Forces.

 

[Scoobs]

If we are going to get picky, the correct designation is CC177, i.e. there is no dash.  I just got out in January where I worked at DTAES, which is the authority for a/c designations.  Both the media and RCAF Public Affairs incorrectly use the dash.  I tried to correct them, but they literally quote each other as justification for using the dash.

 

[Good2Golf]

If we are going to get picky, the correct designation is CC177, i.e. there is no dash.  I just got out in January where I worked at DTAES, which is the authority for a/c designations.  Both the media and RCAF Public Affairs incorrectly use the dash.  I tried to correct them, but they literally quote each other as justification for using the dash.

Scoops, I have up on them years ago after trying to point out the references.  I think it was an underlying Americanization trend to use the dash, even though we maintained the triple-digit type designator.  Alas...

Regards
G2G

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

Personally, I find it sad that right at the beginning of the Cyclone era, we are already down one airframe - not to mention one crew, may they rest in peace.

But with only 28 airframes and since we are using a unique design no one else has decided to acquire, can they be replaced as more and more of them become unavailable?

I mean, would Sikorsky agree to restart the line to build one or two more at a time?

And are the ten still not "delivered" on the assembly line or just waiting for the final upgrades to spec so the line is actually already closed?

I would appreciate knowledgeable answers on these to try and map out the future of the fleet capability for an upcoming article I am working on.

P.S.: Open source only, please.

 

[Good2Golf]

OGBD, sadly this happened with the Cormorant fleet as well.  Time will tell if programmatic restrictions placed on either project by the Governments of the day had any influencing factor, either during implementation or affecting in-service support and life-cycle management.  Both projects had elements of notable delays to the acquisition of the capabilities imposed upon them.

Regards
G2G