Hamas invaded Israel 2023

[gryphonv]

https://www.met.police.uk/police-forces/metropolitan-police/areas/about-us/about-the-met/governance/

The Mayor is claiming that the Home Secretary could ban the parade if she wanted. The Home Secretary is saying she can only ban the parade if the Commissioner asks for the ban. The Commissioner is saying, in his opinion the ban is not warranted. The Commissioner reports to the Mayor.

London mayor's call for ceasefire in Gaza puts pressure on Labour leader

London Mayor Sadiq Khan called on Friday for a ceasefire in the Israel-Hamas war, going a step beyond his Labour Party's appeals for a humanitarian pause in fighting to allow aid into the Israeli-besieged Gaza Strip.

www.reuters.com

Pass the Buck. UK Version.

 

[Kirkhill]

And in Scotland

First minister Humza Yousaf has once again called for a ceasefire in Gaza after his parents-in-law managed to flee the territory and return to Scotland.

https://www.itv.com/news/2023-11-06/theyre-traumatised-humza-yousaf-calls-for-ceasefire-after-in-laws-flee-gaza

ANAS Sarwar has called for a ceasefire between Israel and Hamas, putting further pressure on Keir Starmer to call for an end to the violence.

In a video post on social media, the Scottish Labour leader said too many innocent lives have been lost in both Israel and Palestine.

Anas Sarwar calls for ceasefire between Israel and Hamas

ANAS Sarwar has called for a ceasefire between Israel and Hamas, putting further pressure on Keir Starmer to call for an end to the violence.

www.thenational.scot

Meanwhile the Labour leader in Westminster, Sir Keir Starmer who has a Jewish wife, is having difficulty keeping his party in line.

Labour ceasefire row explained as pressure builds on Starmer over Israel-Hamas war

Fifty Labour councillors quit party over Sir Keir Starmer’s stance on Israel-Hamas war

www.independent.co.uk

Keir Starmer expresses 'deep concern' for wife's family in Israel

The Labour leader also said Israel must "do everything" to rescue hostages held by Hamas

www.thejc.com

Starmer represents Holborn and St Pancras. 18 mins by taxi from Westminster.

 

[Jarnhamar]

There are a lot of people in Canada hoping that if they ignore the ugly reality in front of them, it will go away and leave them in peace.

Wait until this


Turns into this

I'm sure they'll be a lot easier to deal with than idling transport trucks.

 

[Jarnhamar]

'How dare this happen?': West Island synagogue, Jewish community centre targeted by fire bombs

'How dare this happen?': West Island synagogue, Jewish community centre targeted by firebombs

Eta Yudin, the vice-president of the Centre for Israel and Jewish Affairs — Quebec, said the firebombings happened as tensions caused by the Israel-Hamas war continue to be felt in Montreal.

montrealgazette.com

 

[lenaitch]

We had the manpower for the G20 protests.

Months in planning with gobs of overtime both on-site and for back fill. Even during the 'trucker's protest' it took several days to ramp up. That type of posture can't be sustained long term.

London Met alone has 44,000 coppers. The entire province of Ontario has ~26,200.

 

[Haggis]

Months in planning with gobs of overtime both on-site and for back fill. Even during the 'trucker's protest' it took several days to ramp up. That type of posture can't be sustained long term.

London Met alone has 44,000 coppers. The entire province of Ontario has ~26,200.

A ton of police officers were freed up to work the protests by having the CAF provide roughly 1200 troops (three task forces) for security.

 

[Czech_pivo]

It isn’t that, it is that we lack the will to use Law Enforcement to their potential in these situations.

Every major Western City has the ability to push a great deal of Law Enforcement at a crisis for a limited time.

The problem is not the lack of Law Enforcement personnel, it’s a lack of a spine of 1) Police Administrators 2) Elected Officials

It started with the lack of political will in taking down rail line blockades in Ontario, road closures in BC and Que, fishing ports in NB, etc, etc. As a result, its been compounded into what it is today.

 

[Kirkhill]

@Czech_pivo

It started with the lack of political will in taking down rail line blockades in Ontario, road closures in BC and Que, fishing ports in NB, etc, etc. As a result, its been compounded into what it is today.

Oka "began on July 11, 1990, and lasted 78 days until September 26, 1990, with two fatalities"
Ipperwash was September 4, 1995 with one fatality
Gustafsen Lake was August 18 to September 17, 1995, shots fired

Quebec Summit of the Americas Riots April 20 to April 22, 2001
Kananaskis G8 Summit June 26 and 27, 2002
Caledonia started in February 2006.
Toronto G20 Protests June 18 to June 28, 2010
Coastal Gas Link Pipeline Rail Blockades January 7 to March 2020
Truckers Covid Convoy January 22 to February 23, 2022

And then, for shitz'n'grinz

On February 24, 2022 Russia invades Ukraine and Canada's problems start fading into the background.

We have internal policing issues.
We don't seem to have a good grip on how to manage them.
The politicians are desparate not to go back to the '90's.

At the same time they seem to be challenged in hiring suitable numbers of police to manage routine policing let alone surges and both the politicians and army are unwilling to employ the army for as was done at Oka.

But what is the plan if Gaza spills over into Rosedale, Khalistan hits Brampton and Hong Kong and Taiwan affect Vancouver? Throw in a bit of Quebec sovereignty to add to the fun.

 

[Czech_pivo]

@Czech_pivo



Oka "began on July 11, 1990, and lasted 78 days until September 26, 1990, with two fatalities"
Ipperwash was September 4, 1995 with one fatality
Gustafsen Lake was August 18 to September 17, 1995, shots fired

Quebec Summit of the Americas Riots April 20 to April 22, 2001
Kananaskis G8 Summit June 26 and 27, 2002
Caledonia started in February 2006.
Toronto G20 Protests June 18 to June 28, 2010
Coastal Gas Link Pipeline Rail Blockades January 7 to March 2020
Truckers Covid Convoy January 22 to February 23, 2022

And then, for shitz'n'grinz

On February 24, 2022 Russia invades Ukraine and Canada's problems start fading into the background.

We have internal policing issues.
We don't seem to have a good grip on how to manage them.
The politicians are desparate not to go back to the '90's.

At the same time they seem to be challenged in hiring suitable numbers of police to manage routine policing let alone surges and both the politicians and army are unwilling to employ the army for as was done at Oka.

But what is the plan if Gaza spills over into Rosedale, Khalistan hits Brampton and Hong Kong and Taiwan affect Vancouver? Throw in a bit of Quebec sovereignty to add to the fun.

In all but 1 of the examples that you provided were the protests not an Indigenous or Left-Wing led event - and that one single non-Indigenous/Leftist event caused the CDN Media to go bat-shit crazy about and talk non-stop about 'racist', 'antigovernmental' and 'dangerous to the Canadian way of life'. Unreal, all the other events didn't cause this sort of outrage or chest beating.

 

[Kirkhill]

In all but 1 of the examples that you provided were the protests not an Indigenous or Left-Wing led event - and that one single non-Indigenous/Leftist event caused the CDN Media to go bat-shit crazy about and talk non-stop about 'racist', 'antigovernmental' and 'dangerous to the Canadian way of life'. Unreal, all the other events didn't cause this sort of outrage or chest beating.

But none of the others happened outside the Bytown Starbucks.

 

[brihard]

Canada has a very large physical geography and low population density. Surging and sustaining police for major cross-jurisdictional public order events isn’t easy.

Fortunately we also have a much less significant tendency for public order events to turn really violent like they more often do in Europe, and few people show up to protests in Canada with that as an intent.

Criminal offences observed within a larger public order context can be very hard to stop and act on immediately due to the cover provided by a crowd. Where a suspect can be identified, investigation can happen concurrently, with subsequent arrest as soon as it’s safe to do so. Putting surveillance up and getting them in a traffic stop the next day can be way safer for everyone than trying to pluck them from an irate crowd.

Part of succesful public order policing is giving people reasonable time and space to vent and blow off steam- if you don’t, it becomes more of a pressure cooker. The overwhelming majority of people will likely stay peaceful (if loud- but not violent), will hang out for a while and then will go home. A decision to transition from holding certain ground to making a fight of it and trying to force dispersal needs to be carefully considered so the situation isn’t made worse. Canada is likely to be staring at a very different tactical situation than, say, the UK or France.

I’m all for aggressively investigating incitement / advocation that crosses the criminal threshold, and scooping those individuals at the earliest opportunity once safe to do so. We certainly have that capability as a profession.

In this case the spillover from public order into potential national security matters will probably muddy the waters somewhat, but that can be stickhandled.

 

[daftandbarmy]

But what is the plan if Gaza spills over into Rosedale, Khalistan hits Brampton and Hong Kong and Taiwan affect Vancouver? Throw in a bit of Quebec sovereignty to add to the fun.

Dude...this is Canada:

Bring Timmies and donuts... the rioters will then be dispersed

 

[Kirkhill]

Canada has a very large physical geography and low population density. Surging and sustaining police for major cross-jurisdictional public order events isn’t easy.

Fortunately we also have a much less significant tendency for public order events to turn really violent like they more often do in Europe, and few people show up to protests in Canada with that as an intent.

Criminal offences observed within a larger public order context can be very hard to stop and act on immediately due to the cover provided by a crowd. Where a suspect can be identified, investigation can happen concurrently, with subsequent arrest as soon as it’s safe to do so. Putting surveillance up and getting them in a traffic stop the next day can be way safer for everyone than trying to pluck them from an irate crowd.

Part of succesful public order policing is giving people reasonable time and space to vent and blow off steam- if you don’t, it becomes more of a pressure cooker. The overwhelming majority of people will likely stay peaceful (if loud- but not violent), will hang out for a while and then will go home. A decision to transition from holding certain ground to making a fight of it and trying to force dispersal needs to be carefully considered so the situation isn’t made worse. Canada is likely to be staring at a very different tactical situation than, say, the UK or France.

I’m all for aggressively investigating incitement / advocation that crosses the criminal threshold, and scooping those individuals at the earliest opportunity once safe to do so. We certainly have that capability as a profession.

In this case the spillover from public order into potential national security matters will probably muddy the waters somewhat, but that can be stickhandled.

I appreciate your optimism.

 

[Kirkhill]

Canada has a very large physical geography and low population density. Surging and sustaining police for major cross-jurisdictional public order events isn’t easy.

Fortunately we also have a much less significant tendency for public order events to turn really violent like they more often do in Europe, and few people show up to protests in Canada with that as an intent.

Criminal offences observed within a larger public order context can be very hard to stop and act on immediately due to the cover provided by a crowd. Where a suspect can be identified, investigation can happen concurrently, with subsequent arrest as soon as it’s safe to do so. Putting surveillance up and getting them in a traffic stop the next day can be way safer for everyone than trying to pluck them from an irate crowd.

Part of succesful public order policing is giving people reasonable time and space to vent and blow off steam- if you don’t, it becomes more of a pressure cooker. The overwhelming majority of people will likely stay peaceful (if loud- but not violent), will hang out for a while and then will go home. A decision to transition from holding certain ground to making a fight of it and trying to force dispersal needs to be carefully considered so the situation isn’t made worse. Canada is likely to be staring at a very different tactical situation than, say, the UK or France.

I’m all for aggressively investigating incitement / advocation that crosses the criminal threshold, and scooping those individuals at the earliest opportunity once safe to do so. We certainly have that capability as a profession.

In this case the spillover from public order into potential national security matters will probably muddy the waters somewhat, but that can be stickhandled.

I think my concern is with what happens if...

I am a fan of having a large number of uniforms formed up off the pitch waiting for the next order. I feel that that presence may deter the more aggressive and encourage the more civic minded.

 

[Czech_pivo]

Canada has a very large physical geography and low population density. Surging and sustaining police for major cross-jurisdictional public order events isn’t easy.

Fortunately we also have a much less significant tendency for public order events to turn really violent like they more often do in Europe, and few people show up to protests in Canada with that as an intent.

Criminal offences observed within a larger public order context can be very hard to stop and act on immediately due to the cover provided by a crowd. Where a suspect can be identified, investigation can happen concurrently, with subsequent arrest as soon as it’s safe to do so. Putting surveillance up and getting them in a traffic stop the next day can be way safer for everyone than trying to pluck them from an irate crowd.

Part of succesful public order policing is giving people reasonable time and space to vent and blow off steam- if you don’t, it becomes more of a pressure cooker. The overwhelming majority of people will likely stay peaceful (if loud- but not violent), will hang out for a while and then will go home. A decision to transition from holding certain ground to making a fight of it and trying to force dispersal needs to be carefully considered so the situation isn’t made worse. Canada is likely to be staring at a very different tactical situation than, say, the UK or France.

I’m all for aggressively investigating incitement / advocation that crosses the criminal threshold, and scooping those individuals at the earliest opportunity once safe to do so. We certainly have that capability as a profession.

In this case the spillover from public order into potential national security matters will probably muddy the waters somewhat, but that can be stickhandled.

I've never understood why CN/CP (not sure which owns the tracks) has never bothered to acquire land north of Desoronto, ON, say 5km west and east of the place, and build new tracks that don't go through the area and remove the ability of their property being held hostage every few years. The initial costs to acquire the land might be large but for certain over the long term it would more than pay for itself. I can only speculate as to why its never happened.

 

[brihard]

I appreciate your optimism.

It’s cautious optimism, but based on a lot of years of what has and what hasn’t been seen to happen in major Canadian public order events. Obviously I could be wrong and something different could happen that breaks the mould. I hope not; I’d be in the thick of it and that would suck.

 

[The Bread Guy]

World Muslims, come on down!

Also attached in case link doesn't work.

 

[Spencer100]

Political parties around the world mostly on the left but not all are in the middle of internal crisis over this. In the US Biden waited 48 hours to issue his strong statement against Hamas. But even this late response this has very much angered the "Obama" faction. They are more pro Palestinian. Just week you are starting to calls for Biden to not run again coming from the Obama camp. Axelrod came out this weekend.

Here in Canada parties are going to make calculations too. The Jewish voting block is not big enough I fear.

Just as a personal aside. The teenagers come home with mostly pro Hamas propaganda. The teachers and their unions have picked their side. In a way I don't blame them some of area high schools over 50 percent Muslim. So play the game in hopes of the alligator eats you last.

 

[lenaitch]

@Czech_pivo



Oka "began on July 11, 1990, and lasted 78 days until September 26, 1990, with two fatalities"
Ipperwash was September 4, 1995 with one fatality
Gustafsen Lake was August 18 to September 17, 1995, shots fired

Quebec Summit of the Americas Riots April 20 to April 22, 2001
Kananaskis G8 Summit June 26 and 27, 2002
Caledonia started in February 2006.
Toronto G20 Protests June 18 to June 28, 2010
Coastal Gas Link Pipeline Rail Blockades January 7 to March 2020
Truckers Covid Convoy January 22 to February 23, 2022

And then, for shitz'n'grinz

On February 24, 2022 Russia invades Ukraine and Canada's problems start fading into the background.

We have internal policing issues.
We don't seem to have a good grip on how to manage them.
The politicians are desparate not to go back to the '90's.

At the same time they seem to be challenged in hiring suitable numbers of police to manage routine policing let alone surges and both the politicians and army are unwilling to employ the army for as was done at Oka.

But what is the plan if Gaza spills over into Rosedale, Khalistan hits Brampton and Hong Kong and Taiwan affect Vancouver? Throw in a bit of Quebec sovereignty to add to the fun.

The answer to that in cases when we get to choose the battleground - like host something - is do it in the middle of nowhere. As I recall, Kananaskis saw relatively little, and the G20 in Huntsville that paralleled the Toronto G20 saw virtually no activity. When you take away the media and potential for public disruption, they seem to lose interest.

I've never understood why CN/CP (not sure which owns the tracks) has never bothered to acquire land north of Desoronto, ON, say 5km west and east of the place, and build new tracks that don't go through the area and remove the ability of their property being held hostage every few years. The initial costs to acquire the land might be large but for certain over the long term it would more than pay for itself. I can only speculate as to why its never happened.

Money. Both are publicly traded companies and, although disrupted, survived. Imagine a shareholders meeting where you propose to spend millions of dollars for something you might use. Redundancy and disaster recovery in the corporate world have different metrics, and they read the tea leaves and determined they could weather the disruption. It's not that well known but CN ran a lot of tonnage through northern Ontario and Quebec to get around the blockade

Land acquisition costs are one thing but there is ongoing maintenance of the right-of-way, taxes, signalling, crossings, etc., etc. Railways have been aggressive in shedding redundant infrastructure for years.

Besides, what's to stop a group from simply a few kilometers. In FN terms, it may be off the reserve but still on 'traditional lands'.

There are several locations across the country where our two Class I roads come very close to each other. It's really more of a national security issue in terms of protecting the economy, but if it's a national need rather than a corporate one, the government needs to pony up. Many decry the abandonment of both lines through the Ottawa Valley, but both companies decided they didn't need them. If there was a strategic national interest, the feds could have paid them to keep one intact.

It's been a number of years but wasn't one of the main plot point in Red Storm Rising the fact that the integrity of the Soviet rail network for military movements was reliant on one single switch in the Moscow area?

 

[Colin Parkinson]

I actually support these ideas. less chance Hamas can exploit them. Plus give some relief to the civilians

Countries Consider Maritime Corridor, Floating Hospitals for Gaza at Paris Conference

World powers will meet in Paris to coordinate aid and help for the wounded in the Palestinian enclave of Gaza, with the possible creation of a maritime corridor, naval medical facilities and field hospitals to be considered.

gcaptain.com