Gays in U.S. military (merged)

[Jarnhamar]

Shoe is on the other foot. Now all the people who said gays can't openly serve because "it's the rule if you don't like it quit" are going to get told the same thing.

 

[The Bread Guy]

Good to see it's going, but it ain't gone just yet....

Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates and Navy Adm. Mike Mullen, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, welcomed the Senate’s vote today to repeal the so-called “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” law, while emphasizing that the current law and policy will remain in effect until they and President Barack Obama certify the plan to implement it.

“Once this legislation is signed into law by the president, the Department of Defense will immediately proceed with the planning necessary to carry out this change carefully and methodically, but purposefully,” Gates said in a statement released today.

The legislation specifies that the repeal will take effect only after Gates, Mullen and Obama certify that new policies and regulations to implement it are “consistent with the standards of military readiness, military effectiveness, unit cohesion and retention of the armed forces,” the secretary noted.

“As I have stated before, I will approach this process deliberately and will make such certification only after careful consultation with the military service chiefs and our combatant commanders and when I am satisfied that those conditions have been met for all the services, commands and units,” he said.

Mullen said he looks forward to working with Gates and the service chiefs and said he’s “committed to making sure that process is well-led, maintains our combat readiness and upholds our high standards." .....

More from CNN:

Although Congress has now voted to repeal the military's controversial "don't ask, don't tell" policy, it will be at least a few months before the historic change takes effect.

President Barack Obama is likely to sign the repeal this week, setting the stage to allow gay people to serve openly in the armed forces. The Pentagon, however, has an 87-page implementation plan for the repeal of "don't ask, don't tell." Over the next several weeks, military officials need to examine and rewrite a series of policies, regulations and directives related to the current law.

Once that potentially lengthy process is complete, Obama, Defense Secretary Robert Gates and Joint Chiefs Chairman Adm. Mike Mullen will each have to certify that the repeal can move ahead without negatively affecting unit cohesion and military readiness.

After the certification, another 60 days will need to pass before the repeal is officially enacted ....

 

[Redeye]

The best argument that it was time to get on with the repeal was the sheer stupidity of the arguments against repeal.

About damned time. Right on.

If they're willing and able to serve their country, let 'em. I've never been bothered by any of the homosexuals I've served with. People with obsolete mindsets will have to get with the times.

 

[TheHead]

The best argument that it was time to get on with the repeal was the sheer stupidity of the arguments against repeal.

Yes, excellent news.

 

[Jarnhamar]

The best argument that it was time to get on with the repeal was the sheer stupidity of the arguments against repeal.

What are you talking about?

"How can I fight for freedom and democracy when I'm worried my fire team partner is checking me out?!"

 

[The Bread Guy]

An intriguing counter-discussion from an interesting corner of the ring here:

Conservative groups say chaplains are likely to be the first victims of Saturday's repeal of "don't ask, don't tell."

In the aftermath of the 65-31 Senate vote that did away with the 1993 ban on open homosexuality in the armed forces, religious legal defense group Alliance Defense Fund predicts that military chaplains will be the first to feel the effects of the repeal.

"The first official casualty of this hurried vote may well be the religious freedom of chaplains and service members," said ADF Litigation Counsel Daniel Blomberg in a statement.

He noted that chaplains may feel pressured to compromise their religious beliefs in light of the new legislation.

"No Americans, and especially not our troops, should be forced to abandon their religious beliefs. We hope that our nation's leaders will work to ensure that none of our soldiers, sailors, airmen, and marines are ever made to choose between serving their country or obeying their God as result of this damaging policy decision," he added.

Retired Army Chaplain Brig. Gen. Douglas Lee acknowledged that challenging times are up ahead.

"There's going to be tensions somewhere along the road," he told The Christian Post.

Lee is one of 200 national endorsers of chaplains to the military. Chaplains must be endorsed in order to serve in the military. He also mentors and encourages serving chaplains. He fears that America's chaplains will eventually be subjected to the same restrictions as their Canadian brothers.

"In Canada, they do not allow chaplains to preach [or] teach about homosexuality," Lee said.

In the present, Lee said he is encouraging chaplains to continue preaching and teaching in boldness in the face of the “don't ask, don't tell” repeal.

"We don't despair. We know [how] it is going to end up [according to the Bible]," he shared ....

 

[chrisf]

What are you talking about?

"How can I fight for freedom and democracy when I'm worried my fire team partner is checking me out?!"

Isn't that why you lead from the front?

 

[observor 69]

Toronto Star

Don’t ask, don’t tell: U.S. rights an old wrong
December 21, 2010


For gay American troops serving their country in Afghanistan and Iraq, and sometimes dying for it, the Pentagon’s “Don’t ask, don’t tell” policy was a constant reminder of their second-class status. No longer. Soon they will be able to serve openly without fear.

Attitudes have changed for the better, and U.S. President Barack Obama has just won Senate approval for a historic emancipation reform that will scrap Bill Clinton’s much-criticized 1993 directive that allowed gays and lesbians to serve, but only if they hid their sexual orientation. Historians liken the reform to Harry Truman’s 1948 order on racial equality in the military. Today, 77 per cent of Americans welcome the change compared to just 44 per cent in 1993.

Indeed, gay friends of Maj. Alan Rogers, a war hero who was killed in Iraq in 2008, left celebratory flowers, a rainbow lei and a handwritten note on Saturday at his snow-covered grave in Arlington National Cemetery, the New York Daily News reported. The note said simply: “Alan, we did it.” Soon soldiers in the 2-million-plus U.S. military will no longer have to live a lie, to serve their country.

This will bring U.S. policy into line with many allies. And it should put to rest decades of homophobic fear-mongering about sexual misconduct, a drop in fighting morale or a plunge in voluntary enlistment. That hasn’t been the experience here.

Canada lifted restrictions on gays and lesbians serving in the military back in 1992 because they conflicted with equality guarantees in the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. There was no adverse impact. Yet 14,000 Americans have been forced out of the military since 1993 for being gay. They were victims of legalized bigotry.

The landmark vote was adroitly steered through the Senate by Harry Reid, the Democratic majority leader, who persuaded some Republicans to support the move before a new, more conservative Congress assembles in the new year. It was a moral victory for Obama that follows on other worthwhile achievements, including health-care reform, new financial regulations, and economic stimulus. Despite the controversies surrounding each initiative and the “shellacking” the Democrats took in the November mid-terms when they lost control of the House and saw their Senate majority shrink, Obama has managed to be an agent of change.

How much more change he can deliver when the new Congress assembles in January with its cohort of Tea Party Republicans is an open question. That’s why Obama is moving heaven and earth this week to get the two-thirds Senate ratification vote he needs to salvage a vital new treaty with Russia to reduce strategic nuclear stockpiles. The treaty is clearly in Washington’s interest, because it provides for monitoring and verification measures that the Russians long resisted. Even so, a lot of Republicans are more intent on thwarting Obama than on securing a good deal.

That makes Obama’s “Don’t ask, don’t tell” success all the more welcome. He prevailed, and America stands taller for it.

http://www.thestar.com/printarticle/909973

 

[Redeye]

I'm confident all the same ridiculous arguments were made everywhere else... to no effect.

An intriguing counter-discussion from an interesting corner of the ring here:

 

[armyvern]

Can someone confirm for me that the Bible actually has caveat that states:

One must preach & teach about the 'evils' of homosexuality ??

Lee is one of 200 national endorsers of chaplains to the military. Chaplains must be endorsed in order to serve in the military. He also mentors and encourages serving chaplains. He fears that America's chaplains will eventually be subjected to the same restrictions as their Canadian brothers.

"In Canada, they do not allow chaplains to preach [or] teach about homosexuality," Lee said.

In the present, Lee said he is encouraging chaplains to continue preaching and teaching in boldness in the face of the “don't ask, don't tell” repeal.

"We don't despair. We know [how] it is going to end up [according to the Bible]," he shared ....

Yep, there's going to be hurdles to implementing this, but only because some want there to be hurdles; not because those hurdles are actually required, justified or warranted.

Me thinks the CF is making out just fine thank you.

 

[Jarnhamar]

The Commandant released the following message yesterday regarding recent
developments concerning repeal of DADT.

"Fidelity is the essence of the United States Marine Corps. Above all else, we
are loyal to the Constitution, our Commander in Chief, Congress, our Chain of
Command, and the American people. The House of Representatives and the Senate
have voted to repeal Title 10, US Code 654 "Policy Concerning Homosexuality in
the United States Armed Forces." As stated during my testimony before
Congress in September and again during hearings before the Senate Armed
Services Committee earlier this month, the Marine Corps will step out smartly
to faithfully implement this new policy. I, and the Sergeant Major of the
Marine Corps, will personally lead this effort, thus ensuring the respect and
dignity due all Marines. On this matter, we look forward to further
demonstrating to the American people the discipline and loyalty that have been
the hallmark of the United States Marine Corps for over 235 years."

Is this the same guy who didn't support the order to stop the gay service ban?

 

[Edward Campbell]

Is this the same guy who didn't support the order to stop the gay service ban?

Yes. And now he's doing the right thing and he's doing things right, too. He expressed his opposition earlier in the process, when comment was being sought. Now that the Congress has decided and as soon as his Commander in Chief signs he will, loyally, execute the orders to the best of his abilities.

 

[The Bread Guy]

Can someone confirm for me that the Bible actually has caveat that states:

One must preach & teach about the 'evils' of homosexuality ??

Thanks - I'm not the only one to read it that way.

Is this the same guy who didn't support the order to stop the gay service ban?

ERC is bang on...

Yes. And now he's doing the right thing and he's doing things right, too. He expressed his opposition earlier in the process, when comment was being sought. Now that the Congress has decided and as soon as his Commander in Chief signs he will, loyally, execute the orders to the best of his abilities.

Specifically, if he was quoted properly, he did also say this:

.... (Marine Corps Commandant Gen. James) Amos said he felt good about his Senate testimony, especially that he was clearly allowed to deliver his “best military advice” without pressure or rebuke, and senators thanked him afterward, even though his advice was, he said, “counter to the way some folks wanted me to go.”

The commandant said he would silence his concerns should Congress vote to repeal the law.

And what if they do?

“That’s easy. I’m going to get in step and do it smartly,” he said, leading the effort with public messages, videos and personal visits with commanders ....

.... starting with the one listed above, I guess.

 

[Haletown]

I'm thinking there is some ambitious writer knocking on doors in Hollywood trying to flog a script for "Brokeback Foxhole"

 

[Brutus]

On the topic of religious freedoms of Chaplains, I would say that every other US Serviceman/woman has an employer that tells them what to do and how to do it, and if they feel the need to preach about the evil of homosexuality, then they can certainly find work elsewhere. I doubt very much that this would be the first instance where a commander instructs his Chaplain on what he can or cannot say.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Yes. And now he's doing the right thing and he's doing things right, too. He expressed his opposition earlier in the process, when comment was being sought. Now that the Congress has decided and as soon as his Commander in Chief signs he will, loyally, execute the orders to the best of his abilities.

I agree 100%.  Great example to being loyal to ones chain of command, we've all had to enforce rules we didn't  100% agree with. 

One thing he said struck me as a little off. 
"thus ensuring the respect and dignity due all Marines." 

If that was the case then he wouldn't have opposed a rule that saw some of his marines living in a closet.  But then again, maybe he was just being 'loyal to the chain of command again'. Still, seemed like an off thing to say.

 

[Redeye]

Can someone confirm for me that the Bible actually has caveat that states:

One must preach & teach about the 'evils' of homosexuality ??

I can confidently confirm that ABSOLUTELY NOWHERE in the Bible does it say that.

One of my favourite things to ask Christians is to point me to where Jesus had anything to say about homosexuals.  They cannot, because there's nothing about it.

More amusing is the hatred amongst some of them for homosexuality is based on the book of Leviticus primarily, which lays down a lot of laws, all of which modern Christians ignore, except for the one about homosexuality.  I'm sure most of you have seen the amusing "Letter to Dr. Laura" on it.

 

[The Bread Guy]

Next step:

U.S. President Barack Obama signed a bill to repeal the U.S. military's Don't Ask, Don't Tell policy regarding homosexual soldiers on Wednesday.

President Obama, who was accompanied by Vice-President Joe Biden, received applause from a roomful of Democratic supporters and activists who fought the controversial policy which was crafted as a compromise during the Clinton administration.

"I want to thank all the patriots who were forced to hang up their uniforms because of this policy but did not stop fighting," the President remarked.

- edited to add following material from White House -

From the President's comments:

.... There can be little doubt there were gay soldiers who fought for American independence, who consecrated the ground at Gettysburg, who manned the trenches along the Western Front, who stormed the beaches of Iwo Jima.  Their names are etched into the walls of our memorials.  Their headstones dot the grounds at Arlington.

And so, as the first generation to serve openly in our Armed Forces, you will stand for all those who came before you, and you will serve as role models to all who come after.  And I know that you will fulfill this responsibility with integrity and honor, just as you have every other mission with which you’ve been charged ....

More here.

 

[Brutus]

Good. Now they can get back to the job of soldiering and stop worrying about things that are none of their business.

 

[kartik]

Hello:

Dont misunderstand my post as homophobic.

I will be worried to know that the guy naked next to me is interested men. This is all about level of comfort. Also the guys who are gays will be vulnerable on field too.

Why do we as society always have to discuss gays and homosexuality? I am not concerned about who the guy is sitting next to me. But what I am concerned is that these so called gay activists force their views on the society by being constantly in news headlines. This is not acceptable. I have never heard about heterosexual activism. When a straight man fights for rights, it includes gays as well. But when gay activists fight for rights they force themselves on the society. It makes me feel that I have no choice but to accept silently what they say or do.

There is something called as work life balance and I am sure that balance exists to certain extent in any defence forces. So in my opinion, there is no need for people to know sexual orientation of their colleagues. Now the issue will be many straight guys like will feel sub conciously about presence of a gay colleague around. I seriously dont know how I will cope with this constant fear of covering myself