Gays in U.S. military (merged)

[aesop081]

I seriously dont know how I will cope with this constant fear of covering myself

Do you worry right now, whenever you go somewhere out in public ?

Probably not, right ?

You could already have been in a room full of gay guys and not have known it. That possibility doesnt stop you from leaving the house does it.........

 

[armyvern]

Hello:

Dont misunderstand my post as homophobic.

I will be worried to know that the guy naked next to me is interested men. This is all about level of comfort. Also the guys who are gays will be vulnerable on field too.

Why do we as society always have to discuss gays and homosexuality? I am not concerned about who the guy is sitting next to me. But what I am concerned is that these so called gay activists force their views on the society by being constantly in news headlines. This is not acceptable. I have never heard about heterosexual activism. When a straight man fights for rights, it includes gays as well. But when gay activists fight for rights they force themselves on the society. It makes me feel that I have no choice but to accept silently what they say or do.

There is something called as work life balance and I am sure that balance exists to certain extent in any defence forces. So in my opinion, there is no need for people to know sexual orientation of their colleagues. Now the issue will be many straight guys like will feel sub conciously about presence of a gay colleague around. I seriously dont know how I will cope with this constant fear of covering myself

Oh gawd. Good question: why do we always have to discuss it?

Fact is: there are no negative implications with LGBTs serving in a military. The only issues are those "created" by those who'd profess to "not want to talk about it". Sexuality is, quite simply, a non-issue wrt someone's ability to do their damn jobs. It certainly is in this military, so claims that it will adversely affect anything are bunk --- as already demonstrated in many militarys, including Canada`s.

I will be worried to know that the guy naked next to me is interested men.

I am a girl. I am not worried/wondering if the guy or gal working next to me is checking out my ass. I have a job to do and I don't flatter myself that much. Me thinks you dost flatter yourself too much if you think you`ll be constantly needing to be covering your hiney. I certainly don't assume that because a guy likes women ... that that automatically translates into "he wants me and is going to try to screw me first chance he gets". All people have "types" that do it for them ... and I'll just take a wild guess right now that every single woman you have met has NOT thrown themselves at your feet in worship and adulation of your sexual attraction and charms;  ... why do we always need to assume that a (all) gay man would do so?

BTW, those LGBTs weren't fighting for MORE rights than you have ... they were fighting for the SAME rights you have. Funny that.

 

[Redeye]

I will be worried to know that the guy naked next to me is interested men. This is all about level of comfort. Also the guys who are gays will be vulnerable on field too.

Your post suggests you are not in the CF yet.  I don't know what you think it's like, but we generally speaking don't spend a great deal of time naked around each other.  In fact, about the only time you might is showering during courses or if you live in shacks.  Frankly, you'll see about as much nudity as you might going to a gym or playing sports.  Does the inalienable fact that some of the people you'd meet there might be homosexual bother you?

Why do we as society always have to discuss gays and homosexuality? I am not concerned about who the guy is sitting next to me. But what I am concerned is that these so called gay activists force their views on the society by being constantly in news headlines. This is not acceptable. I have never heard about heterosexual activism. When a straight man fights for rights, it includes gays as well. But when gay activists fight for rights they force themselves on the society. It makes me feel that I have no choice but to accept silently what they say or do.

What views do they "force" on society?  That they'd like to be treated like everyone else?  What "heterosexual activism" would you suggest we should see?  What struggle for equality is there?  And more importantly, what are you being "forced to accept"?  That they exist?  Does their life really have that much impact on yours?

There is something called as work life balance and I am sure that balance exists to certain extent in any defence forces. So in my opinion, there is no need for people to know sexual orientation of their colleagues. Now the issue will be many straight guys like will feel sub conciously about presence of a gay colleague around. I seriously dont know how I will cope with this constant fear of covering myself

Fact: you will meet people throughout your life in any careeer path you choose who are homosexuals.  They may or may not be "obvious" to you, they may or may not make you aware of it, because really, no one really cares all that much.  If you cannot cope with that, you're going to have some serious challenges in your life, and if you're going to be in some morbid fear at the idea of showering next to someone who might be gay, then don't go to a gym.  Don't play sports.  And don't join the military.  Shut yourself in your house where you stand no chance of having that exposure.

Or just grow up.

 

[Journeyman]

Also the guys who are gays will be vulnerable on field too.

What does this mean?



Edit: Sentence structure may not be your major issue here.

 

[The Bread Guy]

I will be worried to know that the guy naked next to me is interested men. This is all about level of comfort. Also the guys who are gays will be vulnerable on field too.

Uh, you do know that there are all sorts of rules in place to deal with BEHAVIOUR that's not on, right?  Just like if a guy hits on a woman who doesn't like the idea?  What people think doesn't really matter if their behaviour is not out of line.

Now the issue will be many straight guys like will feel sub conciously about presence of a gay colleague around. I seriously dont know how I will cope with this constant fear of covering myself

Do you really think there will be "many straight guys" worried about this?  When I was on course in the military when the earth was cooling, I had an awful lot more things to worry about than someone eyeing me up in the shower.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Hello:

Dont misunderstand my post as homophobic.

And usually when a guy at a bar says I don't wanna fight he hits you a second later.

I will be worried to know that the guy naked next to me is interested men.

I am not concerned about who the guy is sitting next to me.

So which is it?

This is all about level of comfort. Also the guys who are gays will be vulnerable on field too.

Vulnerable how?  To teasing? Vulnerable sexually?

But what I am concerned is that these so called gay activists force their views on the society by being constantly in news headlines.

Yea that's annoying.  Or how every sitcom on TV needs a token homosexual.

This is not acceptable. I have never heard about heterosexual activism. When a straight man fights for rights, it includes gays as well. But when gay activists fight for rights they force themselves on the society. It makes me feel that I have no choice but to accept silently what they say or do.

Or you could just not care.

I seriously dont know how I will cope with this constant fear

With a big flaming hug 
You should also work on not being afraid of one of your peers in a shower, as a soldier (?) you have more scary things to be 'afraid' about.

 

[Brutus]

Seeing as you shouldn't be sleeping around with your Section-mates, I don't see how orientation is an issue.

If you DO sleep with your Section-mates, I assume their orientation would have been rather clear prior to gettin' it on.

 

[Michael OLeary]

Hello:

Dont misunderstand my post as homophobic.

I will be worried to know that the guy naked next to me is interested men. This is all about level of comfort. Also the guys who are gays will be vulnerable on field too.

Why do we as society always have to discuss gays and homosexuality? I am not concerned about who the guy is sitting next to me. But what I am concerned is that these so called gay activists force their views on the society by being constantly in news headlines. This is not acceptable. I have never heard about heterosexual activism. When a straight man fights for rights, it includes gays as well. But when gay activists fight for rights they force themselves on the society. It makes me feel that I have no choice but to accept silently what they say or do.

There is something called as work life balance and I am sure that balance exists to certain extent in any defence forces. So in my opinion, there is no need for people to know sexual orientation of their colleagues. Now the issue will be many straight guys like will feel sub conciously about presence of a gay colleague around. I seriously dont know how I will cope with this constant fear of covering myself

Actually, you sound like someone who is now worried that you will be rejected by 100% of the population, instead of just 50% like you have probably been experiencing.

What makes you think a gay man is going to be attracted to you in the first place?

 

[MJP]

Actually, you sound like someone who is now worried that you will be rejected by 100% of the population, instead of just 50% like you have probably been experiencing.

FTW

 

[Pusser]

Why do we as society always have to discuss gays and homosexuality? I am not concerned about who the guy is sitting next to me. But what I am concerned is that these so called gay activists force their views on the society by being constantly in news headlines. This is not acceptable. I have never heard about heterosexual activism. When a straight man fights for rights, it includes gays as well. But when gay activists fight for rights they force themselves on the society. It makes me feel that I have no choice but to accept silently what they say or do.

There is something called as work life balance and I am sure that balance exists to certain extent in any defence forces. So in my opinion, there is no need for people to know sexual orientation of their colleagues. Now the issue will be many straight guys like will feel sub conciously about presence of a gay colleague around. I seriously dont know how I will cope with this constant fear of covering myself

Open your eyes my friend!  Heterosexual "activism' is all around us.  We just don't call it that because it's mainstream.  Look at advertising.  There are heterosexual images everywhere.  What do hot girls in bikinis have to do with the taste and quality of beer?  Yet how much beer is advertised by overweight hairy guys burping and saying, " Brand XXX gets you drunk faster than the other leading brands."  Hardly a day goes by when there's not a picture of a Kardashian flashing something in the media.

I distinctly remember the day the CANFORGEN came out telling us that homosexuals would no longer suffer any kind of discrimination in the CF.  The sun still rose, the birds still sang and we didn't suddenly see anyone skipping down the flats or "falling" down hatchways.  The reality was that we got on with it and it was second only to Y2K in the list of non-events in our history.  At the time, I remember my XO saying that it would only really hit home when we saw gay couples showing up at ship's company dances.  That didn't happen right away, but it did happen. 

As for whether a gay guy is checking me out, how is that different from a female member doing the same, or me checking out female members?  I've had the opportunity to work with some really attractive women (peers, subordinates and superiors) over the course of my career.  I've managed to restrain myself and behave professionally.  It is possible!  On a final note, consider this:  if you know full well that the woman you find attractive has zero interest in you and will reject you outright, how much effort are you going to put into trying to woo her?  It's the same thing for gay men who look at straight men.  No gay man is going to waste his time chasing a straight man, so get over it.

 

[toyotatundra]

A federal appeals court ordered the U.S. government on Wednesday to immediately cease enforcing the longstanding ban on openly gay members of the military.

In a brief two-page order, a three-judge panel of the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in San Francisco said the "don't ask, don't tell" policy must be lifted now that the Obama administration has concluded it's unconstitutional to treat gay Americans differently under the law.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2011/07/06/dont-ask-dont-tell-judges.html

 

[Delaney1986]

Indeed, they are. Are homosexuals being rounded up and taken away to be shot? sent to camps? or are they allowed to voice their opposition?

We dont allow many categories to Serve:
Overweight/Underweight
Drug Dependence
History of Psychotic Disorders
Questionable Moral Character
Sexual Perversion
History of Anti Social Behaviour
History of Venereal Disease
Person whose enlistment is not clearly consistent with interests of national security under AR 601–280
Person under civil restraint, such as confinement, parole, or probation.
Any applicant (officer and enlisted) who has been convicted of a sexually violent offense is not eligible for enlistment or appointment. Further, personnel separated as a result of the convicted sex offender policy are not eligible to reenter. There is no grandfather clause to this policy. The following offenses are covered under this policy:
1.Rape
2.Carnal Knowledge
3.Forcible sodomy
4.Sodomy of a minor
5.Conduct unbecoming an officer (involving any sexually violent offense, a criminal offense of a sexual nature against a minor or kidnapping a minor)
6.Prostitution involving a minor
7.Indecent assault
8.Assault with the intent to commit rape or sodomy
9.Indecent act with a minor
10.Indecent language to a minor
11.Kidnapping of a minor (not by a parent)
12.Pornography involving a minor
13.Conduct prejudicial to good order and discipline or assimilative crime conviction (involving any sexually violent offense or a criminal offense of a sexual nature against a minor or kidnapping of a minor)
14.Attempt to commit, conspiracy to commit, or solicitation to commit any of the offenses in 1 through 13 above
Single Parent without family care plan
Debtors
Convicts


According to DoD sources, Approximately 750 Homosexuals per year are discharged from the 4 Branches, less than a Battalion at full strength out of a  total strength of  1, 477, 896 Active Duty, and 1, 458,500 Reserve/Guard.

  I realize this is sort of old but my first reaction was "what the?!" Did you seriously just compare the exclusion of homosexuals to drug addicts, rapists, people with psychological disorders, etc?? I don't see the similarity. Those groups or persons are excluded because they can cause harm to themselves or others, have proven to be dangerous, or made poor choices. Being gay doesn't make you a danger to others, nor is it a choice. Being overweight or underweight, can be changed as can some of the other things on that list, being gay is not a choice or a lifestyle, it is who you are and certainly shouldn't exclude you from serving your country if that is what you choose to do. Being gay doesn't affect your physical or mental capability to serve your country. "Don't ask, don't tell" is homophobic fear mongering put into place by ignorant people (many of them politicians who have probably never put their lives on the line for their country). I commend the men and women who still choose to serve a country that ostrasizes them, that shows real pride and commitment to your country and a belief that things will change. It would be so much easier to shrink into the shadows and accept the ignorance of others, the fighting spirit it takes to face adversity is exactly what I would want in my armed forces.

There, that is my rant....

On the plus side, psyched about the New York court decision to legalize gay marriage!  ;D Slowly but surely...

 

[Jarnhamar]

So has the US war machine ground to a halt yet? 

Did half the armed forces up and quit?